Did Pat Connaughton make his case for being one of the untouchables?

[Po'sFinest]

Lillard, too. He had zero points and no assists tonight. Talk about feast or famine...

BNM

He was resting he didn't play

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Pat Connaughton untouchable?
Only here in this forum would you ever read something this crazy.

 

[Pinwheel1]

PC made a case in this game and the others he has most recently played in that he can stick in the NBA. Before this year that was doubtful.

As for Layman, I would not give up on him just yet. We (or someone else) will know much more by this time next year. Granted his shooting percentage has been poor but he has such a sweet shot and he seems to be able to get a good look rather easily. (Decent handles and quick hops) Way too early to tell for this guy IMO.

 

[HailBlazers]

Pat Connaughton untouchable?
Only here in this forum would you ever read something this crazy.

Trolls come in many forms.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Trolls come in many forms.

 

[blue9]

Man, BGD with the mockery. Good job, BGD! Good job!

Some of you need to retune your sarcasm/mockery detectors. And give BGD a bit more credit/respect. Who is the real fool here, the one that says something foolish or the one who takes it seriously?

 

[BBert]

Layman is so smooth. But that shot. Great form, but Oy vey. He has to be a better shooter than that. Has to be. It has to be mental at this point.

 

[blue9]

Layman is so smooth. But that shot. Great form, but Oy vey. He has to be a better shooter than that. Has to be. It has to be mental at this point.

Agreed. I think he's shooting in the high 30s by mid-season next year. Well, if he gets any sort of court time, which he probably won't.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

This post did remind me that Blazers only had 9 turnovers, pretty amazing for such an inexperienced group.

 

[blue9]

This post did remind me that Blazers only had 9 turnovers, pretty amazing for such an inexperienced group.

To be fair, a lot of those "fast breaks" should be counted as half-turnovers.

 

[0-Our!]

I agree with you here. Don't really care what the numbers are saying for one game. I am looking at overall impact. Layman has got a bunch of upside that the Blazers need. I am thinking PC will go to another team and become a very good player though. Just not enough room for him to grow here at the position he plays.

Agreed about Jake. I've always been in support of this guy!

As for PC, I've not been fooled by BGD w/ this thread. After last night I gotta say that I'm gonna give a lil' more credit vs. before to PC; I was 1 of those that didn't think he'd even b able to stay in the league, now I think he actually can become a solid bench guy (aka I'm not saying he'll become a very good player but someone will want/can use him & NOW he'll actually be able to make some meaningful contributions ).

 

[riverman]

I've got no complaints after last night...rookies did good..Layman has great timing and good form...his defense was good all night...he's just rusty...I'm impressed with Napier, Connaughton and Layman for a scrub game...first big minutes I've seen...they played defense first...Layman didn't shoot well but I'll give him credit for not giving up ....he kept taking it to the rim after his jumper was cold...gotta like that adjustment.

 

[THE HCP]

Remember the last game of the season way back when little used Jeff Pendergraph lit up the Warriors for like 28/15 on the last game of the season? Now where he at? Just enjoy a fun win and great effort from the bench guys. Props to this group, they bust their asses every day.

 

[santeesioux]

He's probably going to be playing baseball next year.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I agree with you here. Don't really care what the numbers are saying for one game. I am looking at overall impact. Layman has got a bunch of upside that the Blazers need. I am thinking PC will go to another team and become a very good player though. Just not enough room for him to grow here at the position he plays.

I agree that Connaughton will probably be gone before Layman, but it has nothing to do with "upside" or on court performance. It's all about the luxury tax. They basically signed similar contracts but Connaughton signed his a year earlier. So, Layman has a guaranteed contract for 2017-18 and Connaughton does not.

The three players on the current roster who do not have guaranteed contracts for 2017-18 are Ezili ($7,733,000, only $1,000,000 guaranteed), Connaughton ($1,471,382) and Quarterman ($1,312,611). Those are the three players most likely to be cut. Layman's $1,312,611 is guaranteed for 2017-18. So, there is no point cutting him to save money. The only way to dump his salary would be to trade him for a future 2nd round draft pick.

It sucks that this is what it will likely come down to, because I disagree about who is the better player and can have the more positive impact on the future of the team. Connaughton has been here a year longer, which helps his cause (other than the contract situation). He seems well liked by his teammates and the coaches and plays within the system. I think he could potentially develop into a much cheaper Allen Crabbe replacement. Remember, it wasn't until his 3rd year that Crabbe "broke out", which unfortunately led to that ridiculous contract. If anything, Connaughton has shown more in his first two seasons than Crabbe did.

