Did Olshey blow it by not trading Whiteside?

[Rastapopoulos]

Of course it depends on who was available, but you know for a fact that we could've got Love. But if (as is looking more and more likely) we don't get Nurk back this season, our defense is even more atrocious. We would be like Rockets Lite, and on the hook for Love's ridiculous contract.

ON THE OTHER HAND: this looks like a wasted season, and we have to decide whether or not to let Whiteside go for nothing or be on the hook for his new contract when we already have sunk money into Nurk.

I say it would've been worth going for it: Dame is almost 30, we're not going to get a great prospect in the draft, and New Orleans, Dallas and Memphis have much better youth and OKC has a shit ton of picks plus SGA. The future looks pretty bleak.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Just wondering what Olshey gets paid to do. Are the Ariza and Skal trades worth the big Olshey bucks?

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

It’s such an easy solution. Dame is good enough to lead a team to a title... but you can’t waste $30+ mil of the salary cap on CJ, who is basically a one dimensional ISO ball scorer with no defense... it’s just not enough value for the percent of salary cap you are using... especially when you have a replacement player like Trent Jr. waiting in the wings.

 

[julius]

If we actually knew what trade offers were there, and knew the entire financial implications of said players contracts AND actually knew what the *owner* of the team wanted him to do, maybe we could make a cogent argument about it either way.

Should he have traded him? I don't know, not if it was for a worse contract that creates a lux tax increase for them.

 

[Scalma]

Isn’t this a question for July?

 

[HailBlazers]

I say it would've been worth going for it: Dame is almost 30, we're not going to get a great prospect in the draft, and New Orleans, Dallas and Memphis have much better youth and OKC has a shit ton of picks plus SGA. The future looks pretty bleak.

Going for what? Who do you say he should of went for?

 

[e_blazer]

Of course it depends on who was available, but you know for a fact that we could've got Love. But if (as is looking more and more likely) we don't get Nurk back this season, our defense is even more atrocious. We would be like Rockets Lite, and on the hook for Love's ridiculous contract.

ON THE OTHER HAND: this looks like a wasted season, and we have to decide whether or not to let Whiteside go for nothing or be on the hook for his new contract when we already have sunk money into Nurk.

I say it would've been worth going for it: Dame is almost 30, we're not going to get a great prospect in the draft, and New Orleans, Dallas and Memphis have much better youth and OKC has a shit ton of picks plus SGA. The future looks pretty bleak.

Given that we have no idea whether there were any teams calling with offers that would have made the Blazers better going forward, I think that the only answer based in reality is, "I don't know". Was there someone willing to give up a potential franchise piece for Whiteside's ending contract? I seriously doubt it. I can't imagine any GM is going to see Hassan as a needle-mover. He's a good solid player, but he's not the kind of player who you give up a star for. If the supposed trade had involved a direct swap of Whiteside for Love, I would have been heating up the tar and laying in a supply of chicken feathers for Olshey. I can't think of a single move that would have been dumber than saddling the franchise with Love's massive contract for his injury-prone declining years. I'd rather see Whiteside walk and get nothing but $27 million off the books than have acquired Love.

As far as next season goes, I think there's a reasonable shot that Whiteside re-signs here for something in the neighborhood of $12M a year. I think that he and Nurk can share the center spot. Given Nurk's history of significant injuries, I think that would be a wise move to make. If that happens, I'm happy that we didn't trade Hassan. If he walks, it makes the cap a bit more easy to manage when Collins is due a big pay raise.

 

[e_blazer]

It’s such an easy solution. Dame is good enough to lead a team to a title... but you can’t waste $30+ mil of the salary cap on CJ, who is basically a one dimensional ISO ball scorer with no defense... it’s just not enough value for the percent of salary cap you are using... especially when you have a replacement player like Trent Jr. waiting in the wings.

Just curious, I know this is your pat answer for all things relating to Olshey, but what the heck does this response about CJ have to do with a question about Whiteside?

