OT El Paso bristles at Trump's claim that wall made city safe

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Just read the OT section here... People are angry, are constantly being riled up, neither side respects the other for the most part. Trump and Hillary spent an entire campaign dividing people as much as possible, most people seem so entrenched in, “Im right you’re wrong”, its almost impossible to have good dialogue and discussion about anything publicly anymore. Trump definitely enjoys the division, much of the major networks do too because it gets ratings.
In politics it has always been get one leg up on the opponent, the obvious out come of that is eventually everyone gets to a height where when they look down they cant see the bottom, so they think the only direction they can go without dying is up.

Identity politics make the country easier to govern but it does make it tougher to live in too. I feel sorry for my grandkids and youngsters because they are being taught basically to pick a side or group. This kind of politics is driven by that all Americans are part of a subgroup, unfortunately many times it's a racial category. The motivation is pretty much achieving political power and driving resources to your party or group. This is tribalism. We are seeng it first hand now and its no way to run country, to divisive, No more room for respect of other views, tribalism is inherently unreasonable. Its impossible to have debates anymore, it's only victory or defeat for the side or group. Basically anymore its your gain is my loss approach, tribalism. It doesn't end well for countries that are entrenched with such behavior.

 

[barfo]

Agree completely with the first paragraph. The second one is nonsense. I looked up congressional representatives for Texas and Arizona. Texas has 36 reps about 2/3 of whom are Republicans. First guy I googled about the wall, Louie Gohmert, is fully supportive of Trump on the wall. I picked a random Republican Arizona rep, Martha McSally, and she says, "It needs to be a bottom-up approach as far as what the agents need, what the sectors need," McSally said during a discussion on border security last year. "But it certainly includes the border wall, access roads, agents patrolling the border, technology and situational awareness, so they can detect and shut down the activity."

I think you misunderstood the claim. Louie Gohmert's district is not on the border, even though it is in a border state.

barfo

 

[e_blazer]

I think you misunderstood the claim. Louie Gohmert's district is not on the border, even though it is in a border state.

barfo

Ah. I guess I didn't get the Democrat talking points so I missed the subtlety of the argument. So, there are nine House districts across 4 states that border Mexico. Eight of these seats are held by Democrats, so it isn't hard to guess which way they're voting. The lone Republican, Will Hurd of Texas, opposes a concrete/steel slat wall. Instead, he favors a "smart wall".

Specificity, in this case, lies in the architecture of what Mr. Hurd describes as a “smart wall,” a wish list of technology and upgrades that would protect more than 800 miles of the southwestern border that demarcates the southern side of his district. He would dispense with the concrete wall or steel slats that Mr. Trump has advocated in raucous rallies, in favor of more advanced measures, including “a fiber optic cable from sea to shining sea.”

“Let’s make sure we’re using the right tool in the right place,” Mr. Hurd said. “We should be thinking about all these different technologies and how they should be used, and when I describe this, nobody disagrees.”

He added, “A wall from sea to shining sea is the most expensive and least effective way to do border security.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/17/us/politics/will-hurd-border-wall-trump.html

While the claim that no representatives of districts along the border support the wall makes a nice talking point, I don't think it means much in the overall debate. Actually, that's not correct. There is no debate going on, just people entrenched in highly partisan positions. And that's my problem with the state of this whole issue.

The first issue that needs to be tackled is the very notion of do we want a secure border, do we want to let things continue with the chaos that currently exists, or do we want something in the middle. That discussion needs to include policy decisions about what we want to do with immigration laws in general, and of course the issue of what to do with the millions of undocumented people who are already here. I don't see how we can move on in the discussion of the wall until there is some resolution of these issues. It's going to take leadership and compromise, so I have little hope that the current crop of dopes in DC have any chance of getting anywhere soon on a resolution.

Securing the border, if that's the direction we want to go, should be a matter of studying what makes the most sense in given areas along the border with Mexico. It should be done with a cost benefit type of analysis of what will work the best in those varying segments of the border. That kind of study needs to be nonpartisan and it needs to include all of the various law enforcement and border security agencies.

