Elliot Williams cleared to practice...

[Pinwheel1]

Funny this question would come up about his height, I was just thinking to myself as i watched him stand next to Roy last weeK......"he looks taller than I thought"

 

[Mediocre Man]

All this means is he gets to wear warmups rather than a suit

Matthews, Rudy, Roy, hell even Nic ahead of him at the 2

 

[STOMP]

All this means is he gets to wear warmups rather than a suit

Matthews, Rudy, Roy, hell even Nic ahead of him at the 2

do you really think he has no chance at beating Patty out for backup PG minutes? Seriously?

STOMP

 

[alex42083]

I remember being most excited about seeing Elliot play of the rookies we drafted, considering they talked a lot about 45-inch vertical or whatever it was. Hopefully the knee surgeries don't kill his legs.

 

[julius]

The worse example of this was Barkley. It always said 6'8".... man he was the exact same height as Terry Porter!

No different then you saying you're packing 8 hard inches, when your wife always tells me you're really packing 3

 

[oldmangrouch]

do you really think he has no chance at beating Patty out for backup PG minutes? Seriously?

STOMP

All I can say, is read the Draftexpress article. In college, he averaged around 4 APG, but also around 3 TOs. He could pass out of double teams and make plays in transition, but he didn't show the ability to run a half-court offense. He isn't likely to beat Patty in a long range shooting contest either. He *does* have the potential to be a much better defender. (if he is fully recovered)

 

[J~Rush]

I'm excited to see the Wizard in action.

 

[julius]

I'm excited to see the Wizard in action.

you're thinking of Walt Williams.

 

[STOMP]

All I can say, is read the Draftexpress article. In college, he averaged around 4 APG, but also around 3 TOs. He could pass out of double teams and make plays in transition, but he didn't show the ability to run a half-court offense. He isn't likely to beat Patty in a long range shooting contest either. He *does* have the potential to be a much better defender. (if he is fully recovered)

the article you sited mentions he played 2 guard at Memphis and was their featured scorer. I'm not sure what guard spot Patty played on the mighty Gaels, but his Sophomore year he averaged 3.9 Asst and 2.9 TO's and shot 34% from 3's... Elliot shot 37% from 3's in his Soph season and also led PM in overall FG% 46% to 40%. Patty is shooting 32% from deep this year. Why in the world are you siting his outside shooting like it's a strength?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=37525

Here's what the article you sited had to say about Elliot's Defensive potential...

"Defensively, Williams has excellent potential thanks to his physical attributes and the intensity he displays. He has the size and length to defend either guard position, which gives him nice versatility that NBA teams should like in time. At Duke he was often the one asked to defend the opposing team’s most talented backcourt scorer."

you're not going out on much of a limb to say he might be better defensively then Patty Mills... at least you said something I can agree with. PM is supposed to be a great guy and all, but is there a worse back court defender in the league? I wouldn't place the chances of him being back on the team next year at over 50% especially since Elliot and Armon are under contract next season and he isn't

STOMP

 

[oldmangrouch]

Stomp, I understand your lack of enthusiasm for Mills, but lets be fair. Before the season, many people were predicting that Johnson would blow by Mills on the depth chart. Instead, Mills got better and kept his job. His long-term ceiling is still pretty low, but right now I would rather have him out there than either Johnson or Williams. In fact, I see nothing to suggest that Mills, Johnson, Williams, or Babbitt have any reason to be optimistic about their NBA futures.

I suppose that makes Mills the "cream of the crop of the bottom of the barrel."

I guess this is just an "agree to disagree" situation.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Stomp, I understand your lack of enthusiasm for Mills, but lets be fair. Before the season, many people were predicting that Johnson would blow by Mills on the depth chart. Instead, Mills got better and kept his job. His long-term ceiling is still pretty low, but right now I would rather have him out there than either Johnson or Williams. In fact, I see nothing to suggest that Mills, Johnson, Williams, or Babbitt have any reason to be optimistic about their NBA futures.

I suppose that makes Mills the "cream of the crop of the bottom of the barrel."

I guess this is just an "agree to disagree" situation.

We haven't seen Williams, and what we've seen of Mills hasn't been good. Williams was better in college and has more potential, I think it's far to say he has a good chance of being better than Mills as soon as he's healthy.

