Donaghy: it would be "very, very difficult" for the Blazers to win a championship

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
chris_in_pdx said:
Roy is.... Joe Johnson. He's Gerald Wallace. He's Deron Williams. He's Chris Paul. He's a 2nd-tier NBA "star" who can win a team games, but can't get a team over the hump. I've said it over and over again, Portland's ONLY hope was that Greg Oden could have become the next Dwight Howard/Shaq. To be so dominate that the NBA COULDN'T ignore him. The door on that isn't completely closed, but it's barely open a sliver.

Donaghy may be a slimy, money-grubbing dirtbag, but he didn't make all that shit up. Maybe embellished some, but the core of what he says is completely believable by anyone with a brain and a memory.
Click to expand...

This. Well said.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
I like the guys who think fouling out should be removed from the game, period. Fouling in general is enough of a penalty, especially when you go over the team limit in a quarter, that it shouldn't matter who fouled.
Click to expand...

They also need to eliminate the "technical foul". With the advent of the flagrant foul rules, the "T" has become nothing more than a toy for vindictive or ego happy refs.
 
oldmangrouch said:
They also need to eliminate the "technical foul". With the advent of the flagrant foul rules, the "T" has become nothing more than a toy for vindictive or ego happy refs.
Click to expand...

I would agree to that.. although I would think there has to be something in place when a player goes ballistic.
 
San Antonio is an extremely small market and they've won 4 titles in the last 11 years. Also- Cleveland is a small market so why does the NBA want them in the Finals? Because they have a star? Does that mean the league will want us in the Finals if Oden becomes a star?
 
By the way, LeBron can't get his team over the hump. Does that make him 2nd tier?
 
If congress can get involved with Baseball and the steroid issue, couldn't the same thing be done for the unfair advantages the refs/Stern give certain teams/situations? I mean, if Donaghy is right, do his claims warrant an official investigation? I guess the only huge difference is that steroids are illegal. I don't know, I just want some thing to be done about this. It's so fucking unfair to the hundreds of thousands of people that spend money on blazer tickets, food at the RG and gear. It would be different if the NBA came out and said "we're WWE wresting." They brand themselves as a competitive-based league. They're lying. As consumers is there any thing we can do other than not giving them our business? I'm so upset about this. I sincerely am not sure if I can follow the NBA anymore, and it breaks my heart. I've been a die hard Blazer fan as far back as I can remember. I've put so much energy, time and money in to this organization with the hopes that one day I would be able to enjoy a Championship in my adult life. If it's all for not, then I see no point in continuing on as a fan.
 
MrSelfDestruct said:
Beat me to it. He was being handcuffed tremendously.


San Antonio as a small market has been addressed before:

1. San Antonio is the 7th largest city in the country.
2. They had (have) players that draw international audiences.

The boring part I can't dispute, though.
Click to expand...

Portland has a larger surrounding population. Portland's TV market is ranked 22nd in size. San Antonio is 37th.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/09/10/nielsen-local-television-market-universe-estimates/5037
 
The Professional Fan said:
If congress can get involved with Baseball and the steroid issue, couldn't the same thing be done for the unfair advantages the refs/Stern give certain teams/situations? I mean, if Donaghy is right, do his claims warrant an official investigation? I guess the only huge difference is that steroids are illegal. I don't know, I just want some thing to be done about this. It's so fucking unfair to the hundreds of thousands of people that spend money on blazer tickets, food at the RG and gear. It would be different if the NBA came out and said "we're WWE wresting." They brand themselves as a competitive-based league. They're lying. As consumers is there any thing we can do other than not giving them our business? I'm so upset about this. I sincerely am not sure if I can follow the NBA anymore, and it breaks my heart. I've been a die hard Blazer fan as far back as I can remember. I've put so much energy, time and money in to this organization with the hopes that one day I would be able to enjoy a Championship in my adult life. If it's all for not, then I see no point in continuing on as a fan.
Click to expand...
While I would love to see a deep investigation done, I'm afraid it would change very little. So many calls are subjective and so many rules so convoluted that basically any call could be argued as correct.

e_blazer said:
Portland has a larger surrounding population. Portland's TV market is ranked 22nd in size. San Antonio is 37th.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/09/10/nielsen-local-television-market-universe-estimates/5037
Click to expand...
Noted. However, what about the international draw of Parker and Ginobili?
 
Wait for Roy to get healthy and you might make a run.

So far you haven't done anything yet due to age/injury.
 