Yeah. I'm tilting at windmills this morning. It's much easier to sit back and yell at each other and continue to use this issue as a means of convincing your base of just how truly awful the "other side" is.

 

[MarAzul]

Trump definitely enjoys the division,

all Americans are part of a subgroup, unfortunately many times it's a racial category.

I don't think he enjoys the division. I do think he is fully aware of the division. I do not believe the division is separated by racial categories although the the democrats
strive mightily to make it appear as so.

The division is really along lines that separate decision making processes, what feels right vs what is logical or which reality we wish to achieve and the difference in the knowledge base as to what is achievable. Example, going to the moon was and is achievable, going to the a livable planet orbiting the nearest star to us, is not. Nor is laying enough track to get every where people wish to go in this country by high speed rail. If it were, we would already have high speed digital lines crisscrossing the country for data. We do not, because of the physical difficulties, where using the airwaves is relatively easy. So we go with the achievable.

Democrats call this setting the goals high, even though individual liberty must be abandon, without a hesitation to consider achievable or not.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Again, you stated that democrats didn't put kids in cages. Admit you are wrong and I'll answer you.

Since you apparently can't admit you are wrong, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, I'll answer your question.

2.

Two kids died in US Custody after being dragged from Central America to the Mexican/US Border in a large caravan of unknown migrants in an unknown state of health.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I don't think he enjoys the division. I do think he is fully aware of the division. I do not believe the division is separated by racial categories although the the democrats
strive mightily to make it appear as so.

The division is really along lines that separate decision making processes, what feels right vs what is logical or which reality we wish to achieve and the difference in the knowledge base as to what is achievable. Example, going to the moon was and is achievable, going to the a livable planet orbiting the nearest star to us, is not. Nor is laying enough track to get every where people wish to go in this country by high speed rail. If it were, we would already have high speed digital lines crisscrossing the country for data. We do not, because of the physical difficulties, where using the airwaves is relatively easy. So we go with the achievable.

Democrats call this setting the goals high, even though individual liberty must be abandon, without a hesitation to consider achievable or not.

I believe Trump likes the division, if not then why does he feel the need to go on Twitter all the time just to stir it up. He spends way too much of his energy as a leader purposefully seeking out controversy. He has NEVER really sought unity. He wants to rile up his base and the opposition.

 

[barfo]

While the claim that no representatives of districts along the border support the wall makes a nice talking point, I don't think it means much in the overall debate.

I wouldn't go that far. If the debate was about employment of border-crossers, or about those seeking asylum, then I'd agree. However since the debate is about rapists coming to rob and kill Americans, it makes sense that the border regions are the most affected by all the raping and pillaging.

Securing the border, if that's the direction we want to go, should be a matter of studying what makes the most sense in given areas along the border with Mexico. It should be done with a cost benefit type of analysis of what will work the best in those varying segments of the border. That kind of study needs to be nonpartisan and it needs to include all of the various law enforcement and border security agencies.

You have my vote.

barfo

 

[The Professional Fan]

I believe Trump likes the division, if not then why does he feel the need to go on Twitter all the time just to stir it up. He spends way too much of his energy as a leader purposefully seeking out controversy. He has NEVER really sought unity. He wants to rile up his base and the opposition.

Of course he likes the division. That is his primary goal. Anyone that claims otherwise has no clue what they're talking about.

 

[barfo]

If it were, we would already have high speed digital lines crisscrossing the country for data. We do not, because of the physical difficulties, where using the airwaves is relatively easy. So we go with the achievable.

Uhm, we do have fiber optic lines crisscrossing the country for data. Lots of them. It might be true that sailboats don't have fiber connections, but that doesn't mean the rest of us don't.

barfo

 

[dviss1]

Dude......you literally changed your argument in mid argument.

You said, and I quote
"Democrats aren't putting kids in cages"

Yes, they were, so you changed your argument to separated

So? It's what I meant to say. Now you understand.

