ESPN:Chad Ford Offseason Grades For The West

[THE HCP]

http://insider.espn.com/nba/insider...offseason-grades-chad-ford-western-conference



Dallas C+
Denver B
Golden State A+
Houston B+
Clips C
Lakers B
Memphis C+
Minny A-
Nola C
OKC C-
Phoenix B+
Portland B
Sac D+
Spurs A-
Utah A-

 

[STOMP]

No Fs and only one D... and it's a D+. Chad pumping the sunshine over the entire West. For Portland it isn't a secret that Turner is supposed to "fit" in at the 3 for a good chunk of his minutes.

STOMP

 

[ripcityboy]

"250 million on the backcourt?" Fuckin' A Right!

 

[BigGameDamian]

Anyone else notice that the Lakers got the same grade as the Blazers? Houston even got a higher grade. HCP is spamming the forum!

 

[Boob-No-More]

Anyone else notice that the Lakers got the same grade as the Blazers? Houston even got a higher grade. HCP is spamming the forum!

Either you missed the point of these off season grades, or you're trolling, likely both. Big deal, the Lakers and Rockets "improved" as much, or slightly more than the Blazers. When you suck, there is much more room for improvement, and the Lakers had more room for improvement than any team in the Western Conference.

What is more telling is that two of the 4 teams that finished ahead of us last year, OKC and LAC got worse grades than the Blazers. To me, this means we have a very realistic shot at a top 3 or 4 finish and HCA in the first round of the playoffs. Of course, they still have to play the games, but on paper, this agrees with my sentiments - that we have a legitimate shot at passing OKC and winning the NW Division and we also have a shot at passing the aging Clippers and their weak bench.

BNM

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

you missed the point

Fixed, duh.

 

[handiman]

we have a legitimate shot at passing OKC and winning the NW Division

Minnesota might, and should, be saying the same thing.

 

[Chris Craig]

I don't think Denver really improved, they got some bodies, and possible talent, but I don't see them getting a B...Houston different improve that much if any...they lost Howard...how does Minny get an A- for signing a couple of role players...and San Antonio...Duncan retires, they trade Boris Diaw to the Jazz for nothing, let McCallum and David West walk, and barely resign Ginobli and sign old man gasol and they get an A-?

 

[mook]

How does OKC lose the third best player in the league and come out with a grade of C- ? They went from championship contender to first round hopeful. I can't think of another recent team that's fallen that far that fast. The Aldridge Exodus pales in comparison to this disaster. Sure, they re-signed Westbrook. Sure, they got some nice pieces for Ibaka. But really, what the fuck is OKC going to do without Durant? That team is basically consigned to several years of Russ's muscle-ball first round exits until his athleticism fades, and hoping to eventually draft another Durant. That shit is seriously depressing, given they were just a few months ago up 3-1 in the WCF's.

On more general note, how many times have I read "The west only got harder this year." At least since 1997 or so. It can't always be true, of course. In preseason projections people always underestimate age and injury. It's only natural. A guy puts up 20 ppg at 31 so you assume he'll do that at 32, then at 33, etc.

And people overestimate the impact of guys moving to new teams. For example, the West got way less competitive this year with Durant moving to GS. GS won 73 games last year--how many more wins can Durant possibly bring them? 1? 3? If they even reach 73 again it would be a massive achievement. Sure, if we make the WCF GS will just buzzsaw us, but that was going to happen anyway. We now have a much better chance of getting that far.

Durant basically made the west massively less competitive by removing from relevance the 2nd or 3rd most talented player in the NBA. Portland will be far more competitive in every Thunder game than it was before--that's potentially 2 more wins right there (we went 2-2 in the regular season).

 

[Chris Craig]

Dallas Mavericks: C

If it weren't for the Mavericks signing of Barnes I would have given them an F. As it is they replaced Chandler Parsons with Barnes, who I don't really consider much of an upgrade. They also signed Bogut, to move young big man Salah Mejri back to the bench. They also signed role players Seth curry and Quincy Acy, if they can be called that, along with rookie AJ Hammons and couple other hopefuls. These new additions could prove a good fit with Nowitzi, Williams, Matthews, Barea, and Anderson. Only time will tell. As for an offseason grade, the Mavericks have barely managed to piece together a so/so roster, that might get the Mavericks back to the playoffs once more. C

 

[Chris Craig]

For more of my offseason grades head to blazerland in a bit

 

[BonesJones]

Minnesota might, and should, be saying the same thing.

