Politics Eight year old take a knee.

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Citizen is fine. Servant or subservient, not so much.

I whole heartedly agree. The traditions and etiquette routinely participated in by citizens does not indicate subservience, no should it be construed to represent it. When we all agree that the role of government is the protection of the rights of the Citizens, then one should be comfortable with showing the solidarity in support of the system by participating in the symbolic ceremonies.
Insisting on exercising one of the rights protected only by the system, instead of participating as a citizen in a traditional ceremony of the system, is a rather convoluted plan.
 
I whole heartedly agree. The traditions and etiquette routinely participated in by citizens does not indicate subservience, no should it be construed to represent it. When we all agree that the role of government is the protection of the rights of the Citizens, then one should be comfortable with showing the solidarity in support of the system by participating in the symbolic ceremonies.
Insisting on exercising one of the rights protected only by the system, instead of participating as a citizen in a traditional ceremony of the system, is a rather convoluted plan.

I'll show solidarity to my family, friends, and neighbors. I have no interest in showing any to a government in a city thousands of miles away.

Maybe barfo does. Not me.
 
I'll show solidarity to my family, friends, and neighbors. I have no interest in showing any to a government in a city thousands of miles away.

Maybe barfo does. Not me.

Sorry to hear that Denny. And here I thought we were in lock step in support of a Constitutional government.
 
I love the 10th amendment.
Moving in that direction with the Healthcare plan in the Senate. Still has a major flaw, but moving in the right direction, to the States.

I have no interest in a big federal government or pledging allegiance to it or any leader. I reserve all the powers I can for myself and will use them as I see fit.
 
no interest in a big federal government

pledging allegiance to it or any leader

Of course, I also agree the Federal government should be no bigger than require to do what is needed to protect our right above and beyond what the States can not do as well.

No one pledges allegiance to the government and least of all, any leader. In my mind we pledge allegiance to our sytem as citizens that have constructed a Constitutional Federal/States government system.
 
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I don't want to give up damn thing either, but it does often come to me that we best hang together or the end will be very near for all. I can only hope they get Denny first and the enemy is satisfied with him, leaving me and mine to be happy.
 
If and when we are called to fight, we must go. But it's questionable that we should even have a standing armed forces at all.
 
But it's questionable that we should even have a standing armed forces at all.
I think that worked in the past, even up into the last century.

No way today, DC!

The battle would be lost an done before you could train a man to do anything useful, let alone build a ship to shoot down shit some nut will send our way. I hope to hell we are stacking the MOAB right now as the alternative to the unthinkable.
I hope to hell an Aegis Destroyer can indeed knock down a BM launched your way. I feel relatively secure here in remote Bandon, San Diego with half the Pacific fleet seem like an enticing first strike target.
 
I think that worked in the past, even up into the last century.

No way today, DC!

The battle would be lost an done before you could train a man to do anything useful, let alone build a ship to shoot down shit some nut will send our way. I hope to hell we are stacking the MOAB right now as the alternative to the unthinkable.
I hope to hell an Aegis Destroyer can indeed knock down a BM launched your way. I feel relatively secure here in remote Bandon, San Diego with half the Pacific fleet seem like an enticing first strike target.

Who's going to invade?

Mexico? Canada?

I'm not afraid.
 
If and when we are called to fight, we must go. But it's questionable that we should even have a standing armed forces at all.

I'm in favor of a smaller, highly trained, QRF military. I would probably leave the Air Force and Navy as they are, but I'd shrink the army down to really only specialized units and armor. Basic infantry are probably the easiest to train and replace.
 
