Politics Elizabeth Warren doubles down

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I'm saying, pretty much everyone and their brother had decades of "deceit and spin" in Hillary's public and prior endeavors (worse than Warren's lying, if it came to that), that Bernie brought up in the campaign. It didn't help him much since the people who counted (superdelegates) already had made up their mind and it wouldn't matter if Hillary held up Trump's real head Kathy Griffin-style during the halftime show of the SuperBowl. Many voters were that way as well.

I'm basically saying that if a guy with a lot of popular populist principles (oxymoron or alliteration?) and backing, running against someone waaaaay more deceitful that Warren (and way more publicly known to be deceitful than Warren), was unable to overcome the inertia of the DNC, then I don't think any of Warren's challengers (in MA or in a national contest) would get much benefit. Trump might try to exploit it, but no one is going to either go "I thought she was a lying idiot hypocrite, but now that she's been vindicated I'll vote for her!" or "you know, I really liked her platform and that she stood up for what I believe in, but now that she's exposed as a fraud and liar I'll vote for the (R) candidate". So either way, burgerum nihilum.
 
I dreaded the Clinton Trump finals.....the GOP had so much dirt on the Clintons it didn't really have to dig very deep to make her look bad....Trump always looked bad....neither was a win for the country...Trump however was the worst of two evils. Need some youth movement in govt for a change and term limits
 
BrianFromWA said:
I'm saying, pretty much everyone and their brother had decades of "deceit and spin" in Hillary's public and prior endeavors (worse than Warren's lying, if it came to that), that Bernie brought up in the campaign. It didn't help him much since the people who counted (superdelegates) already had made up their mind and it wouldn't matter if Hillary held up Trump's real head Kathy Griffin-style during the halftime show of the SuperBowl. Many voters were that way as well.

I'm basically saying that if a guy with a lot of popular populist principles (oxymoron or alliteration?) and backing, running against someone waaaaay more deceitful that Warren (and way more publicly known to be deceitful than Warren), was unable to overcome the inertia of the DNC, then I don't think any of Warren's challengers (in MA or in a national contest) would get much benefit. Trump might try to exploit it, but no one is going to either go "I thought she was a lying idiot hypocrite, but now that she's been vindicated I'll vote for her!" or "you know, I really liked her platform and that she stood up for what I believe in, but now that she's exposed as a fraud and liar I'll vote for the (R) candidate". So either way, burgerum nihilum.
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Bernie fared far better than he should have. If the Democrats had run John Kerry against her, the outcome would have been quite different, IMO. Or Creepy Uncle Joe Biden for that matter.
 
DaLincolnJones said:
You do realize that the entire controversy was started by the Clinton campaign, dont you?
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No, before that.

Scott Brown, her Republican opponent in the Senate race, accused Warren of fabricating Native American heritage to gain advantage in the job market.[69][70][71] Former colleagues and supervisors at universities where she had worked stated that Warren's ancestry played no role in her hiring.[68][66][71][72] Warren stated that she had listed herself as a minority to meet people of similar heritage, and was unaware that Harvard had listed her as a woman of color.[73] Her brothers defended her, stating that they "grew up listening to our mother and grandmother and other relatives talk about our family's Cherokee and Delaware heritage".[74] In her 2014 autobiography, Warren stated that she had gained no career advantage from her stated heritage, and described the allegations as untrue and hurtful.[75] Genealogical investigators could not find proof that Warren's ancestors were or were not Native American.[71][76][77] The Oklahoma Historical Society said that finding a definitive answer about Native American heritage can be difficult because of intermarriage and deliberate avoidance of registration.[78]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Warren
 
BrianFromWA said:
Back to the OP, it seems the very definition of a nothingburger. I mean, I see two potential outcomes:

1) It shows some "acceptable" percentage of native american DNA that shows that she really is of the minority status that has allowed her special benefits throughout life, and allows for her to continue taking the "high road" in bashing those who want to curtail immigration and the like. Status quo.
2) It doesn't show some "acceptable" percentage of native american DNA, @tlongII is right on the money and no one will change their opinions of her one way or the other. Status quo.
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I think a more evenhanded way to state your point (and also a more evenhanded way to state my point at the beginning of this thread) would be:

1) It shows some "acceptable" percentage of native american DNA, and no one will change their opinions of her one way or the other. Status quo.
2) It doesn't show some "acceptable" percentage of native american DNA, and no one will change their opinions of her one way or the other. Status quo.

barfo
 
barfo said:
I think a more evenhanded way to state your point (and also a more evenhanded way to state my point at the beginning of this thread) would be:

1) It shows some "acceptable" percentage of native american DNA, and no one will change their opinions of her one way or the other. Status quo.
2) It doesn't show some "acceptable" percentage of native american DNA, and no one will change their opinions of her one way or the other. Status quo.

barfo
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Fair enough. But if I continually hold myself to the "barfo Evenhanded Storytelling Principle", it would get boring, quickly.
 
jonnyboy said:
As soon as someone directly refutes something you said, you simply reply "why does it matter"?

