OT Don't Be Dissin' The American Flag

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ABM said:
Well, I wouldn't go that far...

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It's really time to bring Santa Claus into this conversation! Every mall in America gets a lap!
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ABM said:
The point is, protesting is one thing...getting involved, quite another. When we see these protests, are we doing anything about it? I mean, really? If so, then what? My larger point was, I think these many players have a much greater opportunity to get their collective message across than simply taking a knee. An that's not a disrespect to them. It's an invitation to an opportunity to make larger strides. An, no, this is not privileged white boy talking here.
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You do know that you can call for more action without passively-aggressively casting shade on people who protest, right? That's why you're looking like the poster child for white entitlement and concern trolling--someone who was actually hoping to see positive change in a good faith manner wouldn't be putting it as "Sure, protest and all is great BUT..." It's pretty clear that you're either looking for an angle to attack protestors or else you're just acting like a "privileged white boy" who lacks awareness.

Also, what are YOU doing to make that change? I mean, it's one thing to tell everyone else what they really oughta be doing, but what concrete actions are you taking to address racial injustice, since clearly action on this issue is so very important to you.
 
Minstrel said:
You do know that you can call for more action without passively-aggressively casting shade on people who protest, right? That's why you're looking like the poster child for white entitlement and concern trolling--someone who was actually hoping to see positive change in a good faith manner wouldn't be putting it as "Sure, protest and all is great BUT..." It's pretty clear that you're either looking for an angle to attack protestors or else you're just acting like a "privileged white boy" who lacks awareness.

Also, what are YOU doing to make that change? I mean, it's one thing to tell everyone else what they really oughta be doing, but what concrete actions are you taking to address racial injustice, since clearly action on this issue is so very important to you.
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I stated what I'm doing in another post.
 
ABM said:
I stated what I'm doing in another post.
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You mentioned that you'll be working with kids, which is great. I think everyone who can, should. You haven't mentioned what you're going to do to address racial injustice and police misconduct. You know, the things people are protesting and what you said they should really be addressing with concrete actions.
 
Minstrel said:
You mentioned that you'll be working with kids, which is great. I think everyone who can, should. You haven't mentioned what you're going to do to address racial injustice and police misconduct. You know, the things people are protesting and what you said they should really be addressing with concrete actions.
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I work with kids way too much. Even at work. What I'd love is a few days a week I get to work with adults.
 
Minstrel said:
You mentioned that you'll be working with kids, which is great. I think everyone who can, should. You haven't mentioned what you're going to do to address racial injustice and police misconduct. You know, the things people are protesting and what you said they should really be addressing with concrete actions.
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What I said was, I think sometimes taking action in other ways outweighs protesting. The message I'm sending those kids of color in the inner-city will stay with them. It shows I care because, well, I do. The players can kneel. That's fine.
 
ABM said:
What I said was, I think sometimes taking action in other ways outweighs protesting. The message I'm sending those kids of color in the inner-city will stay with them. It shows I care because, well, I do. The players can kneel. That's fine.
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It's admirable that you are doing that, and it's a great message to send kids. But I think children of color (thank god we don't call them COC) would much rather things on a macro level change, since it's the macro level that is the bigger issue (thus why it's macro and not micro).
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I felt like Barry Bond at the steroid convention softball game. If someone is going to pitch one in there like that, I'm swinging!
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Suuuuurrrrre........if a white guy hits all those home runs he’s a “natural”....but if a black guy does it, he’s on ‘roids (never proven). I started out joking but it hit me that white Mark McGwire takes ‘roids (and admits it....after testing positive) he gets all kinds of MLB coaching jobs. A black guy get accused (nothing more) and he’s blackballed. That’s how “woke” MLB is......
 