 

[MarAzul]

I believe Trump likes the division, if not then why does he feel the need to go on Twitter all the time just to stir it up. He spends way too much of his energy as a leader purposefully seeking out controversy. He has NEVER really sought unity. He wants to rile up his base and the opposition.

Twitter is about the only way he has of getting the word out to people that want to hear it. The News media sure as hell won't tell it straight.

 

[MarAzul]

Uhm, we do have fiber optic lines crisscrossing the country for data. Lots of them. It might be true that sailboats don't have fiber connections, but that doesn't mean the rest of us don't.

barfo

Yes it does. You have it in cities. Just like you have train stations.

 

[barfo]

Yes it does. You have it in cities. Just like you have train stations.

Yeah. That was my point... lots of people have access to fiber now, and more will in the next few years.
Will every rural household ever have fiber? Maybe not - it would require something like the Rural Electrification Act since it isn't profitable to do it.
And I'm not sure we city dwellers will lobby for a Rural Fiber Act, given what dicks rural people have been ever since we paid for their electricity.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

Yeah. That was my point... lots of people have access to fiber now, and more will in the next few years.
Will every rural household ever have fiber? Maybe not - it would require something like the Rural Electrification Act since it isn't profitable to do it.
And I'm not sure we city dwellers will lobby for a Rural Fiber Act, given what dicks rural people have been ever since we paid for their electricity.

barfo

Oh I have no expectation that you cite dudes would ever see the need to do shit in the other 99% of the country.
The point is, we do not need it. The communication coverage is now near to great without landlines. The over the air communication is now better in most places.

I am switching to it entirely, at about the same price, nearly 4 times faster, and it is where ever I need it. Only two places on the entire west coast last spring where I was not in contact, off Big Sur, and Cape Falcon on the North Oregon coast. I did not travel up through WA then but I will this year. I expect even the North WA coast is
communicating, I know the Indians up there have towers. We shall see. Even if I find dead places, I expect the yagi to correct the weakness.

Nope. Land lines just like rail, are history. Only a democrat would be stuck in history that they have not studied.

 

[barfo]

Oh I have no expectation that you cite dudes would ever see the need to do shit in the other 99% of the country.
The point is, we do not need it. The communication coverage is now near to great without landlines. The over the air communication is now better in most places.

Says the guy who complains here frequently about his lack of service.

I am switching to it entirely, at about the same price, nearly 4 times faster, and it is where ever I need it.

I don't think you can get anything over the air that is 4 times faster than fiber. Maybe 4 times faster than what you had before, I'd believe that.

barfo

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Twitter is about the only way he has of getting the word out to people that want to hear it. The News media sure as hell won't tell it straight.

Theres a point to that, every person ran anything has an agenda, the news isnt any different. Trump though feels a need to tweet about everything, and so much of it is clearly just to cause more division, and to push HIS agenda. I am not Blaming Trump that the divide exists, its existed for as long as history has been written down, I am blaming him for constantly running his mouth and twitter account to make the divide as wide as he can.

 

[MarAzul]

Theres a point to that, every person ran anything has an agenda, the news isnt any different. Trump though feels a need to tweet about everything, and so much of it is clearly just to cause more division, and to push HIS agenda. I am not Blaming Trump that the divide exists, its existed for as long as history has been written down, I am blaming him for constantly running his mouth and twitter account to make the divide as wide as he can.

You could be correct.
I don't mind his tweets. None have offended me. I even appreciate him being the first non Democrat President not to eat shit dished up by the liberals and Progressives.
More so in the case of the socialist. For years, they have been taking the bullshit quietly. That was offensive to me.

 

[MarAzul]

Says the guy who complains here frequently about his lack of service.

>>>What complaint? No Blazer games? Fuck it. The Blazers threw us under the bus maybe 10 years ago. I dealt with it.

QUOTE="barfo, post: 4660203, member: 20894"]Maybe 4 times faster than what you had before, I'd believe that.[/QUOTE]
>>>Nice recovery from looking slow.

 

[barfo]

Nice recovery from looking slow.

