Did the Blazers get a better haul for Dame than Utah got for Mitchell?

[Natebishop3]

Donovan Mitchell
Lauri Markkanen
Collin Sexton
Ochai Agbaji
2025 1st round pick [unprotected]
2027 1st round pick [unprotected]
2029 1st round pick [unprotected]
2026 1st round pick [UTH right to swap]
2028 1st round pick [UTH right to swap]

Damian Lillard
Deandre Ayton
Malcolm Brogdon
Robert Williams III
Toumani Camara
2024 GSW first round pick (top 4 protected)
2029 Bucks first round pick
2029 Celtics first round pick
2028 Bucks pick swap
2030 Bucks pick swap

Here are the hauls for Durant and Gobert, just for comparison. We didn't anywhere near what Brooklyn got for Durant, and the Gobert trade was in another universe, but I think we might have done better than Utah for Mitchell.

Thoughts?

Kevin Durant -
Mikal Bridges
Cameron Johnson
Jae Crowder
Four unprotected first-round draft picks (2023, 2025, 2027, 2029)
Pick swap in 2028

Rudy Gobert
Utah received
Malik Beasley
Patrick Beverley
Walker Kessler
Jarred Vanderbilt
Leandro Bolmaro,
plus unprotected first-round picks in 2023, 2025, 2027, a pick swap in 2026 and a top-five protected pick in 2029.

 

[Samuel]

Donovan Mitchell
Lauri Markkanen
Collin Sexton
Ochai Agbaji
2025 1st round pick [unprotected]
2027 1st round pick [unprotected]
2029 1st round pick [unprotected]
2026 1st round pick [UTH right to swap]
2028 1st round pick [UTH right to swap]

Damian Lillard
Deandre Ayton
Malcolm Brogdon
Robert Williams III
Toumani Camara
2024 GSW first round pick (top 4 protected)
2029 Bucks first round pick
2029 Celtics first round pick
2028 Bucks pick swap
2030 Bucks pick swap

Here are the hauls for Durant and Gobert, just for comparison. We didn't anywhere near what Brooklyn got for Durant, and the Gobert trade was in another universe, but I think we might have done better than Utah for Mitchell.

Thoughts?

Kevin Durant -
Mikal Bridges
Cameron Johnson
Jae Crowder
Four unprotected first-round draft picks (2023, 2025, 2027, 2029)
Pick swap in 2028

Rudy Gobert
Utah received
Malik Beasley
Patrick Beverley
Walker Kessler
Jarred Vanderbilt
Leandro Bolmaro,
plus unprotected first-round picks in 2023, 2025, 2027, a pick swap in 2026 and a top-five protected pick in 2029.

I think some of this is tied up on how well Ayton and RG3 do.

If RG3 returns to all-defense status and ayton makes an unlikely all-star team, that makes up for the gap in picks.

 

[blazerfan11]

Time will tell. There's the initial trade and how the trade actually affects the teams involved.

 

[perkinsfor3]

Why is Nurkic never mentioned in these "hauls", as if he didnt hold any value coming back to us?

And at first glance, I liked the Mitchell and KD hauls much better.

Also, cant really compare these straight up, as the economic situation and free agent market is now quite different from when Donovan was traded.

 

[e_blazer]

The Blazers aren’t done collecting assets until Brogdon is traded. It’s close right now between the Mitchell and Lillard hauls, but I like what the Blazers got better. That front court pair of Ayton and Williams can be amazing if healthy. Given Dame’s age and contract numbers, Cronin has made terrific moves the last few days.

 

[Strenuus]

We got a comparable haul commiserate to his contract and with the added benefit of fucking over Miami tipping the scales.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Sigh….

we sent out more than just Dame…


Why compare meals when some appetizers have been left off the table???

salaries impact things regardless of ones opinion of on court value.
To do a comparison and not list all items in and out is simply futile.
Nas might become the perfect role playing three ww have wanted or maybe Keon steps up into a solid backup pg?

Nurk might have a career year with the shooters in phoenix. Just because he isn't valued on the court here, doesn't mean he doesn't have value.
Phoenix coveted him…


@Natebishop3 Fix the OP…

 

[BBert]

We got a comparable haul commiserate to his contract and with the added benefit of fucking over Miami tipping the scales.

