Drouin (TB) requests trade

[chuckd3534]

He is not a difference maker. And that is where we agree to disagree. You would let him walk for nothing. After giving up what we gave up for him I think that is crazy. The only way that would have made any sense at all is if we were just crushing it and playing like the best team in the league which is not the case.

It simply is not smart business to let him walk for nothing. I also think it is interesting how you just decide to make up what we would get for him in a trade. I would NOT deal him for picks and prospects...NOT. I would only deal him if we can get good value as I said.

It certainly can be possible to flip him to a team for a scoring forward. A team that is looking for a puck moving dman but has some excess forward depth. That's what I would focus on.

OR you flip Yandle for picks/prospects and then immediately flip those for the forward we need. One thing I will promise you is unless we are out of it at the trade DL, which will not be the case, we will not simply flip Yandle for picks/prospects and call it a day. That will not happen.

I also think it is interesting how you say if we are going to do anything this spring he needs to be here. I couldn't disagree more. If he is here because we can resign him...awesome. If he is gone and it helps us get the forward we need...that is awesome also. I simply do not think Yandle is near the player you think he is.

 

[NYR31]

Yandle is the most gifted defenseman this team has had in years and it's not even close. But with AV playing him on the third pair behind a struggling Staal and on the second unit of the PP behind a less skilled McDonagh, I am not at all surprised he wants no part of resigning here. His minutes are significantly down from his career average.

I'm glad we gave up all those assets for a guy the coach had no plans to use correctly.

Some people just don't get it, Prod.

This is Yandle's age 29 season so he's not even old and he's had 2 years with 50+ points, 5yrs with 40+ points, and 3 years in which he's had 20+ assists on the PP. If he hasn't been a difference maker on the PP i think it speaks more of our PP stupidity than the player itself.

Our best offensive dman not named Yandle is McDonagh, and he's only had 1 yr with 40+ pts and only 1 yr in which he's cracked more than 10 assists on the PP.

Yandle is so far and above better than what we've had in the past that not sure why people don't grasp this.

 

[chuckd3534]

And Prod I am TOTALLY for keeping him if we resign him. I cannot see you saying we should keep him and let him walk for nothing this summer. I know you know that is an awful idea, especially considering what we gave up for him. Plus it isn't going to happen, so it is what it is.

If we could resign him I am all for keeping him. We cannot so he has to get moved. Is what it is.

 

[chuckd3534]

Agreed 31...I think we all get it like you said. The downside is we cannot resign him...and there is the issue. If we could keep him, and 100% blame management for putting us in this spot, I would sign him today. We cannot resign him so we have to do what we have to do.

So I agree with you guys 1000000000000% Prod and 31.

 

[Ranger71]

I don't get it either guys. We're going to rely on Boyle and the others to create offense through 2 months of playoff action? You only trade him if we're out of a playoff spot.

 

[chuckd3534]

71 is on record as saying we should keep him and let him walk for nothing this summer. I respect that opinion but disagree with that approach.

Do you guys feel the same way Prod and 31? Because for better or for worse that is the decision that needs to be made in the next 7 weeks.

Keep him and he walks for nothing this summer OR deal him and get value now. I really don't see any other option unless Staal can be moved.

Sadly it is what it is. No one is debating whether or not he should be moved if he was signed for next season...that would be a huge no brainer NO.

 

[chuckd3534]

I agree 71...isn't ideal, but it is the only option since I don't think letting him walk for nothing is an option given our situation.

 

[chuckd3534]

The thing is we are dancing around Yandle's value to the team. I think we all agree on his value to the team pretty much. Maybe some think it is a little higher than others, but for the most part we are all in the same area with regards to his value to the team.

I don't think that needs to be the focus because we all pretty much agree on that. That simply is not the question or debate here IMO. The question or debate here is do we keep him at the DL and let him walk for nothing OR do we move him for some value now so we aren't left with him bolting this summer. And by value I mean a forward who can improve us upfront. If he was signed this discussion wouldn't even be happening...I agree with you guys.

So I ask Prod and 31...do you simply keep him at the DL and let him walk for nothing? 71 gave his opinion. Curious what your opinions are.