 

[STOMP]

Stomp, I understand your lack of enthusiasm for Mills, but lets be fair. Before the season, many people were predicting that Johnson would blow by Mills on the depth chart.

if you were being fair, you'd address what I said and not what "people" said... people say a lot of things.

If you were being fair you'd acknowledge that I shot huge holes in all your opening points about Williams vs Patty by relaying facts about their careers

Instead, Mills got better and kept his job. His long-term ceiling is still pretty low, but right now I would rather have him out there than either Johnson or Williams.

Well Williams is just barely stepping back on the court from his rehab so it's not like you're saying much.

In fact, I see nothing to suggest that Mills, Johnson, Williams, or Babbitt have any reason to be optimistic about their NBA futures.

Williams is an elite athlete and has been thought of as one of the premiere talents in his class since HS. The club drafted him in the 1st round committing themselves for years of guaranteed contract knowing he'd likely be out for the 1st year with the corrective knee surgery. Thats Portland taking a pretty big stake in someone who "doesn't have any reason to optimistic about their NBA future."

one of those four guys has a lot more to look forward to then the other 3

STOMP

 

[jaspitzer]

He shouldn't be compared to Bayless. I just want this guy getting as much experience as possible, his ceiling is so high and he's only 21. He's going to be quicker and more athletic than most guys on the court. the problem is we need a back up PG, but I hate when we try turning 2s into 1s. With time and a lot of hard work, I think he could possibly become a guy somewhat like Jrue Holiday, but it's a long shot what with the 2 to 1 transition and all. If it can be done, he's definitely a success at the 17th pick. If not then we'll only see him in garbage minutes when roy, rudy, and wes aren't in. His handles are a little suspect because of his weak right hand, but everything I've read indicates he has NBA ready defensive skills. But he's been a top recruit since his high school days and I think we should be happy he's a blazer and wait for the upside.

 

[oldmangrouch]

if you were being fair, you'd address what I said and not what "people" said... people say a lot of things.

If you were being fair you'd acknowledge that I shot huge holes in all your opening points about Williams vs Patty by relaying facts about their careers

Well Williams is just barely stepping back on the court from his rehab so it's not like you're saying much.

Williams is an elite athlete and has been thought of as one of the premiere talents in his class since HS. The club drafted him in the 1st round committing themselves for years of guaranteed contract knowing he'd likely be out for the 1st year with the corrective knee surgery. Thats Portland taking a pretty big stake in someone who "doesn't have any reason to optimistic about their NBA future."

one of those four guys has a lot more to look forward to then the other 3

STOMP

Just out of curiosity, why are you taking this so personally?

In the interest of full disclosure: Last summer I (foolishly) defended the Webster/Babbitt trade, and (foolishly) predicted Johnson would beat out Mills. If you want to flame me for that wrong-headed optimism, go ahead. I deserve that. Getting defensive because I have a pessimistic view of Williams? That I don't understand.

 

[andalusian]

I still think Johnson will have a longer and better career than Mills. It's just that the Blazers needed scoring given all the injuries and lack of fire-power - and Mills provided both a change of pace and some scoring - in addition to some additional experience. Nothing against Patty - I like the kid and wish him the best - but AJ has the tools to actually be a PG in this league - and I believe he will harness these tools sooner or later. Patty really is an undersized combo guard.

 

[STOMP]

Just out of curiosity, why are you taking this so personally?

I'm the one making it personal??? I presented facts that directly counter your opinions about Patty being more of a PG and outside shooter. In addressing your opinion about Johnson & Williams being behind Mills next season I also pointed out they're under contract next year while Patty is a UFA.

Just out of curiosity, why do you stay on the attack constantly? I've addressed/countered your points, you just blow by my responses/questions.

In the interest of full disclosure: Last summer I (foolishly) defended the Webster/Babbitt trade, and (foolishly) predicted Johnson would beat out Mills. If you want to flame me for that wrong-headed optimism, go ahead. I deserve that. Getting defensive because I have a pessimistic view of Williams? That I don't understand.

what has Martell done as a sub on the terrible Wolves that makes you regret defending that trade? Babbitt was the garnish. Clearing MW's salary (via Ryan Gomes EC) gave them the room to sign Wesley so that was part of a huge upgrade for Portland. In retrospect I'm thinking management probably strongly suspected what was the new reality with Brandon and made bold moves to address their void at SG... can you imagine how this season would have gone if Webster had been the 2 guard instead?