Miami fucked themselves over. Those douche nozzles never had the goods to get Dame and were blinded by hubris. I'm enjoying their pain very much.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

I had a Great steak last. Ight but it only came with mashed potatoes.
Ive had a lesser quality steak but still good that came with bread, veggies and dessert.

if i leave some of the stuff off the second meal, it sucked. But add them in and its a better value …

 

[JDC]

Lillard and Mitchell were comparable players in their age 24 and 25 seasons.

The fact that we got close to comparable value for 33 year old Dame is impressive in my opinion.

 

[Blazers Roy]

Absolutely not.
Markkanen played at high level this year (all-star?) and showed he can be trusted under pressure. Sexton can still be a nice 6th man

Ayton and timelord? - unreliable. Celts and Suns fans wanted both off their respective teams.

Picks:
The gsw pick will be trash and i don't like the idea of waiting for 2029 in order to finally get something tangible with the other picks.
Would have been nice to have 1 more bucks pick instead of a swap.

 

[Natebishop3]

Why is Nurkic never mentioned in these "hauls", as if he didnt hold any value coming back to us?

And at first glance, I liked the Mitchell and KD hauls much better.

Also, cant really compare these straight up, as the economic situation and free agent market is now quite different from when Donovan was traded.

I didn't say anything about what any of the teams sent out. Just named the trades for the main trade piece.

To me, Nurk, Little, and Keon are inconsequential. I think there's little chance that Nas or Keon would have played much this season. I think Phoenix is going to be really unhappy with Nurk. In my book, Phoenix got fleeced.

 

[blazerfan11]

Absolutely not.
Markkanen played at high level this year (all-star?) and showed he can be trusted under pressure. Sexton can still be a nice 6th man

Ayton and timelord? - unreliable. Celts and Suns fans wanted both off their respective teams.

Picks:
The gsw pick will be trash and i don't like the idea of waiting for 2029 in order to finally get something tangible with the other picks.
Would have been nice to have 1 more bucks pick instead of a swap.

Markannen wasn't an All Star before he went to Utah. Utah was his 3rd team he was so valued.

Being an all star is nice, but one All Star appearance is meaningless.

 

[Natebishop3]

Absolutely not.
Markkanen played at high level this year (all-star?) and showed he can be trusted under pressure. Sexton can still be a nice 6th man

Ayton and timelord? - unreliable. Celts and Suns fans wanted both off their respective teams.

Picks:
The gsw pick will be trash and i don't like the idea of waiting for 2029 in order to finally get something tangible with the other picks.
Would have been nice to have 1 more bucks pick instead of a swap.

Markkanen averaged 15 ppg, 5.7 rebounds, and shot 36% from three the year before going to Utah. That's mediocre as hell. Compare that to Ayton, who averaged 18 ppg and 10 rebounds last season. I think there's a very good chance he puts up 20 and 10 on our team.

I think the GSW pick could actually be good. The Warriors are old as hell, and they already lost Draymond for a month to an injury. They weren't that good last year. They had the 11th best record last season. The Cavs had the 5th best record.

 

[Blazers Roy]

Markannen wasn't an All Star before he went to Utah. Utah was his 3rd team he was so valued.

Being an all star is nice, but one All Star appearance is meaningless.

It doesn't matter what he was. We're talking about current value.
At any rate, he was at least a nice starter for the Cavs.

If you consider Ayton as part of the Nurkic dump deal then what equivalent piece did we get here? Nothing.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Miami fucked themselves over. Those douche nozzles never had the goods to get Dame and were blinded by hubris. I'm enjoying their pain very much.

this.

and then we dealt another stud pg to another EC rival, thereby making it tougher for dame to win a ring and tougher for the heat too.

 

[Blazers Roy]

Markkanen averaged 15 ppg, 5.7 rebounds, and shot 36% from three the year before going to Utah. That's mediocre as hell. Compare that to Ayton, who averaged 18 ppg and 10 rebounds last season. I think there's a very good chance he puts up 20 and 10 on our team.