No they should not. They only have one above average NBA player.

 

[JDC]

No they should not. They only have one above average NBA player.

Harsh. Wiggins, Rubio and Dieng are better than average and that "one above average NBA player" you speak of had one of the best statistical rookie seasons ever.

If Wiggins makes another modest jump this year, Towns keeps getting better plus the Thibs>>>>Mitchell factor...they have a chance to make an 09-10 OKC type jump (23-59 to 50-32). It's not likely, but the argument can be made for it.

 

[BonesJones]

Harsh. Wiggins, Rubio and Dieng are better than average and that "one above average NBA player" you speak of had one of the best statistical rookie seasons ever.

If Wiggins makes another modest jump this year, Towns keeps getting better plus the Thibs>>>>Mitchell factor...they have a chance to make an 09-10 OKC type jump (23-59 to 50-32). It's not likely, but the argument can be made for it.

Lol Wiggins is the most overrated player in the league!!!

-19,0 pts, 4.1reb, and 2.1ast per 36 on awful 3 point shooting (30%) and bleh efficiency (45% FGs) for someone that doesn't shoot outside shots. Hell, Rudy Gay has higher shooting percentages across the board as well as more assists! Yet people claim Rudy Gay is one of the biggest chuckers in the league.
-Not to mention he is one of the worst defenders in the league. So what does he bring to the table that helps a team?

Rubio isn't a top 15 PG. He's a below average starting PG in this league.
Dieng? Yeah he's a solid piece, but nothing special. None of those guys would be a top 5 piece on a championship team.

 

[JDC]

Lol Wiggins is the most overrated player in the league!!!

-19,0 pts, 4.1reb, and 2.1ast per 36 on awful 3 point shooting (30%) and bleh efficiency (45% FGs) for someone that doesn't shoot outside shots. Hell, Rudy Gay has higher shooting percentages across the board as well as more assists! Yet people claim Rudy Gay is one of the biggest chuckers in the league.
-Not to mention he is one of the worst defenders in the league. So what does he bring to the table that helps a team?

Rubio isn't a top 15 PG. He's a below average starting PG in this league.
Dieng? Yeah he's a solid piece, but nothing special. None of those guys would be a top 5 piece on a championship team.

Wiggins is 20, and you can point to plenty of guys his age with the issues that you're describing who turned out to be great players. And I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about Dieng and Rubio.

While I'm here, what do you expect their record to be? I'll go with 42-40, with a chance to finish ahead of Dallas and Memphis and earn 7th/8th playoff spot.

 

[BonesJones]

Wiggins is 20, and you can point to plenty of guys his age with the issues that you're describing who turned out to be great players. And I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about Dieng and Rubio.

While I'm here, what do you expect their record to be? I'll go with 42-40, with a chance to finish ahead of Dallas and Memphis and earn 7th/8th playoff spot.

Yeah, in 5 years Wiggins might be an all-star. But right now he's a worse player than Rudy Gay.

They'll go 35-47

 

[Chris Craig]

Yeah, in 5 years Wiggins might be an all-star. But right now he's a worse player than Rudy Gay.

They'll go 35-47

Nah, the Twolves are going to be at least at .500 this season if not better

 

[Boob-No-More]

For more of my offseason grades head to blazerland in a bit

"Golden State Warriors: B-

The Warriors sacrificed most of their bench, letting Baroda, Rush, Speights, and Ezeli walk away to sign Kevin Durant. To feel the gap, the Warriors signed David West, Zaza Pachulia, Elliot Williams, and drafted Patrick McCaw. Some say the addition of Durant makes the Warriors the best team in the west, and a shoo in to finally break the Bulls win record..."

