Politics Duds announcement run for Governor

[SharpesTriumph]

If the olympics, all pro sports, etc have strict rules that require birth gender for all female athletes, why do some states schools, colleges, and girls youth sports allow something different?

Its an issue that many liberals find "complex" and hard to find a solution on. But its black and white to conservatives, Republicans, Independents, and even many Democrats. That's why its so easy to rally support. Its a simple issue for most voters that the vast majority of the country strongly believes one way on.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Because it segregated trans people and further stigmatizes. Because there won't be anything like the same number of teams and sports. Because it is separate and very unequal. Because contrary to myth trans people and teams with trans members have not unfairly dominated sports. Because tall strong cis women and girls are already being subjected to demeaning demands they prove they are "real".

This is flat false as numerous trans athletes in woman's sports have won high school and college competitions.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

If the olympics, all pro sports, etc have strict rules that require birth gender for all female athletes, why do some states schools, colleges, and girls youth sports allow something different?

Its an issue that many liberals find "complex" and hard to find a solution on. But its black and white to conservatives, Republicans, Independents, and even many Democrats. That's why its so easy to rally support. Its a simple issue for most voters that the vast majority of the country strongly believes one way on.

It is complex because they actually care about the well being of others and don't want a vulnerable population that already has high suicide rates ostracized even more. Doesn't mean there shouldn't be a conversation and trying to find a solution for all. However, once again, if you havent ready the article I linked above. This has been going on since 2009 and hasn't been a big issue until the right decided to make it their boogeyman.

Good news is an even more important issue being human rights and is causing many Republicans, democrats and independents to rally together to turn districts that rarely vote republican to vote Democrat.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

This is flat false as numerous trans athletes in woman's sports have won high school and college competitions.

"Numerous" as in 10 or less athletes in the NCAA that identify as Trans out of 500,000.

Surely if they are are dominating all the sports they would be household names right?

Brother, it is such a low population.

I've tried looking for how many trans athletes there are in high school sports and have not been able to find it. But in Portland there was one and they received so much harassment over it they are moving to Canada.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

"Numerous" as in 10 or less athletes in the NCAA that identify as Trans out of 500,000.

Surely if they are are dominating all the sports they would be household names right?

I would recognize a couple of the names of some trans athletes that won as its been very controversial. So yeah thats a lot higher than the rate of 10/500,000 - you basically proved my point that some trans athletes have a very large unfair advantage.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

It is complex because they actually care about the well being of others and don't want a vulnerable population that already has high suicide rates ostracized even more. Doesn't mean there shouldn't be a conversation and trying to find a solution for all. However, once again, if you havent ready the article I linked above. This has been going on since 2009 and hasn't been a big issue until the right decided to make it their boogeyman.

Good news is an even more important issue being human rights and is causing many Republicans, democrats and independents to rally together to turn districts that rarely vote republican to vote Democrat.

I did skim over your article, sure its a bunch of cherypicked facts from a LGBTQ advocacy group. I'm sure a keep men out of womens sports group would equally be able to provide a compelling list of bullet point "facts".

Now protecting a vulnerable trans population I'm fine with and fully support ideas that can help that group.

Even if some areas flip from republican to democrat - its all going to flip back at some point. Then back the other way, etc.

 

[barfo]

I would recognize a couple of the names of some trans athletes that won as its been very controversial. So yeah thats a lot higher than the rate of 10/500,000 - you basically proved my point that some trans athletes have a very large unfair advantage.

Some non-trans athletes have a very large unfair advantage also. Shall we eliminate anyone who isn't average in athletic ability?

barfo

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I would recognize a couple of the names of some trans athletes that won as its been very controversial. So yeah thats a lot higher than the rate of 10/500,000 - you basically proved my point that some trans athletes have a very large unfair advantage.

Lol yes, people know trans athletes as household names. Because they win everything they compete in. You are right!

 

[julius]

"Numerous" as in 10 or less athletes in the NCAA that identify as Trans out of 500,000.

Surely if they are are dominating all the sports they would be household names right?