While to my eyes (like just about everyone else's) Babbitt has looked awkward and lost in his PT, he's still a rookie. I've seen enough players take big strides forward in their 2nd years to not want to write him off just yet. He does have good measurables so I've a glimmer of hope that things click for him in year two. Johnson is in the same boat as a fellow rook and is bigger longer & faster then Mills. If thats my view, how can I blame you for being overly optimistic?

STOMP

 

[oldmangrouch]

Stomp - who do you think I am attacking?

Nothing I have said was meant as an attack on *you*.

As for KP and his 2 steaming piles of revenge (I don't count Johnson since he was a 2nd round pick)......I have been trying really hard to tone it down! Everytime the team has lost a game due to fatigue/lack of depth, I want to go into full on rant mode.

 

[STOMP]

Stomp - who do you think I am attacking?

Nothing I have said was meant as an attack on *you*.

I'm not saying personal attack as there have been no insults exchanged, but rather how you won't acknowledge when I counter your opinions with contradicting facts or answer my questions. For example, you claimed that Patty is the decided better 3 pt shooter then Elliot so I provided the stats that indicate the exact opposite to be true. It's more then my opinion that Elliot has been a better 3 pt shooter. The same is true with the Assist to TO stats you relayed. Why not acknowledge that you were wrong or answer my question about why you are contending that Mills is a great outside shooter when he's hitting all of 32% from deep this year? Instead you just switch gears and go on the offensive on some other angle.

As for KP and his 2 steaming piles of revenge (I don't count Johnson since he was a 2nd round pick)......I have been trying really hard to tone it down! Everytime the team has lost a game due to fatigue/lack of depth, I want to go into full on rant mode.

It would come as an unexpected bonus to receive much real help from non-lotto rookies. League wide, how many are making a positive difference this year? Certainly Martell has been a 5M pile of steaming crap this year, yet him you miss...

STOMP

 

[Natebishop3]

The worse example of this was Barkley. It always said 6'8".... man he was the exact same height as Terry Porter!

I thought Barkley was listed at 6'4.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

it would be nice if one of these draft picks eventually turned into at least a rotation player (babbitt, williams, koponen, claver, freeland), but i think thats the gamble in picking up these mid to late 1sts...some batums, some garbage

 

[MickZagger]

I thought Barkley was listed at 6'4.

He was always listed 6'6" from what I remember.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I'm not saying personal attack as there have been no insults exchanged, but rather how you won't acknowledge when I counter your opinions with contradicting facts or answer my questions. For example, you claimed that Patty is the decided better 3 pt shooter then Elliot so I provided the stats that indicate the exact opposite to be true. It's more then my opinion that Elliot has been a better 3 pt shooter. The same is true with the Assist to TO stats you relayed. Why not acknowledge that you were wrong or answer my question about why you are contending that Mills is a great outside shooter when he's hitting all of 32% from deep this year? Instead you just switch gears and go on the offensive on some other angle.


It would come as an unexpected bonus to receive much real help from non-lotto rookies. League wide, how many are making a positive difference this year? Certainly Martell has been a 5M pile of steaming crap this year, yet him you miss...

STOMP

I am no great fan of Webster, but he is a decent NBA reserve. I "missed" him because the team went through a prolonged streak where Batum was the only real SF on the roster. Late last season, Webster took a key step forward. When his shot wasn't falling, he still played hard and contributed in other areas, instead of just turning invisible.

For the record, I will cheerfully admit that Williams was a better college prospect than Mills. I never denied that, but as I tried to point out before, Mills is no longer that player. He has proven he is 100% recovered from his injuries, and he has shown at least some improvement as a player. He is still an inconsistent player with a limited future, but he has exceeded my expectations. At this point, IMHO, Williams has a even more to prove than Mills.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

He was always listed 6'6" from what I remember.

Barkley was announced at 6'8" so that was his Media Guide height. But he was actually 6'4".

 

[oldmangrouch]

Barkley was announced at 6'8" so that was his Media Guide height. But he was actually 6'4".

Do you remember the incident when Auburn (with Barkley) upset Kentucky (with Bowie and "Dinner Bell" Mel Turpin)?

After the game, Turpin was whining that everytime Barkley backed him down, his big butt was hitting Turpin in the knees!

So, not only did you get owned - you got owned by a fat, little dwarf? Way to rub salt in your own wounds Mel.

