Do you believe in Heaven and Hell?

[ABM]

what do you mean 'that's my reality'? god either exists or he doesn't independent of what either of us think or believe. we are both in the same reality.

OK, whatever you say. Far be it from me to attempt to persuade you otherwise. It's become futile, IMO.

 

[MARIS61]

Sure thing



...in regards to God. I literally laughed out loud when I read this. Yes Maris, you know the mind of God Almighty. Extremely arrogant or ignorant, or both.

So, you've got nothing. thought so.

 

[ABM]

I can't fault you for your results then. I'm happy for you if you're happy.

Thanks, MARIS. I wish you all the best, as well.

 

[MARIS61]

Vague minds think alike

Neither of you made a rebuttal, just quoted my post of an obvious, undeniable fact.

Care to elaborate?

 

[MadeFromDust]

Neither of you made a rebuttal, just quoted my post of an obvious, undeniable fact.

Care to elaborate?

It's an obvious, undeniable fact that you know the mind of God? Lord have mercy.

 

[ABM]

Neither of you made a rebuttal, just quoted my post of an obvious, undeniable fact.

Care to elaborate?

It's just that you appeared to indicate you have God all figured out. in my mind, that's an ignorant statement. However, in the same vein of what you had related to me, above, far be it from me to place judgement on you. It's not my call. Peace.

 

[PapaG]

it is trivial to demonstrate that faith is useless as a tool for finding objective truth. humans continually come to believe many mutually incompatable things through faith, as well as many things that are later proven to be patently false.

you have no means to distinguish the 'rightness' of your faith - no means to determine if you aren't just fooling yourself through faith, as you must necessarily agree a large portion of humanity is prone to do.

in light of that when you say your god requires faith you are just making an excuse for your belief, not providing a justification.

The search for "objective proof" in any arena, and arguing that point, also requires faith, since there is no objective truth regarding in the existence of a heaven or a hell, or the lack thereof.

The funny thing about debates like these is that one side knows there is no proof, but the other is vehement in trying to prove there is proof.

It amuses me.

 

[crowTrobot]

OK, whatever you say. Far be it from me to attempt to persuade you otherwise. It's become futile, IMO.

ok no biggie. i assume you aren't actually arguing for solipsism even though it seems that way, but at best when you say "that's my reality" it just comes across as another excuse for your belief rather than a reason. you might as well say i don't really care whether god factually exists or not, i'm going to believe in him because it makes me feel good.

 

[MARIS61]

It's an obvious, undeniable fact that you know the mind of God? Lord have mercy.

I know he's a fictional character created to influence the masses through mind control, so yeah, I know him inside and out.

MARIS61 was created in His image, only without the egomaniacal bloodthirst and crippling insecurities.

 

[crowTrobot]

The search for "objective proof" in any arena, and arguing that point, also requires faith, since there is no objective truth regarding in the existence of a heaven or a hell, or the lack thereof.

lol what?

 

[MadeFromDust]

I know he's a fictional character created to influence the masses through mind control, so yeah, I know him inside and out.

MARIS61 was created in His image, only without the egomaniacal bloodthirst and crippling insecurities.

If you don't believe in God, well, I just don't even know what to say except that you are blind and ignorant of reality. That is just a fact and not me pushing my beliefs onto you. God is the most real this in this existence, He in fact created it. The sooner you accept that reality the better things will go for you.

 

[ABM]

ok no biggie. i assume you aren't actually arguing for solipsism even though it seems that way, but at best when you say "that's my reality" it just comes across as another excuse for your belief rather than a reason. you might as well say i don't really care whether god factually exists or not, i'm going to believe in him because it makes me feel good.

I suppose it's just a matter of me interchanging the word 'belief' with 'reality'. I happen to believe in God (my faith comes from my belief that what He says has, is, and will happen.....is absolute truth.) You apparently don't believe in God. Therefore, we have two entirely different frames of mind/perspective.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Wait, what are we talking a'boot?

 

[MARIS61]

Thanks, MARIS. I wish you all the best, as well.

Probably half of my friends are religious, AND republican, but they all share my insistence on (and acceptance of) Freedom of Speech.

I seldom talk religion or politics with my friends because I already know what they will say and they know me. Been there done that.

But they're my friends because they are really good people who make the world a better place by the way they live their lives. If people are to be judged at all by anyone, they should be judged by what they do, and what they fail to do. Not by what they think, know, or wish for.

 

[barfo]

If you don't believe in God, well, I just don't even know what to say except that you are blind and ignorant of reality. That is just a fact and not me pushing my beliefs onto you.

Ok, that was pretty funny. Just wondering, is this the first time you've ever talked to non-believers?

God is the most real this in this existence, He in fact created it. The sooner you accept that reality the better things will go for you.

So you say. I don't think I accept your authority on the subject. God will just have to reveal himself to me if he wants me to worship him.

barfo

 

[ABM]

Probably half of my friends are religious, AND republican, but they all share my insistence on (and acceptance of) Freedom of Speech.

I seldom talk religion or politics with my friends because I already know what they will say and they know me. Been there done that.