I think the GSW pick could actually be good. The Warriors are old as hell, and they already lost Draymond for a month to an injury. They weren't that good last year. They had the 11th best record last season. The Cavs had the 5th best record.

Ayton would probably get here for Nurkic and Little anyways. At least Markkanen was a good starter, we got nothing equivalent to that

...And I don't like the recent hype around Ayton here lately. Like you guys haven't followed the Suns at all these past 2 years. Who the fuck even wanted him?

 

[wizenheimer]

no, Blazers didn't get the better "haul".

Of course, the hindsight on those other deals is 1 year of water under the bridge, or thereabouts. We can't be sure yet how the players Portland received will be valued a year from now, but we have a good gauge on the value of Markkanen, Sexton, Bridges, Johnson, Kessler, Crowder, Vanderbilt, and Beverly

Blazers sent out Dame, who is the best player of all those traded except for maybe Durant. But they also sent out Nurkic and Little. That needs to be factored

and they got back a C, with baggage, who the other team was fed up with and wanted to dump, and two players with extensive injury histories. Blazers also, other than the 2024 GS state pick, which will likely be in the 23-28 range, didn't get their pick assets until a tight cluster of picks/swaps 5-7 years from now. Further, one of those swaps is encumbered by the trade for Nance. That reduces it's value. The other trades gave those teams more picks coming in on a better timeline

 

[Blazinaway]

no, Blazers didn't get the better "haul".

Of course, the hindsight on those other deals is 1 year of water under the bridge, or thereabouts. We can't be sure yet how the players Portland received will be valued a year from now, but we have a good gauge on the value of Markkanen, Sexton, Bridges, Johnson, Kessler, Crowder, Vanderbilt, and Beverly

Blazers sent out Dame, who is the best player of all those traded except for maybe Durant. But they also sent out Nurkic and Little. That needs to be factored

and they got back a C, with baggage, who the other team was fed up with and wanted to dump, and two players with extensive injury histories. Blazers also, other than the 2024 GS state pick, which will likely be in the 23-28 range, didn't get their pick assets until a tight cluster of picks/swaps 5-7 years from now. Further, one of those swaps is encumbered by the trade for Nance. That reduces it's value. The other trades gave those teams more picks coming in on a better timeline

Pretty much agree except I believe Nurk/Nas/Keon were at best neutral value given their contracts/performance. I think Ayton has fairly significant upside for the Blazers, moreso than those 3 we traded, we see

 

[blazerkor]

Ayton would probably get here for Nurkic and Little anyways. At least Markkanen was a good starter, we got nothing equivalent to that

...And I don't like the recent hype around Ayton here lately. Like you guys haven't followed the Suns at all these past 2 years. Who the fuck even wanted him?

Malcolm Brogdon is a helluva three point shooter. He is extremely versatile because he can both run the point and play off the ball, he has shown himself to be a solid defender across multiple positions 1-3. He's the reigning 6th man of the year.

To answer that last question the Pacers really wanted Ayton, they're the one that offered him his current contract. Also Markkanen was a "good starter" for Cleveland who failed to make the playoffs in 2022 and Ayton was an actually good starter on a team that went to the Finals.

I'm not a Joe apologist. I just think he knocked this one out of the park and I think we haven't even seen the final return on the deal yet.

 

[wizenheimer]

Pretty much agree except I believe Nurk/Nas/Keon were at best neutral value given their contracts/performance. I think Ayton has fairly significant upside for the Blazers, moreso than those 3 we traded, we see

but...the Suns gave up Ayton for Nurk and Little and they got virtually nothing from Dame, except Allen. Pretty hard to claim they had no value because Portland doesn't get Ayton without trading Nurk & Little

 

[blazerkor]

but...the Suns gave up Ayton for Nurk and Little and they got virtually nothing from Dame, except Allen. Pretty hard to claim they had no value because Portland doesn't get Ayton without trading Nurk & Little

I don't know that Allen was nothing. He was the starting SG on the team with the best record in the East last season.

 

[Natebishop3]

but...the Suns gave up Ayton for Nurk and Little and they got virtually nothing from Dame, except Allen. Pretty hard to claim they had no value because Portland doesn't get Ayton without trading Nurk & Little

Well, hold up. We needed help to match salary.