 

[wizenheimer]

this subject has been beat to death

and, I'm always willing to take shots at Olshey because generally, he deserves them, and it's entertaining for me. But I think Olshey was likely wedged between several rocks and several hard spots at the deadline...in no particular order:

* Jody Allen insisting on tax savings this season
* Jody Allen wanting Portland to remain under the tax next season
* Jody Allen not wanting any positive assets going out
* Olshey's 2016 spending spree
* Dame and CJ's extensions
* Portland's record
* the prognosis-es for Nurk, Zach, Skal, & Hood
* Dame's historic 7-10 game stretch
* Dame wanting desperately to remain in the playoff hunt
* Dame seemingly opposed to trading away anybody
* the actual trade market for Whiteside compared to all those competing factors above

hardly any of those factors mesh well with others. Olshey was in a stew, but he was the one who pulled out the pot, added the ingredients, and turned on the burner

if Dame hadn't gone off and Portland was around 20 wins at the deadline, it would have been a good time to trade Whiteside for future assets, including cap relief, give up on the season, audition all the young talent, and essentially tank without blatantly tanking. Portland could have hoped for 9th (25% chance at top-4 pick) or 10th (14% chance) in the lottery, while playing soothing mood music to Dame

 

[Hoopguru]

this subject has been beat to death

and, I'm always willing to take shots at Olshey because generally, he deserves them, and it's entertaining for me. But I think Olshey was likely wedged between several rocks and several hard spots at the deadline...in no particular order:

* Jody Allen insisting on tax savings this season
* Jody Allen wanting Portland to remain under the tax next season
* Jody Allen not wanting any positive assets going out
* Olshey's 2016 spending spree
* Dame and CJ's extensions
* Portland's record
* the prognosis-es for Nurk, Zach, Skal, & Hood
* Dame's historic 7-10 game stretch
* Dame wanting desperately to remain in the playoff hunt
* Dame seemingly opposed to trading away anybody
* the actual trade market for Whiteside compared to all those competing factors above

hardly any of those factors mesh well with others. Olshey was in a stew, but he was the one who pulled out the pot, added the ingredients, and turned on the burner

if Dame hadn't gone off and Portland was around 20 wins at the deadline, it would have been a good time to trade Whiteside for future assets, including cap relief, give up on the season, audition all the young talent, and essentially tank without blatantly tanking. Portland could have hoped for 9th (25% chance at top-4 pick) or 10th (14% chance) in the lottery, while playing soothing mood music to Dame

I think with Dame you're all in or not and if he discerns thats not the case he'll make a statement one way or the other.
I think Dame is on a pedestal, and he's earned it and has a lot to say about the direction of the team when it comes down to brass tax.

 

[julius]

this subject has been beat to death

and, I'm always willing to take shots at Olshey because generally, he deserves them, and it's entertaining for me. But I think Olshey was likely wedged between several rocks and several hard spots at the deadline...in no particular order:

* Jody Allen insisting on tax savings this season
* Jody Allen wanting Portland to remain under the tax next season
* Jody Allen not wanting any positive assets going out
* Olshey's 2016 spending spree
* Dame and CJ's extensions
* Portland's record
* the prognosis-es for Nurk, Zach, Skal, & Hood
* Dame's historic 7-10 game stretch
* Dame wanting desperately to remain in the playoff hunt
* Dame seemingly opposed to trading away anybody
* the actual trade market for Whiteside compared to all those competing factors above

hardly any of those factors mesh well with others. Olshey was in a stew, but he was the one who pulled out the pot, added the ingredients, and turned on the burner

if Dame hadn't gone off and Portland was around 20 wins at the deadline, it would have been a good time to trade Whiteside for future assets, including cap relief, give up on the season, audition all the young talent, and essentially tank without blatantly tanking. Portland could have hoped for 9th (25% chance at top-4 pick) or 10th (14% chance) in the lottery, while playing soothing mood music to Dame

quit bringing logic and forethought into the discussion damnit! we need angry fans who don't use any of those talents.

 

[TBpup]

He did if he can't resign him or S&T him this Summer.

 

[Hoopguru]

this subject has been beat to death

and, I'm always willing to take shots at Olshey because generally, he deserves them, and it's entertaining for me. But I think Olshey was likely wedged between several rocks and several hard spots at the deadline...in no particular order:

* Jody Allen insisting on tax savings this season
* Jody Allen wanting Portland to remain under the tax next season
* Jody Allen not wanting any positive assets going out
* Olshey's 2016 spending spree
* Dame and CJ's extensions
* Portland's record
* the prognosis-es for Nurk, Zach, Skal, & Hood
* Dame's historic 7-10 game stretch
* Dame wanting desperately to remain in the playoff hunt
* Dame seemingly opposed to trading away anybody
* the actual trade market for Whiteside compared to all those competing factors above

hardly any of those factors mesh well with others. Olshey was in a stew, but he was the one who pulled out the pot, added the ingredients, and turned on the burner

if Dame hadn't gone off and Portland was around 20 wins at the deadline, it would have been a good time to trade Whiteside for future assets, including cap relief, give up on the season, audition all the young talent, and essentially tank without blatantly tanking. Portland could have hoped for 9th (25% chance at top-4 pick) or 10th (14% chance) in the lottery, while playing soothing mood music to Dame

you missed one! Jody negotiating the sale of the team?