But they're my friends because they are really good people who make the world a better place by the way they live their lives. If people are to be judged at all by anyone, they should be judged by what they do, and what they fail to do. Not by what they think, know, or wish for.

I concur. I have similar experiences. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[MadeFromDust]

Ok, that was pretty funny. Just wondering, is this the first time you've ever talked to non-believers?

No, I've actually been debating militant atheists online for years now. It doesn't make what I said any less true.

So you say. I don't think I accept your authority on the subject. God will just have to reveal himself to me if he wants me to worship him.

barfo

Well if you are sincere about finding God then you need to be the one to seek Him out with a humble and repentant spirit. God owes you nothing but He will listen if you sincerely mean it. If you do, He will reveal Himself to you if and when He so chooses to.

 

[ABM]

No, I've actually been debating militant atheists online for years now. It doesn't make what I said any less true.



Well if you are sincere about finding God then you need to be the one to seek Him out with a humble and repentant spirit. God owes you nothing but He will listen if you sincerely mean it. If you do, He will reveal Himself to you if and when He so chooses to.

What church do you attend. Just curious. Me? I attend Mars Hill in SE Portland. http://portland.marshill.com/

http://marshill.com/

 

[MARIS61]

If you don't believe in God, well, I just don't even know what to say except that you are blind and ignorant of reality. That is just a fact and not me pushing my beliefs onto you. God is the most real this in this existence, He in fact created it. The sooner you accept that reality the better things will go for you.

LOL.

Things could not possibly "go better" for me. Things are already the best. For decades I have lived a blessed life, experiencing miracles every day.

Ignoring common sense, logic, and the laws of nature, and being a willing slave to a mythical super-being with a decidely dark side seems unwise at this juncture.

 

[MadeFromDust]

What church do you attend. Just curious. Me? I attend Mars Hill in SE Portland. http://portland.marshill.com/

http://marshill.com/

I attend Willamette Christian church in West Linn. I've heard a lot of good things about Mars Hill and I really like Pastor Mark Driscoll. I'll have to check that church out some time. It's pretty new right?

 

[MadeFromDust]

LOL.

Things could not possibly "go better" for me. Things are already the best. For decades I have lived a blessed life, experiencing miracles every day.

Ignoring common sense, logic, and the laws of nature, and being a willing slave to a mythical super-being with a decidely dark side seems unwise at this juncture.

You can say that now, the sun rises on the good and evil alike (not calling you evil). But there will come a day where you will be held accountable and will stand before God Almighty. I hope you are on His good side.

 

[ABM]

I attend Willamette Christian church in West Linn. I've heard a lot of good things about Mars Hill and I really like Pastor Mark Driscoll. I'll have to check that church out some time. It's pretty new right?

Yep. If you're interested in checking us out, drop by on January 15th. That's the actual kick-off date of the Portland fellowship. If you do come, let me know. Would be glad to meet you. Coffee's on me.

 

[MARIS61]

[video=youtube;YWyCCJ6B2WE]

 

[MadeFromDust]

Yep. If you're interested in checking us out, drop by on January 15th. That's the actual kick-off date of the Portland fellowship. If you do come, let me know. Would be glad to meet you. Coffee's on me.

Well cool, I might have to take you up on that I'll let you know if I can make it.

 

[MARIS61]

You can say that now, the sun rises on the good and evil alike (not calling you evil). But there will come a day where you will be held accountable and will stand before God Almighty. I hope you are on His good side.

Even if I didn't know he was a fictional character, I could never be buds with him.

He's way too full of himself and he's the meanest, most vile heavy I've ever read about. His "sins" eclipse any and all that mankind has committed. The more I studied the bible the more puzzled I was as to what anyone sees in him. He's presented basically as an asshole bully that torments and tortures people for no good reason at all other than they refuse to cower before him.

If he was real, I might feel compelled to take him down.

 

[MadeFromDust]

good luck

 

[barfo]

Well if you are sincere about finding God then you need to be the one to seek Him out with a humble and repentant spirit. God owes you nothing but He will listen if you sincerely mean it. If you do, He will reveal Himself to you if and when He so chooses to.

Your God seems sort of high-maintenance. I think I'll try to find a god that isn't quite so needy.

barfo

 

[KingSpeed]

ABM-

A) Have you read and studied the ENTIRE Bible?

B) Do you believe ALL of it as you say?

C) Do you adhere to ALL of it? ALL of it?

D) How do you CHOOSE to reconcile its inconsistencies? (Jesus contradicting the Old Testament)

 

[KingSpeed]

I questioned/rebelled for over 30 years. I then found truth. It may very well not be your truth, but it's my truth.

Exactly. Not the Bible's truth. YOUR truth. Your VERSION of the truth. What works for YOU.

 

[KingSpeed]

Also, ABM, the Bible is a collection of writings by many people. Who decided what to include and what no to include in "The Bible" and how do we know those people were on the up and up? What exactly are you believing in? God didn't write the Bible and hand it down from the sky. At least in LDS, the Golden Plates were buried there by an actual angel!