BTW...it is good to have a nice hockey discussion in here without people flipping out or ripping others. This is what the board should be for...good discussion....

 

[Ranger71]

Why isnt it an option Chuck? He's giving us the value we traded for, so why this urgency to recoup things as if he's been a dud. My point is we need him AND we need a forward which can be had imo through dealing a Hayes or Miller(which id rather not)plus a pick or prospect. Would a team like Winnipeg for example even want ufa Yandle in a deal for Ladd? They'd want a young player and assets.

 

[chuckd3534]

Because I personally don't think it is smart for us, given where we are, to let him walk after 1 full season here given all we gave up for him.

I think we can move Yandle for the forward we need. Maybe I will be wrong.

Also doesn't mean my opinion is right. Maybe they will keep him and let him walk for nothing, I personally don't see them doing that though. That's my opinion. Again doesn't mean I am right and doesn't mean you are wrong for disagreeing. We simply disagree on that.

All good.

 

[chuckd3534]

Maybe if we were dominating and looking like a juggernaut you think about it. But if we are a solid team that has a shot, but certainly isn't the favorite to win the cup, which it appears we will be, I think it makes even less sense to keep him and let him walk for nothing.

Again...my opinion. Doesn't mean that is the only opinion or the only way to play it.

I also think it is kind of interesting that you knock the D and the team and certainly don't act as if we are a legit SC threat 71, yet you want to keep Yandle and let him walk for nada. That doesn't add up to me, but again all good.

 

[Ranger71]

I just don't think our D is strong enough from an O standpoint to lose him and be successful in terms of winning 4 series. He's almost like having an extra forward. If McDonagh was more of an offensive threat maybe you could get away with it. Plus that was the whole point of trading for Yandle, to have him for 2 runs.

 

[chuckd3534]

I don't think you think we are good enough to do it anyway 71, unless I misread all your posts. So that is confusing to me.

If we could resign Yandle tomorrow I would do it and keep him here long term. I want that 1000% on the record from me. Sadly we cannot so it is what it is. Early on I felt like you do 71, but as I have seen it play out with him here I changed my opinion.

At any rate, I respect your opinion I just disagree...what makes the world go round...all good.

 

[Ranger71]

Right now we aren't a legit SC threat, but not getting forward help and losing Yandle certainly wouldn't help things. Hopefully Buchnevich can come over soon too. And yeah all good for sure, good banter.

 

[chuckd3534]

All I'll say is if you don't think they are a legit SC threat, and again maybe I am misreading all of your posts but I don't think you think we are really that close, then it makes even less sense to keep Yandle and let him walk for nothing. Then 1000000000% it must be SC or bust with him this season because he is gone this summer.

So if you feel we cannot win it anyway not sure why you would want to keep him and let him walk.

Going to be interesting to see what Gorton does with him. Right now my money is on he'll be moved. Who knows though...maybe we'll all be happy and somehow Staal gets moved and we can resign Yandle....

 

[chuckd3534]

Maybe we should all get together and play power ball...1.3 billion dollars on the line. Then we can buy the Rangers and do it our way...LOL.

 

[Ranger71]

Don't worry i'm winning it myself.

 

[NYR2009]

The cap today is at 74M:

Here are the line breakdowns:
Nash, Zuc, Brassard = 17.3
Stepan, Krieder, Miller = 9.85
Hayes, Linberg, Fast = 5.35
Moore, Glass, Stallberg = 3.75

Stall, Klien = 8.6
Girardi, McD = 10.2
Yandle, Dylan = 3.25

Lundqvist = 8.5
Ranta = .75

Total = 67.55 today not including Boyle who is gone next year. Cap is at 74M

RFAs are Hayes, Krider, Miller and McIlrath.

Hayes is making 3.75M per year today. Severely overpaid. Krider is making 2.5. Both certainly not pulling their weight and do not deserve any raise at all. Trade both of them. I am sure both positions can be filled with better players for the same money. Justin Willliams makes less than Hayes and way better than Hayes. So let's say no change there and both are replaced with better options and same money. 3.75M for forth line is enough no matter who is playing instead of Moore and Stallberg and hopefully Glass is gone. So that stays the same too. From this list of forwards Miller is the only one who deserves a raise and lets it should be no more than 1M.
So that brings the number to 68.55M.