Brother, it is such a low population.

I've tried looking for how many trans athletes there are in high school sports and have not been able to find it. But in Portland there was one and they received so much harassment over it they are moving to Canada.

As I said earlier (and thank you for continuing to be a logical voice here and I'm not arguing against what you said just using your post as a jumping off point), the #'s and %'s are so small, I don't know how anyone can honestly say this is a legit issue for them. At least at the scale of making it a national issue or a voting issue for them.

While it's understandable for people to not understand trans, or hell, understandable to be unsure of how to respond when someone finds out there are trans people out there, if it's such an issue for people, they are the ones making it into one.

I am willing to bet the house I don't own that the # of people who are against trans athletes is 100X that of the # of trans athletes.

So for every 500,000 people that would be mean there are 1000 people with their heads up their asses...Or not even 0.002%


Which is ironically, the # I incorrectly stated earlier...trans athletes make up .000002%. Or 2 people per one hundred thousand people.

Where is the outrage over the % of NCAA athletes (men, usually) who are sexual predators? I'm willing to bet you @THE HCP 's left kidney the # and % of NCAA athletes who are sexual predators is significantly larger than the # and % of NCAA athletes that are trans.

What about the # and % of NCAA athletes that have been charged with a crime (hint: it's about 7%...also hint: 7% is a lot larger than 0.000002%).

This is simply finding a target (Trans/trans athletes) who are perceived to be an easy target, and reality be damned!

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

As I said earlier (and thank you for continuing to be a logical voice here and I'm not arguing against what you said just using your post as a jumping off point), the #'s and %'s are so small, I don't know how anyone can honestly say this is a legit issue for them. At least at the scale of making it a national issue or a voting issue for them.

While it's understandable for people to not understand trans, or hell, understandable to be unsure of how to respond when someone finds out there are trans people out there, if it's such an issue for people, they are the ones making it into one.

I am willing to bet the house I don't own that the # of people who are against trans athletes is 100X that of the # of trans athletes.

So for every 500,000 people that would be mean there are 1000 people with their heads up their asses...Or not even 0.002%


Which is ironically, the # I incorrectly stated earlier...trans athletes make up .000002%. Or 2 people per one hundred thousand people.

Where is the outrage over the % of NCAA athletes (men, usually) who are sexual predators? I'm willing to bet you @THE HCP 's left kidney the # and % of NCAA athletes who are sexual predators is significantly larger than the # and % of NCAA athletes that are trans.

What about the # and % of NCAA athletes that have been charged with a crime (hint: it's about 7%...also hint: 7% is a lot larger than 0.000002%).

This is simply finding a target (Trans/trans athletes) who are perceived to be an easy target, and reality be damned!

The way some people make it sound, we would get to see these athletes dunking on cisgender women, throwing cisgender women on the mat in wrestling, spiking balls in cisgender womens faces in volleyball etc.

Instead, i've seen less than a handful of track and swimming athletes win some competitions.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

As I said earlier (and thank you for continuing to be a logical voice here and I'm not arguing against what you said just using your post as a jumping off point), the #'s and %'s are so small, I don't know how anyone can honestly say this is a legit issue for them. At least at the scale of making it a national issue or a voting issue for them.

While it's understandable for people to not understand trans, or hell, understandable to be unsure of how to respond when someone finds out there are trans people out there, if it's such an issue for people, they are the ones making it into one.

I am willing to bet the house I don't own that the # of people who are against trans athletes is 100X that of the # of trans athletes.

So for every 500,000 people that would be mean there are 1000 people with their heads up their asses...Or not even 0.002%


Which is ironically, the # I incorrectly stated earlier...trans athletes make up .000002%. Or 2 people per one hundred thousand people.

Where is the outrage over the % of NCAA athletes (men, usually) who are sexual predators? I'm willing to bet you @THE HCP 's left kidney the # and % of NCAA athletes who are sexual predators is significantly larger than the # and % of NCAA athletes that are trans.

