Ed Davis has been our best big so far

[mook]

He's been our best defensive big and our most consistent big in the first three games, and the eyeball test says it isn't close. But so do the stats--30% TRB is just amazing. His defense has been great. He's finishing at a .721 TS. He takes 4 shots in his 16 mpg, and he gets you 3 buckets and 3 free throw attempts. Per 36 he's at 16pts/19rebs.

And it's his identity. He does only the things he does on offense--set screens, finish in the paint, offensive rebound. His relentless, uncreative grinding is the palette that our creative offense paints over.

Obviously, despite Nurk's slow start he's the vastly superior player, and he'll get it together. But man, Ed Davis has been a beast out there. I like him coming off the bench behind Nurkic, but I want to see him get up to 25mpg or so with some more minutes backing up PF. His "Rich man's Noah Vonleh" act works just as fine at PF besides Nurkic as it does playing behind him.

 

[theprunetang]

This is exactly why Vonleh will be traded at the deadline this year. Healthy Ed does everything better and can be resigned for less money. Plus, the guy wants to be here. The Vonleh at this point is more experienced and has more nuance to his game than our rookies, but drafting them plus the new Nurk contact was the death knell for the guy. A healthy Ed is a great team player.

 

[B-Roy]

Really don't understand why we don't go big sometimes with the wealth of bigs that we have.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

He has been great. In fact, there have been more pleasant surprises so far than disappointments (although Nurkic has certainly been worrying). Where does Vonleh fit in all this? If we could package Meyers and Vonleh for anything decent it would avoid worrying logjams down the line.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Really don't understand why we don't go big sometimes with the wealth of bigs that we have.

Give it time - wait till we play New Orleans.

 

[julius]

Really don't understand why we don't go big sometimes with the wealth of bigs that we have.

Probably because of the bigs the team has, 4 of them are either unproven (Noah, Caleb and Zach) or hot garbage (Meyers). So going big with Nurk and Ed doesn't really work.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Ed has looked great except for the few shots he took out outside his range. (Which is about 5 feet) He could play next to Nurk on offense though if Nurk is out on the high post. Might be worth a try.

 

[Natebishop3]

It seems to me that Nurk is adjusting to his lighter frame. He was bullying people last season, and he's having a tough time doing that now. I think it will just take a bit of time for him to adapt.

 

[SportsAndWhine]

It seems to me that Nurk is adjusting to his lighter frame. He was bullying people last season, and he's having a tough time doing that now. I think it will just take a bit of time for him to adapt.

He has been getting better; after the first game he was a 5.6 PER but now he’s 9.9... that sounds iffy still but it means he has been about a 13 PER since that first game... slowly getting there. By January he’ll be back. Which will be the perfect time to have our third on board.

 

[Natebishop3]

He has been getting better; after the first game he was a 5.6 PER but now he’s 9.9... that sounds iffy still but it means he has been about a 13 PER since that first game... slowly getting there. By January he’ll be back. Which will be the perfect time to have our third on board.

I'm just not that worried yet..... and if he doesn't play awesome, maybe we get a discount.

 

[andalusian]

I am not worried about Nurk yet. He was actually good once he slowed down in the 2nd half of the Bucks game. He just might have an early season/new body jitters - and he still was a rock on defense.

 

[dviss1]

Nurk is just moving too fast. He is adjusting to his "lighter" frame (270 is still fucking huge). He just needs to gather himself and go up strong and more deliberate instead of quick shooting.

His jumper is looking nice though.

 

[Natebishop3]

Davis is a free agent this summer. He's playing like he wants a new deal. He says he wants to stay here... and I like him... but I have no clue what the guy is worth. If we could get O'Quinn, I'd look to move him.

 

[Denny Crane]

Davis is a free agent this summer. He's playing like he wants a new deal. He says he wants to stay here... and I like him... but I have no clue what the guy is worth. If we could get O'Quinn, I'd look to move him.

I don't think the demand is going to be that high for him... Not enough to drive his price way up. He's got little mid range game and no real outside game. The antithesis of the modern NBA big.

That said, he's been a bargain for us at his current contract, and if we're going to pay the LT anyway after signing Nurk, giving Ed a nice bump to stay with the team is going to be better than replacing him with the taxpayer MLE.

 

[KingSpeed]

I don't get how he always gets those rebounds. He's amazing. He's always there. Vonleh is good too but he's been benched in favor of Collins and Meyers.

 

[dviss1]

Davis is a free agent this summer. He's playing like he wants a new deal. He says he wants to stay here... and I like him... but I have no clue what the guy is worth. If we could get O'Quinn, I'd look to move him.

It'd be something to consider. Though Davis is a far better offensive rebounder and I just love him for that. There are reasons to consider targeting O'quinn.

 

[Boob-No-More]

It'd be something to consider. Though Davis is a far better offensive rebounder and I just love him for that. There are reasons to consider targeting O'quinn.

View attachment 17533

You left our KOQ's biggest advantage - rim protection. He blocks over twice as many shots per minute as Ed Davis. His current BLK% of 5.8 isn't quite as elite as his 2016-17 BLK% of 6.9, but it's still top 5 in the league.

He doesn't play enough minutes to qualify for the league lead in that category, but his BLK% of 6.9 last season would have led the entire league (Gobert led the league at BLK% = 6.4), if he'd qualified. Last season, in spite of only playing 15.5 MPG, he blocked 104 shots. That was more blocked shots, in far fewer minutes, than Dwight Howard or Marc Gasol. It was also only 2 fewer blocks than DPOY Draymond Green, is spite of playing less than half the minutes Green played.