So that leaves Yandle and McIlrath. So if Yandle is signed for 6.5 and McIlrath for 1.5 that is 8M and that is 4.75 M raise on from where we are today. That would equal 73M cap hit, plus one or two Megna's would be 74/75M. If Cap goes up by 4M or so then we can sign another forward.

So please tell me why can't we fit Yandle next year? Hayes, Krider,Glass are not pulling their weight. Get rid of them.

 

[chuckd3534]

Because it is terrible cap management to have Staal AND Girardi AND McDonagh AND Yandle AND Klein all signed for decent to big money for many years. What do you do with all the D prospects we have? Skjei never gets a chance huh since you have Staal, McD, and Yandle all signed for MANY years.

So it isn't just can we literally afford a way to resign Yandle, sure we could find a way, it's also terrible team and cap management to have that much money tied up in a goalie and a D. We would be the most unbalanced team in the NHL by 7000 miles. No shot that happens. We need some cheap kids, Yandle and Skjei, on D to balance it out. The one positive would be if they resigned Yandle we may get a shot in the NHL since we are the players they could afford to round out the forwards....

Also your comments on Miller and Hayes and Kreider won't hold up. Okay you don't feel they deserve a raise or that Miller deserves more than a 1M bump, awesome you feel that way, but it means nothing when actually working to get them resigned.

If someone wants to keep Yandle for this run and then move on this summer, all good. Maybe the Rangers will decide to go that route, it is possible...especially if we get hot and show we are a legit cup threat.

 

[Ranger71]

Buchnevich will take Moore's spot and Skjei should replace Boyle so that's about 4m saved. If they can deal Staal somehow, maybe to Carolina in the summer for a bottom 6 guy and pick/prospect that could open another 3m or so. Then perhaps you can move on Yandle, who by all accounts seems to like it in NY. I don't know where the reports of him not wanting to come back are coming from. Slight raises to the rfa's will eat a little of the cap space but they could have 6-7m to play with, especially if it rises to 73-74.

 

[chuckd3534]

Yeah...but you just painted a picture where Staal gets moved. That is the only shot. I feel pretty confident that no way is Yandle here with Staal and G and McD. That's the point...and honestly I wouldn't want that anyway. That would be a terrible way to build a team. That's like 22 mill plus tied up in 4 dmen. Doesn't even count Klein. And an 8.5 mill goalie.

Again, I know fans complicate things, but this is simple as it always has been...Staal or Yandle cannot be here long term...and with Staal signed and Yandle not he is the odd man out it appears.

And McIlrath takes Boyle's spot. Skjei would be odd man out if Yandle and Staal and McD are all here...which will not happen.

 

[chuckd3534]

It isn't simply can we find money, you actually need to build a well balanced team...and having all that money tied up in the D and goalie is far from balanced.

I simply cannot see that happening. Much better shot they let Yandle play through the season here and walk then sign him long term with all those other dmen signed already...unless they can deal a dman...then the dynamic changes.

 

[theProdigy223]

Chuck where we disagree is with you saying Yandle isn't a difference maker. He has the talent and ability to make game changing plays, and he's done so several times already. He out produces every other dman while getting less ice time and it would be a huge, huge blow to lose him. There are no reasonable replacements for his offensive skill, especially with Boyle leaving after this year.

I also don't know if I believe these reports that he "doesn't want to sign here." It's one thing to say you want to test FA but I'm not sure I remember a player saying they flat out will not sign with their current team. I want to see that reported elsewhere before I buy into it completely.

But if it's true and he will not sign there, we absolutely have to trade him. If it's not true, it will still be very risky to hold him and not trade him. Gorton will have to find a way to dump Staal in the offseason, which is no guarantee but may be more likely once the Staal situation in CAR is figured out.

It's a calculated risk. The failure was not having this figured out by now. There should have been a plan in place from day 1 to figure out how to keep Yandle on this team.

