Politics Enough with the Hillary cult: Her admirers ignore reality, dream of worshipping a queen

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You showed no proof other than those that study politics on a daily basis think Sanders' plans are economic suicide. Reason to support anyone but him.

The math doesn't add up to the promise. Where single payer is tried, wait times are outrageous, research is greatly diminished, treatment is denied or drastically delayed, medical equipment per capita is a fraction of ours, medical professionals are squeezed, etc.

Whoever believes we can save money, add 10s of millions of people to the burden on the system, and maintain a similar quality of care is believing in fantasy.

In the UK, they have an 18 week referral to treatment requirement. People die waiting for treatment.
http://www.uclh.nhs.uk/pandv/choosingourservices/18weeks/Pages/Home.aspx

Wait times in Canada:
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/profile/bacchus-barua

Before national health care, Euopean nations produced ~60% of medical breakthroughs. Since, they produce 12%.
http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v14/n2/full/nm0208-107.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/05/business/05scene.html

All sorts of good stuff from NBER (I look forward to your attack on NBER). Includes equipment per capita, wait times, and more.
http://www.nber.org/bah/fall07/w13429.html

Canadian doctors make dramatically less than their U.S. Counterparts
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...dramatically-less-than-u-s-counterparts-study
 
Denny Crane said:
You showed no proof other than those that study politics on a daily basis think Sanders' plans are economic suicide. Reason to support anyone but him.

The math doesn't add up to the promise. Where single payer is tried, wait times are outrageous, research is greatly diminished, treatment is denied or drastically delayed, medical equipment per capita is a fraction of ours, medical professionals are squeezed, etc.

Whoever believes we can save money, add 10s of millions of people to the burden on the system, and maintain a similar quality of care is believing in fantasy.

In the UK, they have an 18 week referral to treatment requirement. People die waiting for treatment.
http://www.uclh.nhs.uk/pandv/choosingourservices/18weeks/Pages/Home.aspx

Wait times in Canada:
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/profile/bacchus-barua

Before national health care, Euopean nations produced ~60% of medical breakthroughs. Since, they produce 12%.
http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v14/n2/full/nm0208-107.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/05/business/05scene.html

All sorts of good stuff from NBER (I look forward to your attack on NBER). Includes equipment per capita, wait times, and more.
http://www.nber.org/bah/fall07/w13429.html

Canadian doctors make dramatically less than their U.S. Counterparts
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...dramatically-less-than-u-s-counterparts-study
Click to expand...

In space, two aliens are talking to each other...

The first alien says, "The dominant life forms on the Earth planet have developed satellite-based nuclear weapons."

The second alien asks, "Are they an emerging intelligence?"

The first alien says, "I don't think so, they have aimed at themselves"
 
Sure. Bernie's plan would "nuke" ourselves. Good one.

You showed no proof other than those that study politics on a daily basis think Sanders' plans are economic suicide. Reason to support anyone but him.

The math doesn't add up to the promise. Where single payer is tried, wait times are outrageous, research is greatly diminished, treatment is denied or drastically delayed, medical equipment per capita is a fraction of ours, medical professionals are squeezed, etc.

Whoever believes we can save money, add 10s of millions of people to the burden on the system, and maintain a similar quality of care is believing in fantasy.

In the UK, they have an 18 week referral to treatment requirement. People die waiting for treatment.
http://www.uclh.nhs.uk/pandv/choosingourservices/18weeks/Pages/Home.aspx

Wait times in Canada:
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/profile/bacchus-barua

Before national health care, Euopean nations produced ~60% of medical breakthroughs. Since, they produce 12%.
http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v14/n2/full/nm0208-107.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/05/business/05scene.html

All sorts of good stuff from NBER (I look forward to your attack on NBER). Includes equipment per capita, wait times, and more.
http://www.nber.org/bah/fall07/w13429.html

Canadian doctors make dramatically less than their U.S. Counterparts
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...dramatically-less-than-u-s-counterparts-study
 
Denny Crane said:
You showed no proof other than those that study politics on a daily basis think Sanders' plans are economic suicide. Reason to support anyone but him.
Click to expand...

You have shown no proof that Sanders plans are economic suicide. You're just hand waving...

Denny Crane said:
In the UK, they have an 18 week referral to treatment requirement. People die waiting for treatment.
http://www.uclh.nhs.uk/pandv/choosingourservices/18weeks/Pages/Home.aspx

Wait times in Canada:
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/profile/bacchus-barua

Before national health care, Euopean nations produced ~60% of medical breakthroughs. Since, they produce 12%.
http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v14/n2/full/nm0208-107.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/05/business/05scene.html

All sorts of good stuff from NBER (I look forward to your attack on NBER). Includes equipment per capita, wait times, and more.
http://www.nber.org/bah/fall07/w13429.html

Canadian doctors make dramatically less than their U.S. Counterparts
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...dramatically-less-than-u-s-counterparts-study
Click to expand...