julius said:
It's admirable that you are doing that, and it's a great message to send kids. But I think children of color (thank god we don't call them COC) would much rather things on a macro level change, since it's the macro level that is the bigger issue (thus why it's macro and not micro).
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OK, so thru the protests, rules and regulations are then made to fix things? Rules and regulations don't change hearts. People do. And that's the reason I'm personally getting involved . It's what my dad did as related way above in here. Grass roots, ground level productive activism is where it's at with me. Again,, the players can take a knee. That's fine.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
Suuuuurrrrre........if a white guy hits all those home runs he’s a “natural”....but if a black guy does it, he’s on ‘roids (never proven). I started out joking but it hit me that white Mark McGwire takes ‘roids (and admits it....after testing positive) he gets all kinds of MLB coaching jobs. A black guy get accused (nothing more) and he’s blackballed. That’s how “woke” MLB is......
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I remember back when Canseco released his book and everyone said it was all BS. I think everyone named in that book was taking steroids.
 
They're doing more than taking a knee.
 
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ABM said:
Very cool. I plan to get involved with rocketown in Nashville. When it reopens, I'll have the opportunity to rub shoulders with some of the less fortunate kids in our community. Kids of all colors. Modeling and mentoring are very good things.

https://www.rocketown.com/
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I hope they haven't read any of your posts on here.
 
ABM said:
OK, so thru the protests, rules and regulations are then made to fix things? Rules and regulations don't change hearts. People do. And that's the reason I'm personally getting involved . It's what my dad did as related way above in here. Grass roots, ground level productive activism is where it's at with me. Again,, the players can take a knee. That's fine.
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True, they don't change hearts, but if you change institutions, and bring it to the light, it will change hearts.

How many times have we heard from black people that the police treat them differently, and people acted like they were just 'whining'?

Or how many times have we heard about red-lining, and people acted like it was nothing bad.

Or how many times have we heard about labeling POC on welfare as "welfare queens", and did nothing about it? (despite the fact that a higher rate of whites are on welfare than that of blacks)

You change those rules AND change the way people address/think about each other. I thnk that's the point you're missing. If you just change one of them (how people think about each other, etc), it doesn't matter much if they're still treated as 2nd and 3rd class citizens by the people in power.

What good does it do someone to report a crime against you, if the person you report it to doesn't have to be held accountable for taking you seriously? Or there is a "good old boy" network happening?

Why do you think blacks tend to go to the police less than whites do? They're treated differently than whites are by the police/government. Why would you go to them if you know it's pointless? They'll say you're lying, say you're a thug, accuse you of something you didn't do...after a while it becomes pointless.

Man, I hate the fact that in 2020, I'm having to mansplain (whitesplain?) this.
 
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THE HCP said:
I hope they haven't read any of your posts on here.
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As I mentioned above, I can have philisophical conversations with my Black friend
julius said:
True, they don't change hearts, but if you change institutions, and bring it to the light, it will change hearts.

How many times have we heard from black people that the police treat them differently, and people acted like they were just 'whining'?

Or how many times have we heard about red-lining, and people acted like it was nothing bad.

Or how many times have we heard about labeling POC on welfare as "welfare queens", and did nothing about it? (despite the fact that a higher rate of whites are on welfare than that of blacks)

You change those rules AND change the way people address/think about each other. I thnk that's the point you're missing. If you just change one of them (how people think about each other, etc), it doesn't matter much if they're still treated as 2nd and 3rd class citizens by the people in power.

What good does it do someone to report a crime against you, if the person you report it to doesn't have to be held accountable for taking you seriously? Or there is a "good old boy" network happening?

Why do you think blacks tend to go to the police less than whites do? They're treated differently than whites are by the police/government. Why would you go to them if you know it's pointless? They'll say you're lying, say you're a thug, accuse you of something you didn't do...after a while it becomes pointless.

Man, I hate the fact that in 2020, I'm having to mansplain (whitesplain?) this.
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I'm simply saying we've had "protests" in our country for decades. It takes MORE than protests!
 
ABM said:
As I mentioned above, I can have philisophical conversations with my Black friend


I'm simply saying we've had "protests" in our country for decades. It takes MORE than protests!
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Thing is, we haven't had major protests like this. This is even more so than the ones in the 60's. But the ones in the 60's wrought change.

