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e_blazer said:
It seems to me that what's changed in our national discussion about minimum wage is the notion that a minimum wage job is supposed to be a living wage job. Minimum wage jobs used to be viewed as starter jobs for high school kids or a way for a spouse to make a few extra bucks to bolster the household income. Now we're talking about those jobs as if they're careers. It seems to me that we need some of those old fashioned minimum wage jobs, but that employers shouldn't make permanent career jobs minimum wage positions. Both sides need to get real about this discussion. High school kids flipping burgers to make extra money don't need a living wage. The undereducated minority workers who can't qualify for better jobs do need a minimally livable wage.
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Exactly. Most people, by far, who have minimum wage jobs end up moving up the salary scale as they get older.
 
Robert Reich is the con man.

I read his blog regularly. Great entertainment.

And I actually like him.
 
Reich's $200M figure is just bullshit. But I don't expect any less.

4665804567_2fcecbcd52_b.jpg


http://www.ibtimes.com/how-much-money-did-trump-get-his-dad-small-loan-controversy-explained-2422185

How Much Money Did Trump Get From His Dad? The Small Loan Controversy Explained

Trump initially disclosed the loan at a debate last year, saying it was $1 million — not "very much compared to what I've built," CNN reported. He echoed the statement this past spring. "Believe me, I started off with $1 million," Trump said at the time. "I built a company that's worth more than $10 billion. And I say it not in a bragging way, but that's the kind of thinking we need."

But a Wall Street Journal investigation published earlier this week uncovered a document showing that, in 1985, Trump owed his dad and his dad's companies roughly $14 million. A spokesman for the Trump campaign told the Journal Trump had previously been talking about a 1975 loan that was, indeed, just $1 million.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...474938786594&tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.aad5f0978e5a

[Update, Sept. 23: The Wall Street Journal reported that a 1985 casino-license document showed that Donald Trump owed his father and father’s businesses about $14 million.]
 
Denny Crane said:
Exactly. Most people, by far, who have minimum wage jobs end up moving up the salary scale as they get older.
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Well, even if only 10% of non-youth don't, that's 10% of about 200 million in the workforce. Could be 15%. I don't know. They are highly visible if you have a minimum wage job.
 
riverman said:
First you don't know anything about my biz....my employees were well cared for and it's not a pot shot .....my response was to Marz statement that I've never worked for a man...only been a govt employee all my career..now that's a pot shot.....and sometimes it's not easy to take pot shots....say for a pro democracy student in Beijing for example....could cost your life
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No it is not a pot shot. It is the impression you have given. As for taking the statement, never worked for a man, to mean never worked for a woman, is just being obtuse.
You know, back on track, you never worked for a poor man, damn near nobody has. But give the impression you never worked for a man, rich or poor, so you have never experienced working for a rich man, like most of us do except for those that work for a government agent. Entirely different. In order to employ you or me, a rich man must make a profit or he can't stay in business and employ you or me. As you say, you have experienced this side of the equation, treating your employees well you say. Well wonderful, you were unable to keep the business going, the rich men I worked for kept the business in operation. Some failed the at one time or the other, but were successfully in business when I worked for them. These qualities are not to be scoffed at and the man should not be shunned for being a rich man. We need them far more than we need government to serve us poor despicable bastards that never make the big time.
 
Denny Crane said:
The workers can negotiate their own wages. It's silly to take a perfectly capable business and destroy it by mandating the employees be paid more than the business can afford. If the workers LIKE working for the business, let 'em.
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What is your source that minimum wage workers without health insurance and benefits work there because they like their jobs?
 
jlprk said:
Well, even if only 10% of non-youth don't, that's 10% of about 200 million in the workforce. Could be 15%. I don't know. They are highly visible if you have a minimum wage job.
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The workforce is maybe 120M-140M.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/mi...racteristics-of-minimum-wage-workers-2014.pdf

In 2014, 77.2 million workers age 16 and older in the United States were paid at hourly rates, representing 58.7 percent of all wage and salary workers. Among those paid by the hour, 1.3 million earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 3.0 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 3.9 percent of all hourly paid workers

The percentage of hourly paid workers earning the prevailing federal minimum wage or less declined from 4.3 percent in 2013 to 3.9 percent in 2014. This remains well below the figure of 13.4 percent in 1979 (JIMMY CARTER), when data were first collected on a regular basis. (See table 10.)​

3.9% of 77.2M.

Do the math. ~3M. That's EVERYONE, including youth.


1.549M of 61.9M workers 25 years and older. (Table 1)​
 
And ~550k total aged 30-40 (Table 7) make federal minimum wage or less.