What about the # and % of NCAA athletes that have been charged with a crime (hint: it's about 7%...also hint: 7% is a lot larger than 0.000002%).

This is simply finding a target (Trans/trans athletes) who are perceived to be an easy target, and reality be damned!

All politicians say they want to help kids, or help the environment, or create jobs, etc. There's differences in belief of the best policy implementations but theres not a difference in believe of what should be done for those groups.

Theres certainly far more sexual predators hurting people than trans causing harm to people. Nobody is saying the damage both groups do is similar, or at least I can't imagine anybody logical believing such.

Nobody supports sexual predators though, there might be large disagreements of how to best set policies to protect against that but nobody is saying to make rape legal or allow more sexual predators.

The trans in womens sports issue is politically relevant because you have some groups that are arguing for one specific policy and other groups that don't want that specific policy. That's why it is politically relevant.

 

[crandc]

This is flat false as numerous trans athletes in woman's sports have won high school and college competitions.

I didn't say they didn't win. I said unfair advantage. San Jose State volleyball team was mediocre with a teams woman and for two years no one cared. Then a teammate decided to go to right wing media about her own team because she's a Christian. All of a sudden this .500 volleyball team in a small conference was the country's biggest danger. Trump made m up lie opposing player almost killed by trans woman. She gets death threats.
The only one hurt was the trans athlete.

 

[crandc]

As soon as someone says "no men in women's sports" they show their true views,vehicle is erasing transgender people by, for example, calling transgender women " men".

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I didn't say they didn't win. I said unfair advantage. San Jose State volleyball team was mediocre with a teams woman and for two years no one cared. Then a teammate decided to go to right wing media about her own team because she's a Christian. All of a sudden this .500 volleyball team in a small conference was the country's biggest danger. Trump made m up lie opposing player almost killed by trans woman. She gets death threats.
The only one hurt was the trans athlete.

Interesting opinion on the story.

Many others have a vastly different opinion.

 

[crandc]

I'm sure others have different opinion. The ones who never watch women's sports but pretend to care. The ones looking to demonize trans people. The ones looking for a hot button political issue.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I am surprised to read its actually legal for trans athlete to compete at the pro level in womens sports in Texas, as a trans athlete fraudulently won worlds strongest womans competition a few months ago;

Transgender athlete 'was very dishonest', says world's strongest woman Andrea Thompson

A British athlete crowned world's strongest woman says she was "robbed" of her winning moment after it emerged the original champion was a transgender woman who was ineligible to compete.

www.bbc.com

"It appears that an athlete who is biologically male and who now identifies as female competed in the Women's Open category... officials were unaware of this fact ahead of the competition."

In 2023, Texas introduced a law prohibiting "biological men from competing against female athletes", although this only applies to college and university sport in the state."

"A World Athletics official has claimed that between 50 and 60 athletes who went through male puberty have been finalists in the female category in global and continental track and field championships since 2000."

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is flat false as numerous trans athletes in woman's sports have won high school and college competitions.

Anne Andres has also dominated Canadian women's powerlifting.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Anne Andres has also dominated Canadian women's powerlifting.

To voters that support it seems like black and white common sense that someone born a man shouldn't be able to compete in women's athletics.

Its kind of amazing to me how people also project onto others that they are a bigot or don't support women too on either end of the policy arguments. As though anyone posting here has an idea how many hours me or others directly supports youth, girls, and woman activities.

Yeah I might never know what its like to be a woman or trans. But none of the woman in the world will ever know what its like for me to be a father of girls and try to protect/care for them.

Not to say I'm perfect or we can't tweak how we support trans or something I could be more eloquent on. I'm sure there's areas I could improve. I actually do like that I can post here anonymously about the subject because its not really a topic that can be discussed in public without some group being greatly offended.

But back to my original posts - this is a black and white issue to majority of voters and poling show it was a factor in Trump getting elected. It will continue to be an issue that helps Republicans and hurts many Democrats for many years to come.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Some non-trans athletes have a very large unfair advantage also. Shall we eliminate anyone who isn't average in athletic ability?

barfo

You are correct that this is done. There are weight classes, age classes, amateur vs pro class, school grade classes, performance enhancing drugs vs natural class, etc. Yes individuals in competitive sports that are part of a group with a significant biological advantage are often grouped to compete against others. Biological sex at birth is among these recognized differentiations.