Most of the protests people have had in the past were minor protests, and were very VERY one sided, as in a very homogeneous protest group.

This one is different. it's not only bringing out POC, but it's bringing out whites. It's bringing out old and young. It's bringing out people in DIFFERENT continents, man. We have protests happening around the world.

That is change. And unlike most of the protests of years past, this one seems to have staying power.
 
ABM said:
As I mentioned above, I can have philisophical conversations with my Black friend


I'm simply saying we've had "protests" in our country for decades. It takes MORE than protests!
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And the change happens *because* of protests.

You think the civil rights would've happened and they not protested/boycotted the bus system? or walked across the bridge? Or sat at the counters?

Protests opened the eyes to many americans that we needed to change. If it wasn't for the protests, and people actually seeing what was happening, nothing would've happened.

We love to ignore things as a country. it's our super power. These protests are too big to ignore, and will cause those in power to change. Whether or not they change or "change" is yet to be seen. But you seem to be acting like, or implying, that these protesters aren't also demanding change in our society.

These aren't just people who are protesting "for the sake of protesting".
 
ABM said:
I'm simply saying we've had "protests" in our country for decades. It takes MORE than protests!
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Thanks, Captain Obvious. Who ever said protests are all it takes? You can make that extremely obvious point without constantly belittling protestors. Protest is extremely important, as is donating money, donating time, lobbying politicians, creating outreach organizations, etc. Constantly being condescending about protestors in order to make a point that everyone, including protestors, already knows just makes you look entitled, smug and not interested in talking particularly seriously about the issue.
 
julius said:
Thing is, we haven't had major protests like this. This is even more so than the ones in the 60's. But the ones in the 60's wrought change.

Most of the protests people have had in the past were minor protests, and were very VERY one sided, as in a very homogeneous protest group.

This one is different. it's not only bringing out POC, but it's bringing out whites. It's bringing out old and young. It's bringing out people in DIFFERENT continents, man. We have protests happening around the world.

That is change. And unlike most of the protests of years past, this one seems to have staying power.
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Yeah, but the 60's protests brought complete equal rights law changes that needed to happen! The issues at stake now are of the heart. How do you go about changing hearts? With protests? I say, yeah, OK, but a lot more than just that.
 
Minstrel said:
Thanks, Captain Obvious. Who ever said protests are all it takes? You can make that extremely obvious point without constantly belittling protestors. Protest is extremely important, as is donating money, donating time, lobbying politicians, creating outreach organizations, etc. Constantly being condescending about protestors in order to make a point that everyone, including protestors, already knows just makes you look entitled, smug and not interested in talking particularly seriously about the issue.
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We're on different planes, bro.
 
ABM said:
Yeah, but the 60's protests brought complete equal rights law changes that needed to happen! The issues at stake now are of the heart. How do you go about changing hearts? With protests? I say, yeah, OK, but a lot more than just that.
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Hold on, are you actually stating that systemic racism, and police brutality towards black people, where the police get away with *MURDER*, is just an issue of the heart?

I don't know how to respond to that. I mean, I'm literally at a loss for words on how to respond to something that is so far off base from reality.
 
julius said:
Hold on, are you actually stating that systemic racism, and police brutality towards black people, where the police get away with *MURDER*, is just an issue of the heart?

I don't know how to respond to that. I mean, I'm literally at a loss for words on how to respond to something that is so far off base from reality.
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I think, "issues of the heart", or however you'd like to put it, human nature? It definitely plays a part in it, and it played a part in why those systems are there, to begin with too. However changing the system's to be about justice is the place to start, because changing human nature is generational, and much harder (if not impossible) to do.
It's why protesting those systems is ok and good and a big part of what makes a society move forward. Making the systems better will not "make it all go away", it will mean that justice is universal across race, world-views, sexuality, gender, etc. At least if the system is good.
 
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