 

[AldoTrapani]

Hell yea he did. After this season is over he’ll be useless for us

 

[Rastapopoulos]

It’s such an easy solution. Dame is good enough to lead a team to a title... but you can’t waste $30+ mil of the salary cap on CJ, who is basically a one dimensional ISO ball scorer with no defense... it’s just not enough value for the percent of salary cap you are using... especially when you have a replacement player like Trent Jr. waiting in the wings.

I don't think it IS that easy. CJ's worth to us is probably still more than what we can get for him. We've got a system that works to maximize his contributions, but he's still an undersized-not-athletic SG, so nobody's lining up to give us top 3 picks for him, especially with that contract. There's one team that might be interested - the Sixers, but all they'd offer would be Tobias Harris, who is no better but paid even more.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

this subject has been beat to death

and, I'm always willing to take shots at Olshey because generally, he deserves them, and it's entertaining for me. But I think Olshey was likely wedged between several rocks and several hard spots at the deadline...in no particular order:

* Jody Allen insisting on tax savings this season
* Jody Allen wanting Portland to remain under the tax next season
* Jody Allen not wanting any positive assets going out

Where has Jody Allen said all this on record so that I know that it isn't just speculation?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'd rather see Whiteside walk and get nothing but $27 million off the books than have acquired Love.

That is probably the best case scenario now, which means
* we're still over the cap
* we lose a guy who, for all that I don't like his game, seems to be contributing (at least, with no Nurk or Collins)
* we get nothing in return
* his contributions until the end of the season just lower the value of our pick

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Isn’t this a question for July?

Then come back in July.

 

[tester551]

I don't think it IS that easy. CJ's worth to us is probably still more than what we can get for him. We've got a system that works to maximize his contributions, but he's still an undersized-not-athletic SG, so nobody's lining up to give us top 3 picks for him, especially with that contract. There's one team that might be interested - the Sixers, but all they'd offer would be Tobias Harris, who is no better but paid even more.

I don't believe our system maximizes CJ's contributions. He needs to be put in a JJ Redick role where he's almost exclusively a spot up shooter or coming off curls. I think he'd be unbelievable in that type of role.

I'd trade him for Harris. I view both at about equivalent talents. However, I REALLY want Neil to move off this notion that CJ can play backup PG (and therefore does not provide a legitimate backup PG for the roster). I think moving CJ is necessary so that this team can evolve and move forward.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I don't believe our system maximizes CJ's contributions. He needs to be put in a JJ Redick role where he's almost exclusively a spot up shooter or coming off curls. I think he'd be unbelievable in that type of role.

I'd trade him for Harris. I view both at about equivalent talents. However, I REALLY want Neil to move off this notion that CJ can play backup PG (and therefore does not provide a legitimate backup PG for the roster). I think moving CJ is necessary so that this team can evolve and move forward.

More simply, what's a better pairing with Dame in the starting lineup, CJ/Hood, with Trent off the bench, or Trent/Harris, with Hood off the bench? I think I'd take the latter 8 days a week.

 

[James lamphear]

Given that we have no idea whether there were any teams calling with offers that would have made the Blazers better going forward, I think that the only answer based in reality is, "I don't know". Was there someone willing to give up a potential franchise piece for Whiteside's ending contract? I seriously doubt it. I can't imagine any GM is going to see Hassan as a needle-mover. He's a good solid player, but he's not the kind of player who you give up a star for. If the supposed trade had involved a direct swap of Whiteside for Love, I would have been heating up the tar and laying in a supply of chicken feathers for Olshey. I can't think of a single move that would have been dumber than saddling the franchise with Love's massive contract for his injury-prone declining years. I'd rather see Whiteside walk and get nothing but $27 million off the books than have acquired Love.

As far as next season goes, I think there's a reasonable shot that Whiteside re-signs here for something in the neighborhood of $12M a year. I think that he and Nurk can share the center spot. Given Nurk's history of significant injuries, I think that would be a wise move to make. If that happens, I'm happy that we didn't trade Hassan. If he walks, it makes the cap a bit more easy to manage when Collins is due a big pay raise.