(Those working food service who get tips don't have to be paid full minimum wage)
 
Denny Crane said:
Among those paid by the hour, 1.3 million earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 1.7 million had wages below the federal minimum. Together, these 3.0 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 3.9 percent of all hourly paid workers
The percentage of hourly paid workers earning the prevailing federal minimum wage or less declined from 4.3 percent in 2013 to 3.9 percent in 2014.
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"The prevailing federal minimum wage" is lower than in most states. All progressive states set their own minimum wage.
 
Denny Crane said:
11 million millionaires.
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I mentally corrected this at the time of the first post. Very odd other did not also, as anyone knows there are more than 11 on a basketball team.
I think it is taking every opportunity to be obtuse, but I sure don't get how that supports any argument against Trump.
 
MarAzul said:
a rich man must make a profit
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unless they use losses to pay less tax...and again...I do not shun Trump because he's rich...I shun him because of his own words, speeches and ways of dealing with things...and I'm sure there are plenty who admire his methods.....I'm not one of them
 
MarAzul said:
Very odd other did not also, as anyone knows there are more than 11 on a basketball team
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Sarcasm apparently one would assume is something you might also pick up on the first read....Denny is so fact crazed that I had to take the dig at his wrong figures...just like you kind of took a dig at who you think I am in the class structure of the work field...or that someone in education wouldn't be experienced in business or finance......assumptions are a slippery slope. I built a restaurant that was great, but never intended to make me a billionaire...I didn't lose it...I sold it when I realized I'd need 3 times the operating capital for a few years before I'd start to recoup the investment....and I wanted to move. Failure more often than not leads to wisdom.
 
riverman said:
unless they use losses to pay less tax
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Nope, that does not change the reality. You can't not live on losses, losses must become profits or you are eventually done.

His methods are superior to those of the man that can not find a way to continue in business. Even if you do not like it.
 
MarAzul said:
Sorry you see it as a dig. I was only reflecting the image you painted. Never saw you writting of working for another person in business.
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My wife and I owned and operated two businesses in Taiwan and at the same time I taught several morning classes a week at the Medical College...both worlds coexist more often than you think
 
riverman said:
My wife and I owned and operated two businesses in Taiwan and at the same time I taught several morning classes a week at the Medical College...both worlds coexist more often than you think
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I am to gather here, that you have worked for a rich man?
 
jlprk said:
"The prevailing federal minimum wage" is lower than in most states. All progressive states set their own minimum wage.
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So what?

The "progressive" states created all sorts of poverty and especially child poverty and starvation.
 
MarAzul said:
I mentally corrected this at the time of the first post. Very odd other did not also, as anyone knows there are more than 11 on a basketball team.
I think it is taking every opportunity to be obtuse, but I sure don't get how that supports any argument against Trump.
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That's the only way @barfo can be right about something.

"million millionaires" next to each other looked odd when I first typed it, I guess.
 
riverman said:
I'm a broke assed commie
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Ha! Well sir, you do sort of give off that vibe. See how long it took to get you to admit you worked for a rich man. Probably take another year to get you to say you appreciated the work.
 
Denny Crane said:
The "progressive" states created all sorts of poverty and especially child poverty and starvation
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Russia created all sorts of poverty and starvation, not that I'd call them progressive as if it's a bad word or something...the cost of living hasn't helped the poor by any stretch.....big pharma, real estate ballooning into the biggest get rich quick scheme in the country driving up housing costs....that's what many Oregonians despise about the California transplants that come up here to buy inflate and sell property....the working class can only take so many rent raises and now few can dream of owning a home.....but we now have more billionaires
 
MarAzul said:
Robert Reich! Now there is a man that speaks with a forked tongue. The opposite end of the human race from Trump.
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LOL

Bill Clinton promised his cabinet would "look like America."

I think they were all midgets/little people. Shalayla, Reich, Albright, probably others I'm not recalling. I do remember seeing them all together at the State of the Union address and it was interesting to see so many little people.

I guess according to Clinton, America looks like little people. Not that I have anything against little people - I don't.
 
riverman said:
Russia created all sorts of poverty and starvation, not that I'd call them progressive as if it's a bad word or something...the cost of living hasn't helped the poor by any stretch.....big pharma, real estate ballooning into the biggest get rich quick scheme in the country driving up housing costs....that's what many Oregonians despise about the California transplants that come up here to buy inflate and sell property....the working class can only take so many rent raises and now few can dream of owning a home.....but we now have more billionaires
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They absolutely were socialist/progressive.

From about the same time as the Russian Revolution, the ideas of the Progressives:

http://www.salon.com/2006/03/04/bruinius/
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-progressive-history-of-eugenics-1456521508
http://www.eugenicsarchive.org/html/eugenics/essay1text.html

You know, to make a more perfect society.

Fuck that.
 
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