 

[chuckd3534]

Either way I see he is a good player and an important player for the team. So whether I think he is a "difference maker" or not I don't think matters. I know he is an important part of the team, so no disagreement there.

As for the 2nd part, yeah that is all rumor non-sense BS...who knows what Yandle wants. I don't even factor some rumored comments into my thinking...none of us know for sure.

All of that is nice, but doesn't change the simple question you need to be asking Prod...do you keep him at the DL and simply let him walk for nothing this summer. I really think that is the bottom line question you and Gorton need to be asking and answering. The rest is fluff noise I think.

Knowing that Staal has a NTC, knowing that even if we deal Staal it would be a risk on some level to know if we will resign Yandle for sure this summer, and believing the Rangers don't really want to deal Staal anyway (that is speculation on my part but I have never heard one comment or rumor or anything that they want to move Staal or G) I would deal Yandle this season and get some value back. I think we can flip him for a good forward upgrade (again speculation but players like Yandle are valuable to teams looking to make a run).

Reading between the lines on your post I kind of think you feel the same way as I do (cannot let him walk for nothing). Maybe your opinion would be keep him and let it play out this summer. Meaning see if we can deal Staal this summer to resign Yandle. If that is your take, I get that POV for sure, but I would not do that...simply too risky for me. A lot of moving parts to hope all come together. Staal waives his NTC, we find a taker for Staal, Yandle resigns. A lot of faith we can pull all that off...and the downside is he walks for nothing.

I wouldn't go that route unless I knew for 100% sure by the DL that was all in place, which I think is highly unlikely because you are basically telling Staal you are dealing him after the season, but I 100% respect someone if they feel that is the way to play.

There is no right or wrong answer...simply us giving our opinions on how we would play it with Yandle.

 

[Ranger71]

If they're serious about going for the cup, which i'm sure they are, they need to acquire a forward outside of dealing Yandle, as they need both. Use an rfa forward plus a pick/prospect to a rebuilding team looking to move a ufa. It wouldn't really be gaining by trading Yandle simply for another roster player, as you're now weakening the D.

 

[theProdigy223]

I think this is also still a little premature. Let's see where we are at the deadline before we say we have to trade him. What if we rattle of 12 straight wins and play lights out? What if Gorton is able to fleece somebody out of nowhere and get an impact forward here without having to trade Yandle? What if we get a guy like Ladd for just futures? Still saying not worth the risk, trade him?

If when the time comes we are where we are now, and that's playing uninspiring hockey while coasting along in the 2nd or 3rd spot in the met, and no true impact guy is coming, I think at the end of the day we'll have to trade him. And depending what we're able to get back it will be one of the worst asset management failures I can remember for this front office.

 

[Ranger71]

Exactly, it makes little sense moving him if you're not out of a playoff spot, which they most likely won't be in another month.

 

[NYR31]

a LOT can happen between now and end of Feb so our needs may be a lot different. We may go on a tear and will be buyers and go for it, or we may tank and blow up the ship, who knows. Also, keeping Yandle at the DL does not mean he's going to be gone for nothing in the offseason, so that is not "the question to ask". We can keep him at the DL AND keep him long term if the GM can do some maneuvering and trade other assets.

 

[NYR31]

From where we are right now, unless i see a direct quote from Yandle or his agent saying "we will not resign in NY" then Yandle is a keeper and you do what you can to keep him here long term, both because of his ability (frequent top-10 scoring D in the league before coming here) and because of what we gave up for him.

 

[chuckd3534]

I think this is also still a little premature. Let's see where we are at the deadline before we say we have to trade him. What if we rattle of 12 straight wins and play lights out? What if Gorton is able to fleece somebody out of nowhere and get an impact forward here without having to trade Yandle? What if we get a guy like Ladd for just futures? Still saying not worth the risk, trade him?

If when the time comes we are where we are now, and that's playing uninspiring hockey while coasting along in the 2nd or 3rd spot in the met, and no true impact guy is coming, I think at the end of the day we'll have to trade him. And depending what we're able to get back it will be one of the worst asset management failures I can remember for this front office.

I agree with this 100000000% Prod. Exactly the way I feel also.