 

[STOMP]

Barkley was announced at 6'8" so that was his Media Guide height. But he was actually 6'4".

6'6 Martell Webster is also 6'9... and on and on

STOMP

 

[jlprk]

The worse example of this was Barkley. It always said 6'8".... man he was the exact same height as Terry Porter!

No no no, you were looking at the site for stats when players lie on their backs. When standing, he's about 5-9.

 

[jlprk]

it would be nice if one of these draft picks eventually turned into at least a rotation player (babbitt, williams, koponen, claver, freeland), but i think thats the gamble in picking up these mid to late 1sts...some batums, some garbage

Pritchard was a bulk shooter. He drafted a lot of picks, enabled by Allen's money, and shot about .250.

Every draft, I'd read what a genius Pritchard was for making 15 trades to draft 4 guys and then stash half of them in Europe and I'd think, way too soon, IRRIT In real results I trust.

 

[blazerboy30]

For the record, I will cheerfully admit that Williams was a better college prospect than Mills. I never denied that, but as I tried to point out before, Mills is no longer that player. He has proven he is 100% recovered from his injuries, and he has shown at least some improvement as a player. He is still an inconsistent player with a limited future, but he has exceeded my expectations.

I think what people are questioning is *why* you have a negative view of Williams as compared to Mills. So far the reasons you've put forth have been shown to be false. Did you see him play a lot in college? What is causing you to think he won't surpass Mills, even though at similar points in their careers, Williams has shown to be a better talent?

At this point, IMHO, Williams has a even more to prove than Mills.

What does this mean? I don't care who has "more to prove". I care who puts forth more production and better defense.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I think what people are questioning is *why* you have a negative view of Williams as compared to Mills. So far the reasons you've put forth have been shown to be false. Did you see him play a lot in college? What is causing you to think he won't surpass Mills, even though at similar points in their careers, Williams has shown to be a better talent?



What does this mean? I don't care who has "more to prove". I care who puts forth more production and better defense.

The short answer.

I only saw him play a few times in college, but what I saw confirmed every pre-draft scouting report that I read. His offensive game is largely a clone of Bayless.

Attacking the hoop and drawing fouls is a useful skill - but as we saw with Bayless, if that is *all* a player does on offense, the other teams will soon scout him out and shut him down.

As I said before, *if healthy* he has the potential to be a good defensive player - but before I annoint him as such, I need to see some proof that his 2 bad knees haven't permanently damaged his athleticism.

As for Mills, he is a bad defender and inconsistent shooter. OTOH, he is at least as good a passer as Williams, and a superior ball-handler. (Williams has a history of struggling against pressure.) Lastly, while Mills is undeniably more comfortable in transition than in the half-court, at least he played PG fulltime in college. Williams was never asked to direct the offense in the half-court.

Not that you are going to agree with anything I just wrote, but whatever....

 

[STOMP]

As I said before, *if healthy* he has the potential to be a good defensive player - but before I annoint him as such, I need to see some proof that his 2 bad knees haven't permanently damaged his athleticism.

"He's going to have a good future," Blazers coach Nate McMillan said. "After having the surgery, he should be able to come back 100 percent.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2010/nov/17/no-headline---2010-11-16-232955353539/

the medical outlook from the beginning was that the sort of surgery he was getting wouldn't affect his athleticism. His kneecaps were both sliding out of place casing swelling/pain, the surgery was done to stabilize them so this wouldn't continue to happen... it wasn't a joint or cartilage issue. Portland drafted him knowing these issues existed and he would likely require the surgeries. If it weren't for these known issues, he'd probably have gone in the late lotto.

As the article in the OP relays, his recent checkup went great and he's looking to resume full basketball activities by the end of next month. He should be easily the most athletic guard on the roster... I look forward to adding yet another long athletic defender to their many already on board. He's likely to be their best option on PGs

http://www.blazersedge.com/2010/11/...liams-discusses-his-season-ending-knee-injury

As for Mills, he is a bad defender and inconsistent shooter. OTOH, he is at least as good a passer as Williams, and a superior ball-handler. (Williams has a history of struggling against pressure.) Lastly, while Mills is undeniably more comfortable in transition than in the half-court, at least he played PG fulltime in college. Williams was never asked to direct the offense in the half-court.

yet at the same point in his college career he was averaging the same exact Assists and TOs as Patty playing against a much higher level of competition. Go figure...

STOMP