Politics Donald Trump Jr just confessed to Trump campaign election fraud

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OK, I've read through the thread, and I'm still confused. What law has allegedly been broken here? Don Jr. talking to a Russian foreign official was illegal somehow?

I guess I just think that if it is illegal, it's a stupid law. But if a law was broken, then it should certainly be prosecuted.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
OK, I've read through the thread, and I'm still confused. What law has allegedly been broken here? Don Jr. talking to a Russian foreign official was illegal somehow?

I guess I just think that if it is illegal, it's a stupid law. But if a law was broken, then it should certainly be prosecuted.
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Conspiracy is the most likely direct law to have been violated, so far as I can tell - but I do not specialize in this area of the law.*

Perjury is the most likely actual outcome down the road, I'd guess.

*or any other area of the law - I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV. Kingspeed is available if you need someone to play one on TV, however.

barfo
 
barfo said:
In any case, even if Hillary had done exactly what Trump Jr. did, doesn't your argument boil down to 'But she did it too!'?

barfo
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My argument is you don't care that she did. Or that she'd have done worse, without repercussions, if elected.

Also precedent is that it's how campaigns operate, Trump Jr's meeting wasn't out of the ordinary accepted practices.
 
barfo said:
Conspiracy is the most likely direct law to have been violated, so far as I can tell - but I do not specialize in this area of the law.*

Perjury is the most likely actual outcome down the road, I'd guess.

*or any other area of the law - I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV. Kingspeed is available if you need someone to play one on TV, however.

barfo
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Doesn't conspiracy still have to involve a plan to break a law, though? Like, toward what illegal act were they conspiring? I've seen reference to election fraud, but I don't understand what is fraudulent about attempting to obtain information.

The perjury part is the only thing that does make sense to me, specifically in regard to Kushner's non-disclosure of the meeting.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Doesn't conspiracy still have to involve a plan to break a law, though? Like, toward what illegal act were they conspiring? I've seen reference to election fraud, but I don't understand what is fraudulent about attempting to obtain information.

The perjury part is the only thing that does make sense to me, specifically in regard to Kushner's non-disclosure of the meeting.
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Foreign contributions to campaigns are illegal, it would seem that Jr. was interested in receiving such contributions.

Personally, if this is literally the end of the story and there is nothing else, I don't see any charges being brought. It's certainly unethical, but probably hard to get a criminal conviction.

But more likely there's more to come, and this specific meeting will eventually result in no charges because it will be a small part of a larger whole.

barfo
 
Denny Crane said:
My argument is you don't care that she did. Or that she'd have done worse, without repercussions, if elected.

Also precedent is that it's how campaigns operate, Trump Jr's meeting wasn't out of the ordinary accepted practices.
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I just haven't seen the email where Russia offers Hillary dirt on Trump, and she writes back to say "I love it". Do you have that email?

barfo
 
Denny Crane said:
My argument is you don't care that she did
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Trump and the FBI pardoned her from further investigation...Trump said so right after becoming elected.......now if we pardon Diaper Don, it'll have the same result....yet Diaper Don lied as did the president...current events....check em' out!
 
PtldPlatypus said:
The perjury part is the only thing that does make sense to me
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It's a pattern with this cabinet.....I find that troubling but I agree he's guilty of perjury....nobody has accused Diaper Don of selling state secrets or anything...he was an interested buyer, not a seller from the email info....and balked anyway
 
barfo said:
Foreign contributions to campaigns are illegal, it would seem that Jr. was interested in receiving such contributions.

Personally, if this is literally the end of the story and there is nothing else, I don't see any charges being brought. It's certainly unethical, but probably hard to get a criminal conviction.

But more likely there's more to come, and this specific meeting will eventually result in no charges because it will be a small part of a larger whole.

barfo
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So you're saying that Don Ralphio and his boys are in something of a pickle?

Well, that's a start. A nothingburger with pickle is better than nothing.
 
barfo said:
I just haven't seen the email where Russia offers Hillary dirt on Trump, and she writes back to say "I love it". Do you have that email?

barfo
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We've all seen the dossier, which is more concrete proof of ethical (at least) violations.
 
riverman said:
Trump and the FBI pardoned her from further investigation...Trump said so right after becoming elected.......now if we pardon Diaper Don, it'll have the same result....yet Diaper Don lied as did the president...current events....check em' out!
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Email server and the dossier are different "crimes."
 
barfo said:
By whom? Be specific.

barfo
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Clinton campaign. Those who paid for it. Those who passed it on to the FBI, knowing none of it had merit. Those who shared it with Harry Reid. Those who shared it with the media wing of the Democrat Party.

You act like it's OK to pay a US company to do exactly what you accuse Trump's campaign of doing.

One is somehow a crime or even treason, the other is not.

We should all rejoice. Clinton lost.