They already broke the Bulls win record. The Bulls record was 72-10, the Warriors went 73-9 last season

Not sure how you can give the team that acquired what you later call the 3rd best player in the league a B-. Adding Durant gives them the last 3 league MVPs and 5 of the last 7 scoring champs. Durant is a HUGE upgrade over Harrison Barnes. They can now have two of Durant, Curry and Klay Thompson on the court at all times, without any of them playing excessive minutes. All three of those players are capable of going off for 20+ points is a quarter or 50+ points in a game.

Yeah, their bench got a little thinner, but the kept Shaun Livingston and Andre Iguodala, their two most important reserves. And, the best starting 5 in the game got even better. Durant is an upgrade over Barnes in every way. They lost Bogut, but Zaza is an adequate replacement. He's not the shot blocker Bogut is, but he's a better scorer and better rebounder. He just needs to perfect the Bogut stumbling backwards moving screen, and they won't miss Bogut one bit. Should be easy, there is plenty of footage on youtube, and the same coaches who taught Bogut that move can teach it to Zaza.

Will they win more than 73 games. Most likely not. That requires an insane amount of focus and health, plus a little luck, but in the end, they are a better team than they were last year and for landing one of the top free agents EVER, should deserve a better grade than the Clippers, Timberwolves and Pelicans (and they are the Pelicans, by the way, not the Hornets).

BNM

 

[Chris Craig]

"Golden State Warriors: B-

The Warriors sacrificed most of their bench, letting Baroda, Rush, Speights, and Ezeli walk away to sign Kevin Durant. To feel the gap, the Warriors signed David West, Zaza Pachulia, Elliot Williams, and drafted Patrick McCaw. Some say the addition of Durant makes the Warriors the best team in the west, and a shoo in to finally break the Bulls win record..."

They already broke the Bulls win record. The Bulls record was 72-10, the Warriors went 73-9 last season

Not sure how you can give the team that acquired what you later call the 3rd best player in the league a B-. Adding Durant gives them the last 3 league MVPs and 5 of the last 7 scoring champs. Durant is a HUGE upgrade over Harrison Barnes. They can now have two of Durant, Curry and Klay Thompson on the court at all times, without any of them playing excessive minutes. All three of those players are capable of going off for 20+ points is a quarter or 50+ points in a game.

Yeah, their bench got a little thinner, but the kept Shaun Livingston and Andre Iguodala, their two most important reserves. And, the best starting 5 in the game got even better. Durant is an upgrade over Barnes in every way. They lost Bogut, but Zaza is an adequate replacement. He's not the shot blocker Bogut is, but he's a better scorer and better rebounder. He just needs to perfect the Bogut stumbling backwards moving screen, and they won't miss Bogut one bit. Should be easy, there is plenty of footage on youtube, and the same coaches who taught Bogut that move can teach it to Zaza.

Will they win more than 73 games. Most likely not. That requires an insane amount of focus and health, plus a little luck, but in the end, they are a better team than they were last year and for landing one of the top free agents EVER, should deserve a better grade than the Clippers, Timberwolves and Pelicans (and they are the Pelicans, by the way, not the Hornets).

BNM

Thanks @Boob-No-More for pointing out that they did indeed break the record last season. I have edited that along with some typos. For someone reason I thought they had tied it. Anyway I stand by my B-. It might stun you to know that getting the same or similar grade as another team does not mean I think New Orleans is better then the Warriors, I gave grades based on their offseason. I gave the Warriors a B- minus because they picked up a bunch of less than favorable bench players and relied on late picks in the draft to fill their 15 roster spots. Regardless of still having Iguodola and Livingston, their bench is one of the worst. Oh, and Zaza is puke, Iguodola will likely start with Green at center and Durant at the 4. They get a B-

 

[Boob-No-More]

Thanks @Boob-No-More for pointing out that they did indeed break the record last season. I have edited that along with some typos. For someone reason I thought they had tied it. Anyway I stand by my B-. It might stun you to know that getting the same or similar grade as another does not mean I think New Orleans is better then the Warriors, I gave grades based on their offseason. I gave the Warriors a B- minus because they pick up a bunch of horrible bench players and relied on late picks in the draft to fill their 15 roster spots. They get a B-