 

[THE HCP]

Might be a non issue to you. But it's a major issue to many.

It's one that the general public clearly sides with Republican position on. Even Democrat voters too. It's rare to have an issue like that which a party can hammer on in both primaries and general election.

Having my daughter playing sports in college, it was something I was concerned about…..but never to a point where it would change my vote. As if these politicians can have an effect/affect on that situation.

 

[barfo]

You are correct that this is done. There are weight classes, age classes, amateur vs pro class, school grade classes, performance enhancing drugs vs natural class, etc. Yes individuals in competitive sports that are part of a group with a significant biological advantage are often grouped to compete against others. Biological sex at birth is among these recognized differentiations.

That's nice in theory, but you know it doesn't work that way in practice. In reality, even within whatever classes actually exist, those with the best genetics have an "unfair" advantage and a much higher winning percentage.

Yes, it's good that Usain Bolt didn't have to compete against 10,000 fat 12 year-olds in the olympics. That would take awhile.
But if you want to tell me that his success had nothing to do with genetic differences between him and the others in the race, go ahead.

barfo

 

[THE HCP]

Yep.

It's the textbook definition of a non issue/boogeyman.

For those who aren't good at math, that's .002%

That means out of every 1000 people there would be 2 people.
Anyone who acts like this is a real issue is lying to themselves about what they really want, or is just willfully ignorant of reality.

I’ve watched my daughter playing sports in scrimmages with men involved. I don’t have to tell you this, but there is quite a difference in an 18 year old female D1 athlete and a 22-24 year old male D1 athlete. It is magnified when shit gets real out on the pitch.

Club level or recreation that’s on the females to be a part of, but in NCAA competition I would feel much more comfortable not having my kid going for a 50/50 loose ball situation with a grown man. I’ve had my daughter get thrown down and had her collarbone shattered TWICE by somebody her OWN size, and that was tough enough to deal with.

If it’s swimming/gold or any other sport like that, more power to everybody…… team sports like soccer, I just feel a bit different.

 

[julius]

All politicians say they want to help kids, or help the environment, or create jobs, etc. There's differences in belief of the best policy implementations but theres not a difference in believe
Theres certainly far more sexual predators hurting people than trans causing harm to people. Nobody is saying the damage both groups do is similar, or at least I can't imagine anybody logical believing such.

Nobody supports sexual predators though, there might be large disagreements of how to best set policies to protect against that but nobody is saying to make rape legal or allow more sexual predators.

The trans in womens sports issue is politically relevant because you have some groups that are arguing for one specific policy and other groups that don't want that specific policy. That's why it is politically r

I’ve watched my daughter playing sports in scrimmages with men involved. I don’t have to tell you this, but there is quite a difference in an 18 year old female D1 athlete and a 22-24 year old male D1 athlete. It is magnified when shit gets real out on the pitch.

Club level or recreation that’s on the females to be a part of, but in NCAA competition I would feel much more comfortable not having my kid going for a 50/50 loose ball situation with a grown man. I’ve had my daughter get thrown down and had her collarbone shattered TWICE by somebody her OWN size, and that was tough enough to deal with.

If it’s swimming/gold or any other sport like that, more power to everybody…… team sports like soccer, I just feel a bit different.