The conversation was about fiber. Not 'whatever shitty service MarAzul was stuck with because he lives in the boondocks'.

barfo

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

You could be correct.
I don't mind his tweets. None have offended me. I even appreciate him being the first non Democrat President not to eat shit dished up by the liberals and Progressives.
More so in the case of the socialist. For years, they have been taking the bullshit quietly. That was offensive to me.

Im ok with someone having staunchly different beliefs even if they conflict with my own. I see the role of a leader as someone who should be slow to speak and quick to listen. He doesnt need to “eat up” socialist logic, or become more liberal. In some ways politically I understand why people voted for him over Hillary. However he to me is the antithesis of a good leader, in almost everyway. Loud, Obnoxious, seeks conflict when there isnt any, looks out for himself above the ones he is supposed to lead, I could go on...

 

[calvin natt]

Im ok with someone having staunchly different beliefs even if they conflict with my own. I see the role of a leader as someone who should be slow to speak and quick to listen. He doesnt need to “eat up” socialist logic, or become more liberal. In some ways politically I understand why people voted for him over Hillary. However he to me is the antithesis of a good leader, in almost everyway. Loud, Obnoxious, seeks conflict when there isnt any, looks out for himself above the ones he is supposed to lead, I could go on...

He’s a pathetic leader. Zero leadership skills. Can’t confuse leadership vs fear mongoring. Which he is excellent at. Make shit up and scare dummies? He’s the bestest.

 

[MarAzul]

Im ok with someone having staunchly different beliefs even if they conflict with my own. I see the role of a leader as someone who should be slow to speak and quick to listen. He doesnt need to “eat up” socialist logic, or become more liberal. In some ways politically I understand why people voted for him over Hillary. However he to me is the antithesis of a good leader, in almost everyway. Loud, Obnoxious, seeks conflict when there isnt any, looks out for himself above the ones he is supposed to lead, I could go on...

I guess we differ. To me, he is a leader much like Ronald Reagan. People did not like him either until after he was in history. I grew very tired of hearing people bitch about him also.

 

[MarAzul]

The conversation was about fiber. Not 'whatever shitty service MarAzul was stuck with because he lives in the boondocks'.

barfo

You are confused. The discussion was about how difficult it is to run landlines of any kind all over the this nation.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I went to El Paso last year, they totally need that wall there. Juarez (huge dangerous shithole) is so close to El Paso.

El Paso itself was pretty safe. Like more upscale Mexicans and shit.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I guess we differ. To me, he is a leader much like Ronald Reagan. People did not like him either until after he was in history. I grew very tired of hearing people bitch about him also.

Well sometimes people disagree and thats ok.

 

[barfo]

You are confused. The discussion was about how difficult it is to run landlines of any kind all over the this nation.

That of course isn't true, because as you know, there are already landlines all over the nation. So that couldn't have been what we were discussing.

barfo

 

[barfo]

He’s a pathetic leader. Zero leadership skills. Can’t confuse leadership vs fear mongoring. Which he is excellent at. Make shit up and scare dummies? He’s the bestest.

He's a cult leader.

barfo

 

[MarAzul]

That of course isn't true, because as you know, there are already landlines all over the nation. So that couldn't have been what we were discussing.

barfo

Of course that is not true. High speed lines only service less than 1% of the Nation, the cities. That is why we are using the air waves now.

 

[CupWizier]

Twitter is about the only way he has of getting the word out to people that want to hear it. The News media sure as hell won't tell it straight.

And since when has trump ever told it straight? The guy has lied over 8,000 times since he has been in office. I doubt the past 10 presidents combined have come close to that number.

 

[barfo]

Of course that is not true. High speed lines only service less than 1% of the Nation, the cities. That is why we are using the air waves now.

Ok, what exactly are you talking about, anyway? You say landlines (which usually means copper phone lines) and I say that's everywhere, and you say no, you mean high speed lines, but you also say we aren't talking about fiber, so... what do you have in mind? Cable? That's certainly more than 1%.

barfo