Siting the problems of other countries isn't proof of what will happen here in America.

Your links actually show the kinds of problems the U.S. should avoid when implementing the system here. Not that they shouldn't be implemented here in America. :tongue:

People die in America even without a single payer system. 25,000-45,000 Americans die every year due to lack of health insurance. These numbers may have changed with Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare as some wingnuts like to call it, but I can't find any newer reports than these.

http://obamacarefacts.com/facts-on-deaths-due-to-lack-of-health-insurance-in-us/

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/sto...s-annually-linked-to-lack-of-health-coverage/

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/09/dying-from-lack-of-insurance/

Noam Chomsky thinks Sanders has the best plans out of all the candidates:



Not that any of this matters. Our corrupt system won't allow Sanders to become president anyway.
 
Citing the obamacare site? Tell me more about this propaganda conspiracy theories you have.

Fuck Chomsky. He was a Pol Pot sympathizer. He raved about how great those commies Were as they committed genocide of millions.

I looked at your "factcheck" link and it's full of data and quotes from.... Drum roll... The URBAN INSTITUTE! Your favorite.

Tell me more about this propaganda conspiracy theories you have again.

You can't refute why single payer is worse than what we have. Avoiding other nations' mistakes? How many $trillions of debt is that going to cost us extra?
 
Road Ratt said:
25,000-45,000 Americans die every year due to lack of health insurance.
Click to expand...
Nobody dies from lack of health insurance. No one! They may die from lack of care, but when everyone has the same crappy insurance it doesn't mean they have healthcare.
 
40a.jpg
 
I've been doing my best to post a number of topics within this one thread so the OT section isn't full of a bunch of similar topics.

In that light,

 
Lost their minds when deciding to support Sanders, IMO.

http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article78199247.html

A lot of Democrats don’t want to admit it, but Donald Trump isn’t the only presidential candidate playing with fire and recklessly courting an angry mob.

For the latest round of curse-word hurling, chair throwing, social-media stalking and conspiracy-theory swapping, look no further than the supporters of Bernie Sanders.

Over the weekend, dozens of Sanders devotees lost their minds after the Nevada Democratic Party, meeting for its convention in Las Vegas, awarded a majority of delegates to front-runner Hillary Clinton.
 
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/280283-amid-dem-infighting-polls-are-improving-for-trump

Amid Democratic infighting, polls are improving for Trump

The poll also suggested that hopes among Democrats of an easy win over Trump are misplaced. Tuesday’s poll had Clinton with an edge of just 3 points in a hypothetical match-up: The former secretary of State led Trump 48 percent to 45 percent.

...

To be sure, it’s early. Polling numbers at this point in an election cycle can be significantly out of line with the results in November.

But there are warning signs for Clinton, nonetheless.

...

Democrats can take some comfort from the fact that the electoral map is more comfortable ground for them than for Republicans these days. But Clinton, who has been center stage in national politics for a generation, is running in a year when pro-insurgent sentiment is strong.

Some experts believe Clinton’s position might improve once she becomes the presumptive nominee of her party, something Trump has already accomplished.

“Trump might be getting something of a ‘unity bonus’ that Clinton might yet realize after Sanders leaves the race, whenever that is,” said Kyle Kondik of the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics.
 
http://www.bostonherald.com/opinion...iral_video_shows_years_of_hillary_s_lyin_ways

Parker: Viral video shows years of Hillary’s lyin’ ways

WASHINGTON — You could say that it all depends on how you define “lie.” Or, perhaps, that it’s hell to have a public record.

Either way, Hillary Clinton’s vast resume of, shall we say, inconsistencies, is the dog that caught the car and won’t let go. A viral video collection of her comments on various subjects through the years is bestirring Republican hearts.

To those who’d rather vote for a reality show host than a Clinton, the video merely confirms what they’ve believed all along. For independents and even Democrats, it’s a reminder of how often Clinton has morphed into a fresh incarnation as required by the political moment.

Most of the highlights would be familiar to anyone who follows politics — her varying takes on Bosnia, health care, Wall Street, NAFTA — but the juxtaposition of these ever-shifting views is more jarring than one might expect. Politicians count on Americans’ short attention spans (and memories) as much as they do their own policies and/or charms. This video, inartfully titled “Hillary Clinton lying for 13 minutes straight,” clarifies blurred recollections and recasts them in an order that, among other things, reminds us how long the Clintons have been around.

...

Presumptive nominees Clinton and Trump are equally egregious in their misstatements, if in substantively different ways. Clinton is measured, poised, concentrated and studied when she revises her personal history. Trump just says whatever tiny thought penetrates his prefrontal cortex where
inhibitory functioning is obviously kaput, blurting absurdities and bromides the way pirates toss plastic beads from papier-mache ships at Mardi Gras.
 