I woul like to see them sign Whiteside and just use Zach small ball center. Do I really care who start between Nurk and Whiteside due to they both have there strengths and weakness. To be able to even consider to win a championship players have throw there ego to the side.

 

[hoopsjock]

I woul like to see them sign Whiteside and just use Zach small ball center. Do I really care who start between Nurk and Whiteside due to they both have there strengths and weakness. To be able to even consider to win a championship players have throw there ego to the side.

How would Zach get minutes at small ball center if Whiteside and Nurk are on the team and healthy?

This is why I've never like this idea.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

How would Zach get minutes at small ball center if Whiteside and Nurk are on the team and healthy?

This is why I've never like this idea.

Agreed with your point, but that's still a big if.

 

[wizenheimer]

Where has Jody Allen said all this on record so that I know that it isn't just speculation?

did you notice I said those bullet points were "likely". Never said there was certainty

but we do have what Portland did at the trade deadline, and what Olshey explicitly said about it. He said they deliberately went after those savings, and there was pretty clear reporting JA didn't want to send out picks to save money. All that's left is to see if Portland pays tax next season. My bet is no way

 

[James lamphear]

How would Zach get minutes at small ball center if Whiteside and Nurk are on the team and healthy?

This is why I've never like this idea.

Real simple it more when the other team go small or they have stretch 5. We know that Nurk or Whiteside can't guard the premeter.

 

[hoopsjock]

Real simple it more when the other team go small or they have stretch 5. We know that Nurk or Whiteside can't guard the premeter.

So just to be clear you not only want to keep Whiteside and Nurk but you want to play them EVEN LESS than the 24 minutes a game they could only play?

C'mon man.

 

[BonesJones]

It’s such an easy solution. Dame is good enough to lead a team to a title... but you can’t waste $30+ mil of the salary cap on CJ, who is basically a one dimensional ISO ball scorer with no defense... it’s just not enough value for the percent of salary cap you are using... especially when you have a replacement player like Trent Jr. waiting in the wings.

This threads about Whiteside, but of course it'll be another CJ-bashing thread.

 

[Hobbesarable]

Of course it depends on who was available, but you know for a fact that we could've got Love. But if (as is looking more and more likely) we don't get Nurk back this season, our defense is even more atrocious. We would be like Rockets Lite, and on the hook for Love's ridiculous contract.

ON THE OTHER HAND: this looks like a wasted season, and we have to decide whether or not to let Whiteside go for nothing or be on the hook for his new contract when we already have sunk money into Nurk.

I say it would've been worth going for it: Dame is almost 30, we're not going to get a great prospect in the draft, and New Orleans, Dallas and Memphis have much better youth and OKC has a shit ton of picks plus SGA. The future looks pretty bleak.

Whiteside for Love?

I'm glad we avoided that albatross.

 

[BonesJones]

More simply, what's a better pairing with Dame in the starting lineup, CJ/Hood, with Trent off the bench, or Trent/Harris, with Hood off the bench? I think I'd take the latter 8 days a week.

Tobias is better as a 4 over the 3.

 

[BonesJones]

this subject has been beat to death

and, I'm always willing to take shots at Olshey because generally, he deserves them, and it's entertaining for me. But I think Olshey was likely wedged between several rocks and several hard spots at the deadline...in no particular order:

* Jody Allen insisting on tax savings this season
* Jody Allen wanting Portland to remain under the tax next season
* Jody Allen not wanting any positive assets going out
* Olshey's 2016 spending spree
* Dame and CJ's extensions
* Portland's record
* the prognosis-es for Nurk, Zach, Skal, & Hood
* Dame's historic 7-10 game stretch
* Dame wanting desperately to remain in the playoff hunt
* Dame seemingly opposed to trading away anybody
* the actual trade market for Whiteside compared to all those competing factors above

hardly any of those factors mesh well with others. Olshey was in a stew, but he was the one who pulled out the pot, added the ingredients, and turned on the burner

if Dame hadn't gone off and Portland was around 20 wins at the deadline, it would have been a good time to trade Whiteside for future assets, including cap relief, give up on the season, audition all the young talent, and essentially tank without blatantly tanking. Portland could have hoped for 9th (25% chance at top-4 pick) or 10th (14% chance) in the lottery, while playing soothing mood music to Dame

Olsheybwill always have edcuses for inactivity that people will be able to drudge up like this, and therefore, we'll always be inactive.