.000002%

Plus, I would bet that the trans athletes aren't like Diego Chara sized men who just want to compete against women who are tiny in comparison

 

[THE HCP]

Plus, I would bet that the trans athletes aren't like Diego Chara sized men who just want to compete against women who are tiny in comparison

There is a MASSIVE difference in physicality. My daughter is a D1 athlete who has, no joke competed against players in college who are now on the US National team and are professionals all over the world and handled herself just fine. During Christmas break she was scrimmaging against pretty much the best HS boys in the state…..these dudes were imposing. People don’t realize that. just like those HS hoopers that were dunking all over those WNBA players in scrimmages…..it’s a natural fact and you know this. Individual sports where there is no contact and chance of injury….no issues with it. Sports where they are out there banging on each other…..Just don’t like it and simply because I don’t want my child hurt.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

.000002%

Plus, I would bet that the trans athletes aren't like Diego Chara sized men who just want to compete against women who are tiny in cocomparison

The three sports i've seen just by searching recently included powerlifting, track and field and swimming.

The boogeyman would like you to believe that cis women are getting abused on the daily because of this.

This feels an awful lot like when people would complain about how they might miss out on a college admission because they aren't a person of color.

Whats more helpful is being a part of a discussion for a solution where one shares their concerns instead of writing off an entire population and excluding them.

 

[Phatguysrule]

.000002%

Plus, I would bet that the trans athletes aren't like Diego Chara sized men who just want to compete against women who are tiny in comparison

See Canadian women's powerlifting. Nobody's getting hurt. But it's completely destroyed any semblance of competition in the sport.

It's become a joke. A mockery.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I think we're forgetting about what's truly important here. Look at the increasing obesity rates in this country, look at the political and social polarizations. Sports are so much more than who is the best, and we've forgotten that.

Sports benefit kids physically by improving fitness, strength, and long-term health; mentally by boosting confidence, reducing stress, and enhancing cognitive skills; and socially by teaching teamwork, communication, and leadership, leading to better academic performance and lifelong healthy habits. Key advantages include lower anxiety, better focus, discipline, and social skills, while also promoting a healthy weight and heart.
Physical Health Benefits

• Stronger Body: Builds strong bones, muscles, heart, and lungs, improving cardiovascular health.
• • Healthy Weight: Helps control body weight and reduce body fat.
  • Disease Prevention: Lowers the risk of chronic diseases like diabetes, heart disease, and stroke.
  • Motor Skills: Develops coordination, balance, and functional movement skills.

Mental & Emotional Benefits

• • Improved Mood: Reduces rates of depression, anxiety, and stress.
  • Higher Self-Esteem: Builds confidence and a positive self-image through achievement and belonging.
  • Resilience: Teaches kids to handle disappointment, manage pressure, and learn from losing.
  • Better Sleep: Promotes better sleep patterns.

Social & Life Skills Benefits

• • Teamwork: Fosters cooperation, communication, and working towards a common goal.
  • Leadership: Develops leadership qualities and responsibility.
  • Discipline & Work Ethic: Teaches commitment, discipline, and perseverance.
  • Socialization: Creates opportunities to build friendships and peer relationships.

Academic Benefits

• • Better Grades: Associated with improved concentration, attention, and academic performance.
  • Cognitive Function: Enhances problem-solving skills and overall brain health.
  • Structure: The routine of sports encourages good study habits.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Some non-trans athletes have a very large unfair advantage also. Shall we eliminate anyone who isn't average in athletic ability?

barfo

No, those with very large unfair advantages should be competing in the top division.

It works incredibly well.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I think we're forgetting about what's truly important here. Look at the increasing obesity rates in this country, look at the political and social polarizations. Sports are so much more than who is the best, and we've forgotten that.

Sports benefit kids physically by improving fitness, strength, and long-term health; mentally by boosting confidence, reducing stress, and enhancing cognitive skills; and socially by teaching teamwork, communication, and leadership, leading to better academic performance and lifelong healthy habits. Key advantages include lower anxiety, better focus, discipline, and social skills, while also promoting a healthy weight and heart.
Physical Health Benefits

• Stronger Body: Builds strong bones, muscles, heart, and lungs, improving cardiovascular health.
• • Healthy Weight: Helps control body weight and reduce body fat.
  • Disease Prevention: Lowers the risk of chronic diseases like diabetes, heart disease, and stroke.
  • Motor Skills: Develops coordination, balance, and functional movement skills.