Denny Crane said:
Lost their minds when deciding to support Sanders, IMO.

http://www.sacbee.com/opinion/editorials/article78199247.html

A lot of Democrats don’t want to admit it, but Donald Trump isn’t the only presidential candidate playing with fire and recklessly courting an angry mob.

For the latest round of curse-word hurling, chair throwing, social-media stalking and conspiracy-theory swapping, look no further than the supporters of Bernie Sanders.

Over the weekend, dozens of Sanders devotees lost their minds after the Nevada Democratic Party, meeting for its convention in Las Vegas, awarded a majority of delegates to front-runner Hillary Clinton.
Click to expand...


Sounds like you are buying the party narrative written by Hillary Clinton and her supporters.

https://shadowproof.com/2016/05/17/...-state-party-convention-blamed-sanders-chaos/
 
Whats this about BJ Clinton riding around on the "Lolita Express" jet where they have orgies with underaged girls?
 
Denny Crane said:
I didn't say anything about throwing chairs. Just that they lost their minds.
Click to expand...


because:

  • Lange and an executive board secretly voted on rules two weeks before the convention to give Lange “exclusive control” over the convention and strictly limit motions, as well as challenges to rulings by the chair
  • Voted on “temporary rules” for the convention and cheated by calling the vote for the “yeas” when the “nays” clearly had larger numbers. The vote happened early at 9:30 am before all the delegates had arrived. [Video here.]
Nevada State Democratic Party Chairwoman Roberta Lange.
  • The State Democratic Party was provided with petitions from twenty percent of the delegates in attendance to challenge the adopted rules. Signatures were collected ahead of the convention because there were activists well-aware of what the Party would try to do with the new “temporary rules.” In fact, one of these people, Angie Morelli, was a plaintiff in a lawsuit against the Party, which was partly dismissed a day before the convention. The leadership pretended to accept the petitions and then ignored the fact that proper procedure had been followed, blocking any challenges, which effectively disenfranchised a subsection of people attempting to have their voices heard.
  • Lange granted herself the authority to have the final decision on all the delegates excluded from the convention. There were 56 Sanders delegates and four Clinton delegates, which were deemed to have improper or inadequate registration information. The number of Clinton delegates outnumbered Sanders delegates by only 33 delegates.
  • When one of the members of the state party committees attempted to read a “Minority Report,” reflecting what had happened with the decision to exclude 56 Sanders delegates, Lange tried to take the microphone out of the hand of the person, who was about to read the report.
  • Multiple attempts were made to bring motions in order to remove Lange as chair of the state party convention because it appeared to be Lange who was responsible for eruptions of disorder. Congressional candidate Dan Rolle hopped on a megaphone to make a motion and had the megaphone confiscated. Then, Rolle tried again later when he had access to the microphone to make a motion for a “no confidence” vote. The leadership cut off his microphone.
  • Nina Turner, one of the most prominent and well-respected Sanders surrogates, was there to represent his campaign at the convention. Yet, abruptly, the leadership switched the order and had Senator Barbara Boxer go on stage to speak for the Clinton campaign. Her speech riled up supporters, and as she was booed, she kept riling them up by berating them.
  • Lange moved to adjourn the convention when there was a motion made for a recount on the floor late in the convention.
  • State Democratic Party leadership refused to acknowledge delegates from the Sanders side, who were following the rules to make motions, and effectively sowed chaos in the process. As they fled the convention after abruptly adjourning, Las Vegas metro police lined the stage. Sanders delegates contemplated a civil disobedience action in response, but eventually, most left the room as it was cleared. This image of police in the room helped the Party spread propaganda in the hours after that it was the Sanders people who were “violent,” and brought the convention to the point of chaos where it was not safe for people anymore.
Click to expand...

People were upset and they had a right to be, but it was a set up.
 
First Fox News Poll, now Rasmussen show Trump ahead of Hiliar.

They talked about it on CNN yesterday, and one of the Hiliar supporters started out with "I don't pay any attention to anything Fox News says" and Anderson Cooper replied, "Fox is transparent about how they do their polling and we respect these results."

Rasmussen: Trump +5
CNN, Fox News Trump +3

And for @barfo:

upload_2016-5-19_7-26-1.png
 
Hiliar lost Oregon and won Kentucky. She got 51 delegates out of it to Sanders' 55.

Great system the Democratic Party has in place. Not so democratic.
 
A conspiracy theory I've seen written about lately. Due to Hiliar's poor polling and it looking like Trump might demolish her in the general election, Obama administration does indict her around convention time so they can replace her as the nominee with Joe Biden.
 
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