I've been a vocal proponent of landing O'Quinn for well over a year. In addition to elite rim protection, he's also a surprisingly good passer (his AST% of 18.2 would be second best on our team, trailing only Dame) and he has a solid jump shot out to about 16 feet (shooting .520 from 10 - 16 feet).

With 2017-18 Ed Davis returning to form and Zach Collins getting PT, I see less urgency in landing O'Quinn. In the past, I think he would have fit well both backing up Nurk, or playing next to him. He still would, but the need has been lessened by Ed's resurgence and Collins' play (at least on the defensive end).

Although a straight up Davis for O'Quinn swap works, it only saves us about $2.3 million in salary and we need a little more than $2.9 million to get under the tax threshold. If there was some way to land O'Quinn and get under the tax threshold, I'd do it. Otherwise, a Davis for Q'Quinn swap would be an exercise in rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. O'Quinn is better, but not better enough to make a huge difference.

BNM

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Although a straight up Davis for O'Quinn swap works, it only saves us about $2.3 million in salary and we need a little more than $2.9 million to get under the tax threshold. If there was some way to land O'Quinn and get under the tax threshold, I'd do it. Otherwise, a Davis for Q'Quinn swap would be an exercise in rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. O'Quinn is better, but not better enough to make a huge difference.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

View attachment 17540

I'd do that in a heartbeat, but I'm not sure the Knicks would. They probably would have last summer, but that was before Mo Harkless and the Season of Pout.

Lee is starting for them, plays 32+ MPG, averages 13.1 ppg and shoots .431 from 3-point range. Even more importantly, they have a winning record and are on track to make the playoffs. I doubt if they want to fuck that up by taking a chance on No Show Mo.

Funny, before the season started, most would have said Lee is overpaid and Harkless is a bargain. Now, the opposite is true. We'd actually get the two best players in the deal and Lee fills the need for a 3rd guard with size that can shoot and defend.

Plus, it gets us under the tax threshold. We'd probably have to throw in a lottery protected 1st, or maybe a couple future 2nd round picks. I'd still do it.

BNM

 

[KingSpeed]

Mo Harkless, Mo Problems

 

[dviss1]

I'd do that in a heartbeat, but I'm not sure the Knicks would. They probably would have last summer, but that was before Mo Harkless and the Season of Pout.

Lee is starting for them, plays 32+ MPG, averages 13.1 ppg and shoots .431 from 3-point range. Even more importantly, they have a winning record and are on track to make the playoffs. I doubt if they want to fuck that up by taking a chance on No Show Mo.

Funny, before the season started, most would have said Lee is overpaid and Harkless is a bargain. Now, the opposite is true. We'd actually get the two best players in the deal and Lee fills the need for a 3rd guard with size that can shoot and defend.

Plus, it gets us under the tax threshold. We'd probably have to throw in a lottery protected 1st, or maybe a couple future 2nd round picks. I'd still do it.

BNM

I liked your post even though I think there's a debate to be had as to who's better between Davis/O'quinn.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'd do that in a heartbeat, but I'm not sure the Knicks would. They probably would have last summer, but that was before Mo Harkless and the Season of Pout.

Lee is starting for them, plays 32+ MPG, averages 13.1 ppg and shoots .431 from 3-point range. Even more importantly, they have a winning record and are on track to make the playoffs. I doubt if they want to fuck that up by taking a chance on No Show Mo.

Funny, before the season started, most would have said Lee is overpaid and Harkless is a bargain. Now, the opposite is true. We'd actually get the two best players in the deal and Lee fills the need for a 3rd guard with size that can shoot and defend.

Plus, it gets us under the tax threshold. We'd probably have to throw in a lottery protected 1st, or maybe a couple future 2nd round picks. I'd still do it.

BNM

Agreed on all counts. If this were proposed, one would have to hope that the inclusion of Vonleh, the expiring status of Davis' deal, and Harkless' youth would offset the obvious gulf in value between Moe and Lee.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I liked your post even though I think there's a debate to be had as to who's better between Davis/O'quinn.

Not in my mind. I like this version of Ed (last year's version sucked), but O'Quinn is twice the shot blocker, 6x the passer, is a threat to score beyond 3' from the basket and is a 78% FT shooter. The ONLY thing Ed does better is offensive rebounding, and it's not like O'Quinn sucks on the offensive glass. Historically, the difference isn't that great, but Ed's having a career year on the offensive glass. O'Quinn does everything else better.

He has the size/bulk to play backup center, but also has the midrange game and passing ability to play next to Nurk. Because of his shooting ability, he can draw his man away from the basket, leaving Nurk to dive to the basket unimpeded on the pick and roll. Ed can't play next to Nurk. He just gets in the way.

If we can get Lee and O'Quinn from NYK AND get under the tax threshold, I think that's a total win for Olshey. We improve our bench tremendously. Even if you think Davis vs. O'Quinn is a draw, Lee is WAY better than any wing we have coming off our bench

Putting off the repeater tax for another year is a big thing. Of course when your'e paying $4+ dollars in tax for every $1 over the threshold, the financial impact is significant, even for someone as rich as Paul Allen, but being a repeat offender also greatly hampers the ability to make roster moves. If you're a repeat offender, you'd better be a contender, because you've basically tied your own hands behind your back when it comes to ways of improving your roster. CLE and GSW can get away with it because they are going to the finals every year. a .500 team that's a repeat tax offender is basically fucked.

BNM