Do we need to trade for another big?

[jlprk]

I think this is totally plausible, but I don't remember seeing anything like that in an interview with him. Got a source?

I'm not good at searching Barrett or the Oregonian (I was mainly reading Blazer Blog and Behind the Beat), but everyone will agree that there were quite a few articles in which Howard said he loved being here (everyone had thought that injuries had ended his career) and hoped to stay here. He said Portland is different and the fans walk up to him, great fan support, etc. It was quite a high to win games last year hours after after an announcement that some injured player wouldn't be playing that night. He was pretty happy to have his career back after a couple of years of looking like a dead man.

We read how Camby's restaurant dinner had been ruined when he found out the Clippers were trading him. He wanted to re-sign with them, so when he came here, he left his wife and children in Los Angeles, in case he would sign with them in the summer. There was Oregonian stuff about how he linked up to the old guys (Juwan Howard and Andre Miller), which in previous years we didn't have (being 3rd youngest team in history was nothing to brag about, the Pritchard philosophy, it just cost us wins). There was stuff about how Howard told Camby how much he liked it here. We read about how certain named teams planned to make Camby an offer (I remember the Knicks specifically) and then came the surprise--he signed with the Blazers. Everyone said, Pritchard is a genius!! (Paul Allen overpaying him might just have been a little bitty factor, too.)

Upon reflection, I remembered how Howard had praised the city and team to Camby, and it occurred to me that that had had a lot to do with his surprise (dumb, other teams would say) decision to not collect offers in the summer.

Boy, look at all that. You have a lot of research to do, to find those links you want. Instead, just ask others here. We all read this stuff. The only new thing I'm adding is to connect Howard's happy talk that the Oregonian reported he made to Camby, to Camby's decision to stay here. I don't see how anyone can say that wasn't a big influence in his switching his allegiance from Los Angeles and moving his family to a small market.

Then in the summer the local media quietly told us that Howard was free to leave, later that he probably would, then that the team was making no effort to keep him, and finally that he had chosen the LeBron Heat. (Apparently he could have chosen any team, at his cheap price.) So we dumped him, he didn't dump us. But the latter sounds more dignified, so Heat media now words it that way.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Word on the street was that Riley reached out to Howard personally (iirc, he's got a home in South Beach) and Juwan/mal chose MIA over a "rudderless" Portland.

No link. Call BS if you'd like

 

[jlprk]

OK, BS.

Our revisionist historians move fast to protect the Blazers from embarrassment.

 

[BrianFromWA]

LOL. Fair enough. I'm cringing at what is going to have to happen in MIA for Juwan to get the run or the talent back to make anyone on the Blazers "embarrassed" that they couldn't woo him back.

 

[BGrantFan]

LOL. Fair enough. I'm cringing at what is going to have to happen in MIA for Juwan to get the run or the talent back to make anyone on the Blazers "embarrassed" that they couldn't woo him back.

Camby took over the "Juwan" role, and Marcus is a much better player. Meaning, he's still productive.

 

[jlprk]

Well, tonight this board is rife with helpful hints on proposed trades for a big man (giving up a No. 1 pick or a player) if Pendergraph is out for any length of time. Not having Howard doesn't embarrass me, it just saddens me.

If the news from tomorrow's MRI is that we'll go without Pendergraph in the coming weeks, then everytime you see Cunningham and Babbitt being our only subs at C and PF, just remember the guy who got us through last season, Juwan Howard.

 

[BGrantFan]

Well, tonight this board is rife with helpful hints on proposed trades for a big man (giving up a No. 1 pick or a player) if Pendergraph is out for any length of time. Not having Howard doesn't embarrass me, it just saddens me.

If the news from tomorrow's MRI is that we'll go without Pendergraph in the coming weeks, then everytime you see Cunningham and Babbitt being our only subs at C and PF, just remember the guy who got us through last season, Juwan Howard.

I will, right after I watch Marcus Camby play much better than Juwan Howard. I like how Howard battled, but he's totally done at this point.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I liked how he battled, and he was pretty close to "totally done" at this point LAST year.

 

[jlprk]

You do realize, don't you, that Pendergraph left the game tonight in a wheelchair? That an MRI will determine how bad it is? That without him, our only subs above 6 foot 6 are Cunningham and Babbitt?

I just don't understand why you keep comparing Camby to Howard. Howard would not have started this year. He would have been our best sub up front. All we have there are 2 second year, second round picks, and a rookie first round pick. In other words, no one. And now Pendy is out.

You guys write in the abstract, as if you don't know the pertinent details of our situation.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I know a few of the details, and while I'm not the world's biggest fan of "I'm really a SF, no really, I am" Cunningham, I think having a 22 y/o who is an inch shorter. shoots just as well, rebounds better, plays better D, turns it over less, and has 3-4 years until his prime taking up 10-15 mpg with a PER of 14 than a 37 y/o guy who's ring-chasing and "battled" his way to a PER of 10 and a DRtg of 108. No offense to those of you trying to relive the Fab Five Golden Years with a story about us maybe retaining a guy as the 5th or 6th big on the roster who ended up with the Dream Cream Team, where he can chill at his 15,000 sqft 8-figure home.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Loved Howard's professionalism and figuratively, for a man dying of thirst in the desert he was a cup of water, but let's not get carried away.

