Did Pat Connaughton make his case for being one of the untouchables?

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Holy Crap. I like Patty C alot. But untouchable?

Goodbye Felicia.....
 
BBert said:
Pat looks to be a better rebounder, and is clearly a better ball handler and passer. As much as folks complain about Crabbe's defense, he probably has the edge there, at least when he decides to crank it up. It remains to be seen if Pat is as automatic as Crabbe shooting the ball, but it sure looks like it. For a guy who never plays, it seems like Pat always looks comfortable on the floor, and he seems to have basketball smarts.

:cheers:
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I know it's a very small sample set, and the HCP will probably mock me for saying it, but Connaughton's play gives me a glimmer of hope he could eventually give us some of what both Turner and Crabbe currently give us. Everyone has noticed his ability to knock down the open 3-pointer, but he's an even better rebounder than Turner, and a very capable passer. The one area he's lacking compared to Turner is defense.

But, what gives me hope that he can perform well in a larger role is Stotts' track record for player development. OK, Meyers is the obvious exception, but look at how much all of Dame, C.J., Crabbe and now Vonleh have thrived when thrust into larger roles. Many players see their production tank when their minutes and the level of competition increases, but the exact opposite has been true for the 4 players I mentioned.

Think about it, Aldridge leaves (and Lopez, Matthews and Batum) and Dame becomes the clear No. 1 option and carries the team to the playoffs, exceeding all expectations. He took on a larger role and fucking owned it.

C.J. goes from a bench player averaging 6.8 ppg to averaging 20.8 pp and unanimous MIP. It wasn't just a case of him getting more minutes. Sure his minutes doubled, but his production tripled and his efficiency improved while playing against better competition. That's true improvement.

From years 2 to 3, Crabbe also saw his minutes double while also tripling his production with improved efficiency. He went from a guy who wasn't even part of the regular rotation to a 6th man averaging over 10 ppg. Unfortunately, that led to BRK giving him a 20x pay raise. Still, another example of a player whose production went up disproportionately with an increase in playing time and a more significant role.

And now we're starting to see the same from Vonleh. Yes, he's still a work in progress (but still only 21), but look at he pre and post all star numbers:

Vonleh_2017_Spits.png

Yes, his minutes went up by 11, but his production outstripped his increased playing time. He's now a starter getting starting minutes. Look at his improved percentages and ORtg and DRtg. He's a better player now, as a starter, than he was as a back up before the all star break. Again, that's real improvement, not just a guy getting more minutes.

We've been saying for years that Pop's system in San Antonio seems to turn everyone else's castoffs into great role players. Are we seeing a similar situation in Portland? Are guys like C.J., Crabbe and Vonleh able to move into more prominent roles without seeing their production suffer (quite the opposite). Is there something about the way this team practices and works with their bench players that prepares them to succeed when thrust into larger roles?

I'd like to hope this is a trend. Again, I know Meyers is a counter example, but I think that says more about him than our system and culture. If this is a trend, it bodes well for Connaughton and possibly Layman, as well as the three draft picks we have in the upcoming draft.

A lot of folks here have been critical of Stotts and company for not using the D League more, but given the way Dame, C.J., Crabbe, Vonleh and potentially Connughton have grown, I'm starting to agree that it's better to have more direct control over developing your young players than it is sending them off to the minors.

And that reminds me, Nurk is only 22. Holy fuck, imagine if he makes a similar jump to what C.J. did. He won't only win MIP, he'll win MVP, too.

OK, that was certainly hyperbole, but I sensed Nurk fever was starting to fade, so I brought it back.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Connaughton's play gives me a glimmer of hope he could eventually give us some of what both Turner and Crabbe currently give us
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This is really my point. The fact that he was able to play, and play well, during this two game stretch actually gives me some hope that he's not a total lost cause.
 
Natebishop3 said:
This is really my point. The fact that he was able to play, and play well, during this two game stretch actually gives me some hope that he's not a total lost cause.
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He also played decently in the handful of other games where he played at least 12 minutes. Again small sample size, but at least he hasn't totally sucked when he's been put out there.

BNM
 
Natebishop3 said:
Who are you even talking to?
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People on here that take 30 min of play and move the player in the hall of fame. This always happens on here. 1 bad game, trade em! 1 good game, he should be an allstar.
 