KingSpeed said:
San Antonio is an extremely small market and they've won 4 titles in the last 11 years. Also- Cleveland is a small market so why does the NBA want them in the Finals? Because they have a star? Does that mean the league will want us in the Finals if Oden becomes a star?
Click to expand...

San Antonio is the 7th largest market in the country. How is that "small market"?
 
I don't know where you people are getting SA the 7th largest city in the US. They are in the 30-40 range in population size and TV market both behind Portland. Maybe you are talking about land area size lol.:ohno:
 
That list is within the actual city limits and does not take in to account any suburban area. I'm certain San An isn't the 7th largest MARKET in the U.S. but it's possible that more people live in the city limits of San An than Dallas, even though that too is hard to believe.

This list I think is a more fair representation of market size.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas
 
I believe some of the issue stems from San Antonio being a more populace city, but a smaller metro area, population wise.

Although what they consider the metro area, seems to change with different sites. I think it should be Portland/Vancouver/Salem, and all cities in the area.

Also, San Antonio as a city is much larger than Portland. Something like 130 square miles (Portland) to 400 (San Antonio). So our density is much higher (4300 vs 2800). If you were to take the area around Portland to equal that of San Antonio, and it was of a similar density as Portland proper, the population base would be somewhere around 1.75 million, which would put Portland as the 5th most populace city in the nation.

Phoenix and Houston are significantly larger cities (land wise) than Portland, but Philadelphia is on par with us (size wise).
Portland just has the misfortune of being "only" 134 square miles.
 
julius said:
Phoenix and Houston are significantly larger cities (land wise) than Portland, but Philadelphia is on par with us (size wise). Portland just has the misfortune of being "only" 134 square miles.
Click to expand...
How would the amount of Portlanders with Phili roots/family compare to the amount of Philadelphians with PDX roots/family? I suspect there are significantly more Portlanders who grew up in Philadelphia then vise versa.

The dynamic of how the country has filled up (East to West) is another factor working against the Blazer's draw/ratings

STOMP
 
Last edited:
blazerboy30 said:
Sad. I love this game and the Blazers, but it wears on me knowing that the refs have such a huge influence on NBA games.

Can't wait for college football season.
Click to expand...

College Football: Where your team is fucked over by the BCS instead of biased officials
 
BGrantFan said:
San Antonio is the 7th largest market in the country. How is that "small market"?
Click to expand...

Isn't Portland a bigger market since the entire STATE roots for the team while Texas is divided into three fan bases?

San Antonio may have a big population but they get the WORST ratings in the NBA. New York is pretty bad too.

Worst rated Finals of all time (starting with the worst, in millions):

1. 2007- San Antonio vs Cleveland 9.29- so much for San Antonio being a big market and LeBron being a big draw

2. 2003- San Antonio vs New Jersey 9.86- again, SA and NJ have huge populations but that doesn't seem to matter

3. 2005- San Antonio vs Detroit 12.54- damn, you'd think the NBA would fix games against San Antonio

4. 2006- Miami vs Dallas 12.97- one of the most entertaining finals of the last 10 years and featuring a star in Dwyane Wade

5. 2002- Lakers vs New Jersey 15.68- the Lakers with bad ratings??? Yep, perhaps because the series was viewed as non competitive, I guess? But 19.00 tuned in for Lakers-Sixers which was also a blowout. Iverson the big draw? Also- 17.94 tuned into watch the Pistons beat the Lakers in 5.

If the league is fixing playoff games for ratings, they're doing a terrible job. And which teams should they be fixing for?? The Knicks, the biggest city in the country, have gotten terrible ratings when in the Finals. The 1994 Finals had the Knicks but lost 10 million viewers from the year before and the 1999 Finals had the KNicks but lost 13 million viewers from the year before.

So you have something to compare these numbers to, here are the top 3 (starting with the best)?:

1. 1998 Chicago vs Utah 29.04- Wow. I guess MJ was just a little more popular than Kobe or LeBron are.

2. 1993 Chicago vs Phoenix 27.21- Great series. Jordan, Pippen, Barkley

3. 1997 Chicago vs Utah 25.59

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2008/04/20/nba-postseason-broadcast-ratings-1987-2007/3413

Maybe what the league needs is a true powerhouse. The Knicks have never had a true marketable star , as great as Ewing was. If you put LeBron, Wade, and Bosh on the Knicks with Phil Jackson as coach, they will break the record for longest win streak (33) and break the 1996 Bulls for best regular season record ever. Plus, they'll be the first team since the 1960s Celtics to win 4 championships in a row.
 