 

[jlprk]

You don't think he'd be a lifesaver right now if Pendergraph is out for weeks or months?

You don't think he's 5 times as good as Cunningham, Babbitt, or Pendergraph?

What is your reason for wanting Pendergraph over Howard? They'll both be in the league 2-3 more years, Howard is 10 times as good, I'm out of comparisons...

(BGrant--I'm not saying he'd take Camby's job. He'd be a substitute. Enough of your irrelevant comparison to Camby.)

 

[jlprk]

I know a few of the details, and while I'm not the world's biggest fan of "I'm really a SF, no really, I am" Cunningham, I think having a 22 y/o who is an inch shorter. shoots just as well, rebounds better, plays better D, turns it over less, and has 3-4 years until his prime taking up 10-15 mpg with a PER of 14 than a 37 y/o guy who's ring-chasing and "battled" his way to a PER of 10 and a DRtg of 108. No offense to those of you trying to relive the Fab Five Golden Years with a story about us maybe retaining a guy as the 5th or 6th big on the roster who ended up with the Dream Cream Team, where he can chill at his 15,000 sqft 8-figure home.

When Cunningham finally reaches his prime, after several years of taking up space on rosters, he'll be less of a player than Howard is now. Do you really think that he'll ever be able to start in the NBA, even due to others' injuries, like Juwan did last year? I see a frail undersized PF trying to keep up with SFs due to his size, lasting about 5 years in the league. He doesn't have Outlaw's leaping or quickness. He does try at defense, unlike Outlaw. So he is no Outlaw, and that's not saying much.

Howard was 5 times Outlaw last year. If Howard was dumped to open a 5-year spot to develop Cunningham, who will always be less than Outlaw, that's just dumb.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

You don't think he'd be a lifesaver right now if Pendergraph is out for weeks or months?

You don't think he's 5 times as good as Cunningham, Babbitt, or Pendergraph?

What is your reason for wanting Pendergraph over Howard? They'll both be in the league 2-3 more years, Howard is 10 times as good, I'm out of comparisons...

(BGrant--I'm not saying he'd take Camby's job. He'd be a substitute. Enough of your irrelevant comparison to Camby.)

Personally, I do not. Howard was terrible last year.

 

[jlprk]

Terrible, how? If you're comparing his stats, is it to Camby, or to Pendergraph and Cunningham?...because he'd be a substitute, not a starter. How would he be worse than the subs we have at C and PF? (the inexperienced Cunningham, Babbitt, and Pendergraph even before his injury)

 

[shamelessblazer]

What about Turiaf, he's no gem but a very hard worker, nice on defense, and not a bad passer. Plus he's used to cheering a lot from the bench.

New York might not be using him a ton this season, and we might be able to grab him at a good value.

 

[MickZagger]

I'd love Turiaf, but he's not really a Center.

 

[Kaydow]

Im surprised nobody has mentioned who I think would be a great fit for you....DJ Mbenga

He has been buried on the Lakers depth chart and is itching to prove himself worthy of many more minutes which I think he can do. He is stronger than Oden and has a blackbelt in Karate. His offensive game SUCKS but he is a beast on defense and rebounding. On top of that you can get him REAL cheap and it isnt a risk at all. I truly believe he will outplay his next contract if givin the chance

When I think of Mbenga, I can't help but think of this video. Just. Wrong.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

A player who's also available (for good reason some might say) is Fabricio Oberto. He hasn't done much at all in the NBA in a couple of years, but neither had Howard, and he looked perfectly serviceable playing for Argentina this Summer. He has about two things going for him: he's a legit 7 foot, and he's a very smart basketball player (particularly in moving the ball), so the offense would run smoothly with him in there. But we'd have to lose Patty Mills plus one other player to sign him, and he's probably not worth that.

 

[Draco]

I would like to see us cut Armon and pickup the best PF or C we can find. Dampier would be an amazing pickup but I doubt he would be interested. Oberto or Turiaf would be fine. Heck just getting the best DLeaguer the team can find would be ok with me. I believe this team could be a contender by March if they get a few breaks to go their way. So I would like to see us put as much effort into maximizing our early season record in order to get HCA as a 2 or 3 seed. If we lose a small amount of long term potential in Armon I believe that is worth the cost in order to add a few early season wins. Having some sort of big man, even a below average sub, would allow the team to not have to always play small ball. I don’t want to see Nic and Babbit having to play consistent minutes at PF every night.

I would be curious if theres any chance of us getting a 16th roster spot from Pendy's injury. I can't remember the specifics of that rule.

 

[BGrantFan]

Cho is going to sign someone, but not for more than 3 weeks at this point. At least that is what Quick reported in the O this morning. He doesn't want to cut anyone from the 15-man roster, and trading anyone on the roster for a 4th-string (or 5th if you count Aldridge) center makes no sense.