I'm all for this country getting back to what it set out to be 200+ years ago; a collection of separate states with their own laws relevant to that state, under a common government whose sole responsibilities are to collect taxes, provide for the common defense and to uphold the Constitution of the United States. As far as I'm concerned, individual states should be allowed to pass whatever laws they choose, create their own educational systems, build their own roads, own their own lands, etc, etc, etc, so long as they don't violate said Constitution. If you don't like those laws, move to a state that better represents your values. I'm very proud to state that I am an Oregonian first and an American second. The government of the United States does not represent my belief and value systems in any meaningful way. The government of the State of Oregon (flakey and misguided as it might be) does a far, far better job of representing what I believe in. It's time to take our country back. I'm honest enough to know the Democratic Party isn't a fit vehicle to achieve that and I'm intelligent enough to know that the Republican Party an even worse choice. The one possible silver lining in the current cloud we're living under is that this could (hopefully) be the demise a long broken two party (and partisan) system and the start of something better. Just call me Pollyanna..........
 
TRUMP: “Wouldn't you like to see one of our NFL owners, when somebody disrepects the flag, say, 'Get that son of a bitch off the field..."
 
Ha! There ain't no end the shit people conjure up. The wienie is disgusting.

Got a wonder about the repeat too.

Come to think about it, I think my first comment was something like, fuck the son of a bitch.
Ha! He ain't working.
 
Yeah America is losing it. I remember we used to stand and say the pledge of alliegence every morning at school. But, hey fuck patriotism right.
There are some things that still creep me out about America despite living here practically uninterrupted since 1989. Cheerleaders. More guns than people. And that stupid fucking pledge. How fucking insecure do you have to be to do that shit? I grew up in England, and in my youth they were still (and probably still do) making anti-German jokes because of WWII. We managed to fight pretty successfully to defend our country in two World Wars without needing to pledge allegiance. Think about that very phrase: "pledge allegiance". If you saw that in a movie you can bet it would be being done by the bad guys, right? How about make the country so good everybody just loves it without needing to "pledge allegiance." Imagine if your parents demanded you "pledge allegiance to the family"?

Jesus Christ.

Oh, and by the way, it still goes on in plenty of schools. I taught a class in a high school last year and it happened every morning over the tannoy in the middle of class. And EVERY KID stood up and did the stupid hand on heart bullshit. It was like Invasion of the Bodysnatchers.
 
Also, what the fuck has the National Anthem got to do with sports? I get it if it's TWO NATIONAL TEAMS playing each other. But the Bears versus the Lions? WTF?
 
There are some things that still creep me out about America despite living here practically uninterrupted since 1989. Cheerleaders. More guns than people. And that stupid fucking pledge. How fucking insecure do you have to be to do that shit? I grew up in England, and in my youth they were still (and probably still do) making anti-German jokes because of WWII. We managed to fight pretty successfully to defend our country in two World Wars without needing to pledge allegiance. Think about that very phrase: "pledge allegiance". If you saw that in a movie you can bet it would be being done by the bad guys, right? How about make the country so good everybody just loves it without needing to "pledge allegiance." Imagine if your parents demanded you "pledge allegiance to the family"?

Jesus Christ.

Oh, and by the way, it still goes on in plenty of schools. I taught a class in a high school last year and it happened every morning over the tannoy in the middle of class. And EVERY KID stood up and did the stupid hand on heart bullshit. It was like Invasion of the Bodysnatchers.

Don't let the door hit you in the fanny on your way out.
 
I have been trying to remember a name... Fernandez! JJ, that is what I knew him by could not remember the rest of the name, JJ Fernandez, father of Swervin Mervyn Fernandez.

JJ worked in the same group with me, in the test group. His son was a pretty fair football player, know locally in the bay area quite well, but damn near got lost in the Canadian league, doing real well there but not getting what he really wanted, play for the Oakland Raiders.
One day JJ is raising a ruckus all over the place, his son is going to get a try with the Raiders! Man, I think it was the in the season not the training camp! Maybe I am wrong.
So I met JJ at the local watering place, on our way home, we both lived up by Lake Anderson. I ask JJ if he was going to the game? Don't thinks so, no ticket and Mervyn doesn't have any yet.
Shit! This ain't right!!

So I mention it to another one of my guys, a die hard Raider. Just a soft query, isn't there anyway to get some tickets to this game?