He's a better rebounder and passer than Crabbe (or Layman), and while we hear excuses about Layman's incredibly poor shooting being caused by the fact that he doesn't get regular minutes and therefore can't establish a rhythm, Connaughton, who gets similar minutes, has no problem coming in and knocking down shots. In fact, Layman (11-46 = .239 3FG%) has attempted twice as many 3-pointers as Connaughton (12-23 = .522 3FG%), but Connaughton has made more. And, that's an important skill in a bench player, especially a deep bench player, the ability to come into a game cold and knock down shots. Other than those first 8 minutes against Golden State, Layman has not shown he has the ability to do that - quite the opposite.

Yeah, the sample sizes are small for both players, but in comparable minutes, Connaughton has outplayed Layman, and it's not really close. I'd hate to lose the better player to save $1.4 million in salary, but that's what it may come down to.

Untouchable, of course not. Cheap and serviceable, quite possibly.

BNM

 

[riverman]

Connaughton had his Luke Babbitt moment last night....I think he'll stick in the NBA. He's a way better defender and ball handler than some guys think. For a rookie....he's doing ok considering he's only really played one full game all year.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Remember the last game of the season way back when little used Jeff Pendergraph lit up the Warriors for like 28/15 on the last game of the season? Now where he at? Just enjoy a fun win and great effort from the bench guys. Props to this group, they bust their asses every day.

Yeah, but unlike Ha Seung-Jin, Pendy/Ayres stuck in the league for five more seasons after that and won a ring with the Spurs. He wasn't great, but he was a solid role player, especially those two years in San Antonio.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Connaughton had his Luke Babbitt moment last night....I think he'll stick in the NBA. He's a way better defender and ball handler than some guys think. For a rookie....he's doing ok considering he's only really played one full game all year.

He's not a rookie. This is his second season with the team.

And hey, Luke Babbitt is a starter in the NBA. That proves anything can happen.

BNM

 

[riverman]

He's not a rookie. This is his second season with the team.

BNM

I stand corrected...good catch. As to playing time, he's sort of still a rookie to me...Nurk said he felt like a rookie still....but you are correct...he's been on the bench for 2 years now.

 

[Strenuus]

He was resting he didn't play

Woooow.... you completely missed the mark there.

 

[Boob-No-More]

He was resting he didn't play

How very unWestbrook-like of him. He completely missed a chance to pad his stats in a meaningless game.

BNM

 

[Denny Crane]

We haven't seen what NO is going to do about the salary structure for next season. It's quite possible that he maneuvers us enough under the LT that keeping Pat around is viable. Or that the tax penalty for keeping him is acceptable.

I figure Pat could be a (slightly smaller) Kyle Korver type player for us or some other team. The guy seems to have an NBA quality 3pt shot.

The thing is, we've got 3x #1 picks. If we keep them, they're going to be decent cap hits in their own right. They also need roster spots, and Pat's spot is one of the more likely ones to be made available.

It wouldn't surprise me if NO traded Pat for a future 2nd.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I agree that Connaughton will probably be gone before Layman, but it has nothing to do with "upside" or on court performance. It's all about the luxury tax. They basically signed similar contracts but Connaughton signed his a year earlier. So, Layman has a guaranteed contract for 2017-18 and Connaughton does not.

The three players on the current roster who do not have guaranteed contracts for 2017-18 are Ezili ($7,733,000, only $1,000,000 guaranteed), Connaughton ($1,471,382) and Quarterman ($1,312,611). Those are the three players most likely to be cut. Layman's $1,312,611 is guaranteed for 2017-18. So, there is no point cutting him to save money. The only way to dump his salary would be to trade him for a future 2nd round draft pick.

It sucks that this is what it will likely come down to, because I disagree about who is the better player and can have the more positive impact on the future of the team. Connaughton has been here a year longer, which helps his cause (other than the contract situation). He seems well liked by his teammates and the coaches and plays within the system. I think he could potentially develop into a much cheaper Allen Crabbe replacement. Remember, it wasn't until his 3rd year that Crabbe "broke out", which unfortunately led to that ridiculous contract. If anything, Connaughton has shown more in his first two seasons than Crabbe did.

He's a better rebounder and passer than Crabbe (or Layman), and while we hear excuses about Layman's incredibly poor shooting being caused by the fact that he doesn't get regular minutes and therefore can't establish a rhythm, Connaughton, who gets similar minutes, has no problem coming in and knocking down shots. In fact, Layman (11-46 = .239 3FG%) has attempted twice as many 3-pointers as Connaughton (12-23 = .522 3FG%), but Connaughton has made more. And, that's an important skill in a bench player, especially a deep bench player, the ability to come into a game cold and knock down shots. Other than those first 8 minutes against Golden State, Layman has not shown he has the ability to do that - quite the opposite.