 

[Blazinaway]

A player who's also available (for good reason some might say) is Fabricio Oberto. He hasn't done much at all in the NBA in a couple of years, but neither had Howard, and he looked perfectly serviceable playing for Argentina this Summer. He has about two things going for him: he's a legit 7 foot, and he's a very smart basketball player (particularly in moving the ball), so the offense would run smoothly with him in there. But we'd have to lose Patty Mills plus one other player to sign him, and he's probably not worth that.

I love Jeff but can't we just waive him and free up a roster spot? We take care of all his rehab needs and he gets paid of course, this is done assuming he is out for all or most of the season.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Terrible, how? If you're comparing his stats, is it to Camby, or to Pendergraph and Cunningham?...because he'd be a substitute, not a starter. How would he be worse than the subs we have at C and PF? (the inexperienced Cunningham, Babbitt, and Pendergraph even before his injury)

By which metric is he 5x the player? Howard LAST YEAR was a worse rebounder (based on reb rate and r/min), defender (based on Drtg, blocks, steals and PER against), had more turnovers, a lower ORating and PER and was 15 years older than Dante, playing at the backup PF spot. A year older, versus DC having a year of seasoning?

He put in a yeoman's effort, but I'm comparing Dante to Howard, and saying that Howard's PER of 10 at age 37 can go to Miami and chase a ring for the vet minimum and that's just fine. If we have to rely on someone as the emergency-6th-big, I'm ok with it being Cunningham. Especially in the preseason.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I'll put it more bluntly...if MIA called me up and said "we've changed the rules, we'll trade you HOward for DC straight up" I'd say no.

 

[Further]

Rudy has been impressive in preseason so far and is hopefully upping his value. If we can trade Rudy for a halfway decent backup C then pull the trigger. But I just don't think it's worth it thin out the rest of the roster who is providing quality depth for a guy who will be relegated to the end of the bench for the majority of the year.

We just found out that both Joel and Oden are practicing at near full speed. I trust that at least one of them will be back within a month of the season opener. If Cho & Co have news that we are not privy to that leads them to believe that Joel and Oden are never returning to form this season, then of course pull the trigger to get another Big. But with the info we are provided at the moment, I see no need to be overly alarmed and dismantle a well constructed squad.

 

[BGrantFan]

Rudy has been impressive in preseason so far and is hopefully upping his value.

He said he wants to leave the NBA, not just leave Portland. Presumably, any team that trades for him will still have to deal with Rudy being homesick. Regardless of how he plays, Rudy's own public comments have torpedoed his trade value.

 

[LittleAlex]

Cho is going to sign someone, but not for more than 3 weeks at this point. At least that is what Quick reported in the O this morning. He doesn't want to cut anyone from the 15-man roster, and trading anyone on the roster for a 4th-string (or 5th if you count Aldridge) center makes no sense.

Right now Cho is assuming that all of our big men will return and be healthy at some point this season.

Considering recent (and not so recent) Blazer history that is quite a gamble.

Luckily Cho has a long history of quick and decisive roster moves.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

BREAKING NEWS: TheRealJP31
Tough news today y'all, I'm out for the season with torn ACL

 

[MickZagger]

I would like to see us cut Armon and pickup the best PF or C we can find. Dampier would be an amazing pickup but I doubt he would be interested. Oberto or Turiaf would be fine. Heck just getting the best DLeaguer the team can find would be ok with me. I believe this team could be a contender by March if they get a few breaks to go their way. So I would like to see us put as much effort into maximizing our early season record in order to get HCA as a 2 or 3 seed. If we lose a small amount of long term potential in Armon I believe that is worth the cost in order to add a few early season wins. Having some sort of big man, even a below average sub, would allow the team to not have to always play small ball. I don’t want to see Nic and Babbit having to play consistent minutes at PF every night.

I would be curious if theres any chance of us getting a 16th roster spot from Pendy's injury. I can't remember the specifics of that rule.

I think some within the organization envision Johnson to be the PG of the future. I don't think there's a chance that were going to trade him for a stop-gap center.

 

[jlprk]

Johnson is a terrible shooter. He is a pass-first PG, so I won't compare him to the strong Jarrett Jack. He's more like a Telfair with muscles. The strength will someday enable him to play defense, after a couple of years of learning.

So the coaches will put 2 years of their attention into developing a Telfair who can play defense, but who still can't shoot. As with other failed shooters of recent years, Armon's backers will constantly assure us that learning the shooting skill is only a matter of time, and that he'll be better next year.

He isn't a spectacular passer like the rookie Sergio. He has the strength to drive like Jack. Once again, we're stuck developing a young player who won't ever be a star, instead of getting experience like Juwan Howard. And when the GM does rarely give in and get experience, he then dumps the vet at the first opportunity.

Keeping Johnson isn't worth ruining the season. Get an experienced big man. This time, keep him.