Some time later, Viola! Not only is JJ going but, several of us.

Well anyway the Canadians are sort of laid back, don't always pay attention to the anthem if they remember to do it, so Mervyn is in that groove.
He sort of fuckin around, changing feet and stuff and JJ is mortified.
I think, if I remember right, Mervyn caught a pass and stuck for 5 or 6 years. Longer than I carried on there
JJ was ex Navy.
 
Is it or is it not bringing awareness? :dunno:

There are whole threads about it. There's discussion. It's having the right effect. It creates dialog and debate. This is how the country moves forward, by having a debate on the MERITS of the argument.

If there are people in this country unaware, I highly doubt these actions will make them aware.

Those who choose not to pay attention are in the woods and caves and likely have little influence on the issues at hand.
The ones that have an impact are fully aware and don't care or are actively prejudiced/ racist.

There is no one to make aware that wants to be aware anymore.


The key, and what Nate bishop is getting at is
Movements like this usually don't go far with out a clear cut agenda and end game.
What is the end game desired and what are the steps to get there that people must be made aware of to accomplish such agenda?
I'm sorry but to say equality or fairness doesn't cut it. It's a generalization without specifics. Its pretty obvious we need specifics because we already have an amended constitution that generally specifies equality of all.

So what is the desired end result?
Another amendment?
Signs on walls, the lynching of anyone who is racist/prejudice?


The problem I have with all this is there seems to be no detailed end game with a lined out agenda with goals that can be achieved and crossed off the list.

Until there is a more consistent message of they desired results, this will never be anything more than a mockery of our actual freedom of speech.
 
If there are people in this country unaware, I highly doubt these actions will make them aware.

Those who choose not to pay attention are in the woods and caves and likely have little influence on the issues at hand.
The ones that have an impact are fully aware and don't care or are actively prejudiced/ racist.

There is no one to make aware that wants to be aware anymore.


The key, and what Nate bishop is getting at is
Movements like this usually don't go far with out a clear cut agenda and end game.
What is the end game desired and what are the steps to get there that people must be made aware of to accomplish such agenda?
I'm sorry but to say equality or fairness doesn't cut it. It's a generalization without specifics. Its pretty obvious we need specifics because we already have an amended constitution that generally specifies equality of all.

So what is the desired end result?
Another amendment?
Signs on walls, the lynching of anyone who is racist/prejudice?


The problem I have with all this is there seems to be no detailed end game with a lined out agenda with goals that can be achieved and crossed off the list.

Until there is a more consistent message of they desired results, this will never be anything more than a mockery of our actual freedom of speech.

I'm just going to say this and y'all are going to have to take it for what it is. Whenever we protest white people always say that we shouldn't be doing it or they tell us we're not doing it the right way.

Every.

Single.

Time.
 
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I'm just going to say this and y'all are going to have to take it for what it is. Whenever we protest white people always say that we shouldn't be doing it or they tell us we're not doing it the right way.

Every.

Single.

Time.
Just trying to be helpful.
:cool2:
 
Then on the other hand, you get a bunch of white people that are helping you do the wrong thing (virtue signalers).
It ain't helping.
 
I'm just going to say this and y'all are going to have to take it for what it is. Whenever we protest white people always say that we shouldn't be doing it or they tell us we're not doing it the right way.

Every.

Single.

Time.
You're just gonna get more white guys shot. The cops will think it make things look more fair. They don't care who they kill as long as they get to go home at night.

Men, women, children and dogs. All allowed.
 
You're just gonna get more white guys shot. The cops will think it make things look more fair. They don't care who they kill as long as they get to go home at night.

Men, women, children and dogs. All allowed.

Well hell man! If the score is statistical correct, isn't that equal out come? Doesn't that make the world right?
 
Well hell man! If the score is statistical correct, isn't that equal out come? Doesn't that make the world right?
Technically fair but not very nice really.

I have a ton of questions I would ask before I even knew what I wanted done about this.
 
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