HCP said:
People on here that take 30 min of play and move the player in the hall of fame.
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Pretty sure no one did that, at least not in this case. The discussion, if you'd care to actually read it (I know you haven't, don't pretend like you did) is actually about Pat's potential as a possible bench player moving forward. Not one person mentioned starting him, overpaying to keep him, or nominating him for the Hall of Fame.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Pretty sure no one did that, at least not in this case. The discussion, if you'd care to actually read it (I know you haven't, don't pretend like you did) is actually about Pat's potential as a possible bench player moving forward. Not one person mentioned starting him, overpaying to keep him, or nominating him for the Hall of Fame.

BNM
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LIES!
 
HCP said:
People on here that take 30 min of play and move the player in the hall of fame. This always happens on here. 1 bad game, trade em! 1 good game, he should be an allstar.
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Except that they don't do that. Honestly, your overreaction to their overreactions is much larger than their initial overreactions. Do you apply this type of response to your day to day? Like if your kid tells you you're the best dad ever for finally letting him drive your riding mower, you just blast him for such a ridiculous statement because he hasn't met all the other dads in the world so there's no way to know, not to mention that you do so much more for him that makes you a good dad that placing that level of importance on such a miniscule event is simply insulting?
 
HCP said:
People on here that take 30 min of play and move the player in the hall of fame. This always happens on here. 1 bad game, trade em! 1 good game, he should be an allstar.
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So what you did was, read the title of the thread, ignore that it's BGD, and then apply that ridiculous logic to "people?"
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Except that they don't do that. Honestly, your overreaction to their overreactions is much larger than their initial overreactions. Do you apply this type of response to your day to day? Like if your kid tells you you're the best dad ever for finally letting him drive your riding mower, you just blast him for such a ridiculous statement because he hasn't met all the other dads in the world so there's no way to know, not to mention that you do so much more for him that makes you a good dad that placing that level of importance on such a miniscule event is simply insulting?
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ZZZZZZIIIIING!
 
HCP said:
I DO NOT FOLLOW TEENAGE GIRLS ON INSTAGRAM!!!!!!!!
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No--much like the teenage girls to whom you're being compared, you follow teenage boys on instagram.
 
If that's what teenage girls look like on Instagram, I'm glad I'm old and technology is passing me by.

BNM
 
Natebishop3 said:
Hyperbole aside, I'm wondering if Patty made a case for an increased role next season.
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That fits the same pattern as C.J. and Crabbe under Stotts. They were both guys we drafted that saw considerable increase in PT in their third seasons.

Of course, it depends on the player and the rest of the roster, but I think going into camp, Pat has a legit chance to earn an expanded role. Even if all he does is push the guys ahead of him, that's a good thing.

BNM
 
HCP said:
People on here that take 30 min of play and move the player in the hall of fame. This always happens on here. 1 bad game, trade em! 1 good game, he should be an allstar.
Click to expand...
Please tell me you didn't take BGD's troll thread seriously? I'm pretty sure I know you didn't, but if you did, I'm worried about you. FAMS!

:cheers:
 
I wonder if Pat could become a player like Deli.
 
what you guy think of this trade? crabbe for timothe luwawu-cabarrot and richaun holmes. then in a different trade, turner, leonard, ezeli, cav pick for carmelo anthony and kyle quinn.
lillard/cj
cj/timothe/pat
harkless/aminu
anthony/vonleh/holmes
nurkic/quinn/davis
i think we would get a much better starting lineup and an even more balanced bench. plus we would free so much cap space too
 
again on the serious note...what's the difference between Patty Ice this year and Crabbe 2 years ago?

Crabbe improved a bunch year three (I don't want to say anyone averaging 10ppg "made the leap") and earned himself 4/75M. I've submitted in other threads that if we had the confidence in a guy like Pat or another draft pick that we didn't give away to take over the role, it's easier to let a player walk away. But I think it does make it a bit easier to trade Crabbe this summer without having to do a wing-for-wing swap.

And maybe a higher-profile 1st this summer (Jackson?) turns out to be a better backup wing that Pat. That's a good thing.
 
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