Yeah, the sample sizes are small for both players, but in comparable minutes, Connaughton has outplayed Layman, and it's not really close. I'd hate to lose the better player to save $1.4 million in salary, but that's what it may come down to.

Untouchable, of course not. Cheap and serviceable, quite possibly.

BNM

Thanks for expanding on this. This is what I've been trying to say for a while now - PC, TQ, and FE will be gone... we have 3 1st rounders.

 

[BBert]

We haven't seen what NO is going to do about the salary structure for next season. It's quite possible that he maneuvers us enough under the LT that keeping Pat around is viable. Or that the tax penalty for keeping him is acceptable.

I figure Pat could be a (slightly smaller) Kyle Korver type player for us or some other team. The guy seems to have an NBA quality 3pt shot.

The thing is, we've got 3x #1 picks. If we keep them, they're going to be decent cap hits in their own right. They also need roster spots, and Pat's spot is one of the more likely ones to be made available.

It wouldn't surprise me if NO traded Pat for a future 2nd.

Pat has an NBA three point shot, NBA hops, and he's a decent ball handler.

Pat > Babbitt. And Babbitt is still playing.

If Pat isn't on our bench next season, I hope we at least trade him for another asset.

 

[Boob-No-More]

We haven't seen what NO is going to do about the salary structure for next season. It's quite possible that he maneuvers us enough under the LT that keeping Pat around is viable. Or that the tax penalty for keeping him is acceptable.

I figure Pat could be a (slightly smaller) Kyle Korver type player for us or some other team. The guy seems to have an NBA quality 3pt shot.

The thing is, we've got 3x #1 picks. If we keep them, they're going to be decent cap hits in their own right. They also need roster spots, and Pat's spot is one of the more likely ones to be made available.

It wouldn't surprise me if NO traded Pat for a future 2nd.

Agreed on all counts, but if it comes down to Connaughton vs. Layman, I'd keep Connaughton 10 times out of 10. We will also have two additional "floating" roster spots next year. That, plus waiving Ezeli, gives us enough roster openings to absorb our three rookies (if we keep all three picks and all three players are good enough to make the team).

And again, we have until the last day of the 2018 regular season to make any roster moves necessary to get under the tax threshold. So, we could keep both Layman and Connaughton around until the trade deadline and see how much they improve between now and then. I know I've been harping on Layman's shooting, but nobody can be this bad, He eventually has to start making some shots. So, give him (and Connaughton) another summer league, training camp and maybe even all the way up until the end of February and see who is the better player at that time.

BNM

 

[roroyo]

He was resting he didn't play

If he wants to be an AllStar he has to score DDigits even when he's resting ffs!

 

[Boob-No-More]

Thanks for expanding on this. This is what I've been trying to say for a while now - PC, TQ, and FE will be gone... we have 3 1st rounders.

We also have Ezeli's roster spot and two "floating" roster spots to absorb those three rookies.

Two-way contracts are essentially a no-brainer addition to the system, and probably should have been put in sooner. These types of deals, which Wojnarowski reports will be signed with the NBA and NBADL, would pay players based on whether or not they were in the D-League or on a call-up to their NBA team.

There would be also be 16th and 17th roster spots added for these contracts, meaning teams wouldn’t have to worry about the calculus between keeping a developing player versus a proven contributor at the end of their bench when finalizing their roster at the end of training camps.

The bolded part applies to guys like Connaughton and Layman. We wouldn't have to cut them to make room for our rookies.

The luxury tax nightmare is another issue. We need to move someone with a BIG contract.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Thanks for expanding on this. This is what I've been trying to say for a while now - PC, TQ, and FE will be gone... we have 3 1st rounders.

We also have 2 more roster spots next year than we do this year. Wouldn't be surprised if PC sticks around another year.

 

[Dougnsalem]

He's probably going to be playing baseball next year.

Here's the next big question....

Can Leonard throw a baseball??? He could be the next Randy Johnson...

(I will admit that he did have a pretty decent game last night.)

 

[Boob-No-More]

We all had a good laugh and enjoyed last night's improbable win, but I think it also may have some (minor) longer lasting impact. Yeah it was just one game, but it showed these guys they are real NBA players that can hang with a team like the Spurs.

I think it was also important for guys like Meyers, Vonleh and possibly Shabazz, that will actually see some rotation (non-garbage time) minutes, to boost their confidence and comfort level heading into the post season.

At the very least, a few guys increased their trade value, even is only slightly. After last night, I would be surprised if Shabazz Napieer doesn't show up on a few whiteboards around the league this summer as a possible cheap back up PG target.

BNM