I guess that's one way to debate.
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Barfo said that Warren passing a 23test wouldn't stop Trump from continuing to say it.

DaLincolnJones responded that the controversy was started by the Clinton campaign.

You said that DaLincoln Jones had thus refuted Barfo's contention. How? (Barfo correctly responded that the origin doesn't matter to whether Warren passing a 23test wouldn't stop Trump from continuing to say it.)

You say that since the Clinton campaign made the original accusation (it didn't--see my last post--but even if it did), that origin will stop Trump. Exactly how would that stop Trump from saying it?
 
BrianFromWA said:
Fair enough. But if I continually hold myself to the "barfo Evenhanded Storytelling Principle", it would get boring, quickly.
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As the saying goes, we are cursed to live in "interesting times". No danger of things getting boring anytime soon.

barfo
 
Her brothers defended her, stating that they "grew up listening to our mother and grandmother and other relatives talk about our family's Cherokee and Delaware heritage".[74]
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This Republican conspiracy theory that Warren's relatives lied to her that they had Indian heritage--What is your theory for why they all lied to her and her brothers? They were just joshing?
 
Well if most of us are related to Genghis Khan then we're all aboriginally connected..go even further back and we're probably all related to some sponge in the ocean....who gives a shit what your human ethnic ancestory type is anyway
 
riverman said:
Well if most of us are related to Genghis Khan then we're all aboriginally connected..go even further back and we're probably all related to some sponge in the ocean....who gives a shit what your human ethnic ancestory type is anyway
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Well, when there are tangible benefits, some people do unethical things to exploit them. Some cheat on their taxes. Some lie to get college scholarships. Some to get Affirmative Action quotas. Some to get upgrades to first class.

America has decided to give a shit about ethnic ancestry to dole out benefits unequally. Whether or not you think it's good or fair or needed, it's happening. And if the Senator is one to lie to exploit those benefits for personal gain, that breach of integrity used to be enough to disqualify someone from high office. Now, the bars have been set lower, we're much more about party stratification and people can vote for someone who's a "lesser of evils" b/c we only think there are two choices.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Well, when there are tangible benefits, some people do unethical things to exploit them. Some cheat on their taxes. Some lie to get college scholarships. Some to get Affirmative Action quotas. Some to get upgrades to first class.

America has decided to give a shit about ethnic ancestry to dole out benefits unequally. Whether or not you think it's good or fair or needed, it's happening. And if the Senator is one to lie to exploit those benefits for personal gain, that breach of integrity used to be enough to disqualify someone from high office. Now, the bars have been set lower, we're much more about party stratification and people can vote for someone who's a "lesser of evils" b/c we only think there are two choices.
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people cheat...like bankruptcy or money laundering or paying hush money out to porn stars.....as far as what Warren's folks told her....not damaging in the least in my view....some even fake medical problems to get out of military service....my parents claimed we had a famous ancestor....I was probably 40 when my sister found out it wasn't true....oh well..however a young person gets a scholarship is fine with me especially if they do something with it in life. I do think we need to raise the bar for elected officials to qualify for office period and for security clearances...I want to trust our elected officials...I know...it's a stretch
 
riverman said:
people cheat...like bankruptcy or money laundering or paying hush money out to porn stars.....as far as what Warren's folks told her....not damaging in the least in my view....some even fake medical problems to get out of military service....my parents claimed we had a famous ancestor....I was probably 40 when my sister found out it wasn't true....oh well..however a young person gets a scholarship is fine with me especially if they do something with it in life.
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Yeah, that's gonna be a "no" for me. For a host of reasons.
 
So if anyone but Trump is still interested, the Boston paper is out with a fairly detailed takedown of the idea that Warren got ahead professionally owing to a claim of Native American blood.

I don't expect it will change any minds, but it should.

barfo
 
DaLincolnJones said:
You do realize that the entire controversy was started by the Clinton campaign, dont you?

As far as warren, she is a goof. As stated elsewhere, a DNA test would prove or disprove her story.
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Didn't Trump have something to say about the birth certificate? Anyway, I thought he did.
 
I too, am part Cherokee. Can I prove it? No, not yet. I bought a DNA test kit but have misplaced it somewhere. Got to find it and get the test. Sly says my testing company is not very good so it may not be accurate.

Why can't I prove my lineage otherwise? My family history on my father's side goes back to rural Alabmaa before the Civil War. Not an ideal place for keeping records.

A test on Senator Warren sounds like a good move. However, a positive result would absolutely not budge Trump. At best, you could expect him to shut up on the subject. Of course, that's at best. We've seen his views on Obama's heritage.
 
barfo said:
So if anyone but Trump is still interested, the Boston paper is out with a fairly detailed takedown of the idea that Warren got ahead professionally owing to a claim of Native American blood.

I don't expect it will change any minds, but it should.

barfo
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Help me out here! I can't possible read that much about Warren.
Is she Pocahontas or not?
 
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