Ayton makes $32,459,438

Nurk makes $16,875000
Little makes $6,250,000
Keon makes $2,808,720

That's only $25,933,720 so there's essentially a delta of $6.5 million.

Allen has a cap figure of $8,925,000. Who do we use instead from our roster if we did this move on our own?

 

[wizenheimer]

I don't know that Allen was nothing. He was the starting SG on the team with the best record in the East last season.

ok...that's fair. Still, you can't just talk about how wonderful Ayton is going to be without accounting for the price Portland paid. And while it's the cool thing right now to dismiss Nurkic, his talent, and his impact, it's not like he's stale chopped liver. He has flaws for sure, and Ayton will probably be an upgrade, but Dame wasn't the value, or the salary, that brought Ayton to Portland

 

[beast blazer]

I didn't say anything about what any of the teams sent out. Just named the trades for the main trade piece.

To me, Nurk, Little, and Keon are inconsequential. I think there's little chance that Nas or Keon would have played much this season. I think Phoenix is going to be really unhappy with Nurk. In my book, Phoenix got fleeced.

But Nurk WAS the main trade piece that landed us Ayton. Grayson Allen was the "Damian Lillard" portion of the trade, but it was mostly about Nurk.

I'd say the returns are about equal overall. Which I'd say is a win for Portland due to Lillard's age and contract...

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

But Nurk WAS the main trade piece that landed us Ayton. Grayson Allen was the "Damian Lillard" portion of the trade, but it was mostly about Nurk.

I'd say the returns are about equal overall. Which I'd say is a win for Portland due to Lillard's age and contract...

I think its silly not to factor Nurk into this trade as far as evaluation goes. Little as well. He is still young with potential who was developing a decent three.

I think this is one of Nates few failed threads. Lol.

 

[Blazers Roy]

Malcolm Brogdon is a helluva three point shooter. He is extremely versatile because he can both run the point and play off the ball, he has shown himself to be a solid defender across multiple positions 1-3. He's the reigning 6th man of the year.

To answer that last question the Pacers really wanted Ayton, they're the one that offered him his current contract. Also Markkanen was a "good starter" for Cleveland who failed to make the playoffs in 2022 and Ayton was an actually good starter on a team that went to the Finals.

I'm not a Joe apologist. I just think he knocked this one out of the park and I think we haven't even seen the final return on the deal yet.

I think some of you are too desperate to frame this as a win.
The truth is we didn't get any players we can count on in this trade.
We got players who are unreliable due to injury or character.

The deal was made in the wrong timing under bad circumstances. It's okay, we got a bad roster right now, but it might turn into other good players in the future.

Personally, I'd rather be honest with myself and not have fantasies about the future dominance of Ayton,Brogdon being 6th man of the year, Williams being healthy, Simons developing mean D etc.

 

[BassPlaya]

Sheeez, and I thought that Dame traded would be the end of hypotheticals and arguing.

Like, it's whatever ya'll want, but it sure looks like arguing for arguing's sake.

You can get your car painted and love it.....and move on. Or....you can ask everyone else what they paid for their paintjob, and compare endlessly to either feel good or crappy about what you paid for.

Curious, what does that accomplish?

 

[wizenheimer]

Sheeez, and I thought that Dame traded would be the end of hypotheticals and arguing.

Like, it's whatever ya'll want, but it sure looks like arguing for arguing's sake.

You can get your car painted and love it.....and move on. Or....you can ask everyone else what they paid for their paintjob, and compare endlessly to either feel good or crappy about what you paid for.

Curious, what does that accomplish?

you're dumb...you should have got a new car, not painted the old one. And the upholstery still sucks

 

[Natebishop3]

Sheeez, and I thought that Dame traded would be the end of hypotheticals and arguing.

Like, it's whatever ya'll want, but it sure looks like arguing for arguing's sake.

You can get your car painted and love it.....and move on. Or....you can ask everyone else what they paid for their paintjob, and compare endlessly to either feel good or crappy about what you paid for.

Curious, what does that accomplish?

What did you clicking on this thread and responding accomplish?