The new precedent seems to be "my guy lost, so we'll destroy the democratic process."
 
Denny Crane said:
Clinton campaign. Those who paid for it. Those who passed it on to the FBI, knowing none of it had merit. Those who shared it with Harry Reid. Those who shared it with the media wing of the Democrat Party.
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Who are these people? Name them.

Wait, they paid for something they knew didn't have merit? Why would they do that? The point of outsourced opposition research is to get actual dirt, not made-up dirt. Campaigns are fully capable of making stuff up in-house.

So, giving information to the FBI is a bad thing in your book? Did you believe that before Trump Jr. failed to do so, or is this a recent epiphany?

You act like it's OK to pay a US company to do exactly what you accuse Trump's campaign of doing.
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Yes, you can do things with a US company that you cannot do with the Russian government. Is that really a shock to you?

barfo
 
I already showed you WaPost saying Clinton associates paid for the dossier.

Here's Democrat Adam Schiff basically reading from the dossier. These Russian sources he believes sure seem to not be helping Trump. The Russians supposedly didn't help Clinton, either.

This is the transcript of his opening statement at a public hearing of the House Intelligence Committee.

http://time.com/4706721/comey-hearing-adam-schiff-transcript/

According to Christopher Steele, a former British intelligence officer who is reportedly held in high regard by U.S. Intelligence, Russian sources tell him...

According to Steele’s Russian sources...

Also, according to Steele’s Russian sources...
 
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/10/forgetting-the-dirty-dossier-on-trump/

“Steele, who had worked for Britain’s MI-6 in Russia, said he tapped into ex-colleagues and unnamed sources inside Russia, including leadership figures in the Kremlin, to piece together a series of sensational reports that became the basis of the current congressional and FBI investigations into Trump’s alleged ties to Moscow.

“Since he was not able to go to Russia himself, Steele based his reports mostly on multiple hearsay from anonymous Russians who claim to have heard some information from their government contacts before passing it on to Steele’s associates who then gave it to Steele who compiled this mix of rumors and alleged inside dope into ‘raw’ intelligence reports.

“Besides the anonymous sourcing and the sources’ financial incentives to dig up dirt, Steele’s reports had numerous other problems, including the inability of a variety of investigators to confirm key elements, such as the salacious claim that several years ago Russian intelligence operatives secretly videotaped Trump having prostitutes urinate on him while he lay in the same bed in Moscow’s Ritz-Carlton used by President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama.

“That tantalizing tidbit was included in Steele’s opening report to his new clients, dated June 20, 2016. Apparently, it proved irresistible in whetting the appetite of Clinton’s mysterious benefactors who were financing Steele’s dirt digging and who have kept their identities (and the amounts paid) hidden. Also in that first report were the basic outlines of what has become the scandal that is now threatening the survival of Trump’s embattled presidency.”
 
The CIA also gets information from Russians. Pretty sure the Russian government isn't volunteering that info. There's a difference there.

I see that you can't even provide the names of who paid for the dossier, much less the names of those who leaked it. Your standard of proof is a bit lacking on this.

barfo
 
Made the mistake of actually reading something Denny wrote. Felt thousands of neurons die screaming. Vow not to fall for that again.
 
barfo said:
Foreign contributions to campaigns are illegal, it would seem that Jr. was interested in receiving such contributions.
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Does information count as a "contribution"? That seems like a stretch. Or was there separate discussion of some sort of material consideration being provided by the Russians?
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Does information count as a "contribution"? That seems like a stretch. Or was there separate discussion of some sort of material consideration being provided by the Russians?
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I don't know (see prior disclaimer) but dozens of talking heads have said that contributions do not have to be cash, just anything of value. And opposition research clearly has value.

barfo
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I told you yesterday, the Republicans ordered and paid for it.

True story.
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he Donald Trump–Russia dossier is a private intelligence dossier that was written by Christopher Steele, a former British MI6 intelligence officer. It contains unverified allegations of misconduct and collusion between Donald Trump and his campaign and the Russian government during the 2016 U.S. presidential election and the period preceding the election. The contents of the dossier were publicly reported on January 10, 2017.[1]

The dossier primarily discusses possible Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election. The media and the intelligence community have stressed that accusations in the dossier have not been verified. Most experts have treated the dossier with caution, but in February, it was reported that some details related to conversations between foreign nationals had been independently corroborated, giving U.S. intelligence and law enforcement greater confidence in some aspects of the dossier as investigations continued. Trump himself has denounced the report, calling it "fake news" and "phony."

The dossier was produced as part of opposition research during the 2016 U.S. presidential election. The research was initially funded by Republicans who did not want Trump to be the Republican Party nominee for president. After Trump won the primaries, a Democratic client took over the funding; and, following Trump's election, Steele continued working on the report pro bono and passed on the information to British and American intelligence services.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump–Russia_dossier
 
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