Mental & Emotional Benefits

• • Improved Mood: Reduces rates of depression, anxiety, and stress.
  • Higher Self-Esteem: Builds confidence and a positive self-image through achievement and belonging.
  • Resilience: Teaches kids to handle disappointment, manage pressure, and learn from losing.
  • Better Sleep: Promotes better sleep patterns.

Social & Life Skills Benefits

• • Teamwork: Fosters cooperation, communication, and working towards a common goal.
  • Leadership: Develops leadership qualities and responsibility.
  • Discipline & Work Ethic: Teaches commitment, discipline, and perseverance.
  • Socialization: Creates opportunities to build friendships and peer relationships.

Academic Benefits

• • Better Grades: Associated with improved concentration, attention, and academic performance.
  • Cognitive Function: Enhances problem-solving skills and overall brain health.
  • Structure: The routine of sports encourages good study habits.

I don't think anybody in here has suggested any kids should be prevented from playing sports.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I think we're forgetting about what's truly important here. Look at the increasing obesity rates in this country, look at the political and social polarizations. Sports are so much more than who is the best, and we've forgotten that.

Sports benefit kids physically by improving fitness, strength, and long-term health; mentally by boosting confidence, reducing stress, and enhancing cognitive skills; and socially by teaching teamwork, communication, and leadership, leading to better academic performance and lifelong healthy habits. Key advantages include lower anxiety, better focus, discipline, and social skills, while also promoting a healthy weight and heart.
Physical Health Benefits

• Stronger Body: Builds strong bones, muscles, heart, and lungs, improving cardiovascular health.
• • Healthy Weight: Helps control body weight and reduce body fat.
  • Disease Prevention: Lowers the risk of chronic diseases like diabetes, heart disease, and stroke.
  • Motor Skills: Develops coordination, balance, and functional movement skills.

Mental & Emotional Benefits

• • Improved Mood: Reduces rates of depression, anxiety, and stress.
  • Higher Self-Esteem: Builds confidence and a positive self-image through achievement and belonging.
  • Resilience: Teaches kids to handle disappointment, manage pressure, and learn from losing.
  • Better Sleep: Promotes better sleep patterns.

Social & Life Skills Benefits

• • Teamwork: Fosters cooperation, communication, and working towards a common goal.
  • Leadership: Develops leadership qualities and responsibility.
  • Discipline & Work Ethic: Teaches commitment, discipline, and perseverance.
  • Socialization: Creates opportunities to build friendships and peer relationships.

Academic Benefits

• • Better Grades: Associated with improved concentration, attention, and academic performance.
  • Cognitive Function: Enhances problem-solving skills and overall brain health.
  • Structure: The routine of sports encourages good study habits.

On the grade school and high school level:

Now, if we want to say that a trans person in sports like swimming or track should not have their result count for individual results but can for the team, I think that's a fair compromise.

In sports like basketball, soccer and volleyball, they're on a minutes restriction. Maybe no more than 50%? 40%?

The fear is trans athletes can give teams an unfair advantage. Let's find ways to remove that or make it less of a factor but allow them to still participate, because that is what is important and what we've lost focus on for all kids.

In high school, my best friend and I were the two tallest players on our team, and we're 6'4. Hood River had twins that were 6'9. LaSalle's point guard was my height and the rest of the team taller than that. They were the defending state champions and hadn't lost on their house court in years. But my senior year we beat them! We didn't go to state, didn't win many games, but we beat those bastards!


College sports:

Let's see what happens on the high school level and if we can use some of that.

I'm willing to bet most of us who went to college played on intermural sports teams. Some of my favorite sports memories were playing on the co-ed intermural football teams at UofO. I met my college girlfriend when I threw her in the mud rushing the QB. Should we ban trans people from that level of sports too?

In sports, you're always going to run into situations or games where you think the other team has an unfair advantage.

Luka ending up on the Lakers and the Mavs being secretly given the first pick in the draft for that. The frozen draft envelope conspiracy.

Trans kids, gay kids, all kids, deserve to be allowed to particiapte in sports because it gives them so many more benefits than just winning.