Last edited:
KingSpeed said:
Isn't Portland a bigger market since the entire STATE roots for the team while Texas is divided into three fan bases?
Click to expand...
the entire state of Oregon has under 4 million people while Texas has over 24 million...

STOMP
 
Technically TD is correct. Portland winning a title would be Very, Very Difficult.

Just like it happens to be for every other team in the NBA.


I don't believe for one second that the NBA gives one shit who wins the title. Honestly, I am not entirely sure they care a whole lot about who gets further in the playoffs.

I do think they care a great deal about individual player's success and do everything they can to ensure the players they are hyping have success.

Does anyone know if there is a place to find out about TV revenue and revenue from mechandise sales?

My theory (completely unfounded at this point) is that TV revenue is either not much more or slightly less valuable then mechandise sales are. That would make pimping various players far more important to the league then how long a team is on TV.
 
Cleveland and San Antonio are about the same market size as Portland. Doesn't make that much sense.

Cleveland does because LeBron is bigger than any one city. But San Antonio is a boring, small market NBA team who has won like 4 titles in the past 12 years.
 
Taken from the playoffs rigged thread (and actually shortened)

Some biases:
Small market teams vs. Large market teams
West coast teams vs. East Coast teams
Star/Superstar players vs. Average Players
Aggressive Players vs. passive players
Veteran Players vs. Young players
Preferred Players vs. Hated players

Basically, if you are a Portland Fan you are a masochist. A small market, west coast team, meh. However, we can overcome some of that by utilizing the other biases.
1) Superstar players. We suffer in multiple ways by losing Oden. When healthy, he is an undeniable superstar. Without him, we are on the wrong side of ref bias. Why did the blazers send all of the media Brandon Roy Ipods? The message is clear, we want the media convinced that he is a superstar. If they are convinced, they will write about it convincing the fans, who will convince the league/refs.
2) "Portland is a jump shooting team" Charles Barkley. Teams that shoot too many jump shots don't force the ref to make decisions and the other team doesn't get into foul trouble. Again, the loss of Oden hurts us in yet another way.
3) We are one of the youngest teams in the league, so we don't get the benefits of any doubts. Bayless drives into the pain, gets bumped, misses - no foul call. Sorry young man! The good news is that 2 or 3 years from now, he will get those calls. Of course, if we let Bayless go he will "mysteriously" blow up with another team.
4) "You can't touch Joe Dumars" NBA ref. The biggest damnation of the league made by Donahy that I am aware of is that he was able to determine which team would beat the point spread by knowing how the officials liked the star players of the other team. Ref preference is a STATISTICALLY MEASURABLE bias. Go ahead Michael Jordan, take 3 steps! The blazers are hoping that by being "nice guys" (like Dumars) that they will cash in on this ref preference. For the most part it isn't working. What does work? Ask the Suns coach who complained on every call (which really drove Mike Barrett crazy, lol).

Conclusion:
The game has many biases and in that sense it is rigged. However, it is not rigged in the sense that the outcome is predetermined. Part of the "game" is trying to become one of the teams in which the bias is for you instead of against you. Portland as a small market, west coast team has some special disadvantages, but we can overcome them! Go Blazers.
Click to expand...

TD isn't saying we CAN'T win a championship, he's saying is VERY difficult. I agree for the above reasons.
 
Donaghy didn't use the word "rigged." Nor did I. I don't think it's rigged to an exact model or outcome. But it's heavily weighed in a specific direction. It's not an exact science, but it's enough of a problem that to overcome it would be next to impossible, IMO.
 
STOMP said:
the entire state of Oregon has under 4 million people while Texas has over 24 million...

STOMP
Click to expand...

And yet 8 million more people watched the Blazers-Pistons Finals than watched Spurs-Cavs, the lowest rated Finals of all time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

BigGameDamian
OT Tim Donaghy: '100 percent' of NBA refs gamble
Replies
23
Views
5K
ripcityboy
ripcityboy
DaRizzle
OT: Donaghy writing "Tell All" book in Prison
Replies
21
Views
2K
Idog1976
Idog1976
DaRizzle
OT: Donaghy Book coming out, Will be on 60 Minutes
Replies
20
Views
1K
BlazerBeliever
BlazerBeliever
Shooter
Mike Fratello: "Blazers are a very deep team."
2 3
Replies
64
Views
4K
jlprk
jlprk
DaRizzle
The Book the NBA doesnt want you to Read (Donaghy)
2 3
Replies
73
Views
4K
Denny Crane
Denny Crane

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top