But, how much will those bench players they lost, impact their record? Other than Barnes, who is MORE than replaced by Durant, they lost (in terms of minutes played) their 7th, 8th, 9th, 10, and 11th men. Bogut, who was 7th in minutes played was replaced with Zaza, who played over 500 minutes more. Speights was replaced by West, who played more minutes and averaged as many points and more rebounds. Ezeli missed 36 games and average 17 MPG when he did play - and they replaced him with an almost identical, younger player who went to the same college and posted almost identical numbers.

Ultimately, when you add one of the top 5 (arguably top 3) players in the game to a 73-win team you deserve a better grade than the Clippers. Who was the Clippers big acquisition? Did they acquire anyone NEAR Durant's talent. Hell no. Their two biggest off season acquisitions were Maurice Speights, a guy who played 11 MPG for GSW and Raymond Felton, who sucks. On top of that, they lost two players (Cole Aldrich and Jeff Green) who are better than anyone they added. Thye STILL don't have a decent starting SF, their already shitty bench got worse and their best players, who are injury prone, got another year older. How is their offseason as good as the team that landed Kevin Durant?

BNM

 

[Chris Craig]

But, how much will those bench players they lost, impact their record? Other than Barnes, who is MORE than replaced by Durant, they lost (in terms of minutes played) their 7th, 8th, 9th, 10, and 11th men. Bogut, who was 7th in minutes played was replaced with Zaza, who played over 500 minutes more. Speights was replaced by West, who played more minutes and averaged as many points and more rebounds. Ezeli missed 36 games and average 17 MPG when he did play - and they replaced him with an almost identical, younger player who went to the same college and posted almost identical numbers.

Ultimately, when you add one of the top 5 (arguably top 3) players in the game to a 73-win team you deserve a better grade than the Clippers. Who was the Clippers big acquisition? Did they acquire anyone NEAR Durant's talent. Hell no. Their two biggest off season acquisitions were Maurice Speights, a guy who played 11 MPG for GSW and Raymond Felton, who sucks. On top of that, they lost two players (Cole Aldrich and Jeff Green) who are better than anyone they added. Thye STILL don't have a decent starting SF, their already shitty bench got worse and their best players, who are injury prone, got another year older. How is their offseason as good as the team that landed Kevin Durant?

BNM

B-

 

[Chris Craig]

But, how much will those bench players they lost, impact their record? Other than Barnes, who is MORE than replaced by Durant, they lost (in terms of minutes played) their 7th, 8th, 9th, 10, and 11th men. Bogut, who was 7th in minutes played was replaced with Zaza, who played over 500 minutes more. Speights was replaced by West, who played more minutes and averaged as many points and more rebounds. Ezeli missed 36 games and average 17 MPG when he did play - and they replaced him with an almost identical, younger player who went to the same college and posted almost identical numbers.

Ultimately, when you add one of the top 5 (arguably top 3) players in the game to a 73-win team you deserve a better grade than the Clippers. Who was the Clippers big acquisition? Did they acquire anyone NEAR Durant's talent. Hell no. Their two biggest off season acquisitions were Maurice Speights, a guy who played 11 MPG for GSW and Raymond Felton, who sucks. On top of that, they lost two players (Cole Aldrich and Jeff Green) who are better than anyone they added. Thye STILL don't have a decent starting SF, their already shitty bench got worse and their best players, who are injury prone, got another year older. How is their offseason as good as the team that landed Kevin Durant?

BNM

Felton sucks, but he is better than Pringoni, I think Bass and Speights fit better with the Clippers offense then their last teams, and that they will more than make up for the loss of Green and Aldrich. The Clips also got Alan Anderson who will help them off the bench. While the Clippers bench didn't get better it didn't get worse. They get a B-

 

[Chris Craig]

Look, if the Warriors had done better this offseason regarding their bench, they would've got a better grade. I won't give them a shiny A+ just because they got Durant.

 

[riverman]

The Warriors are going to be a monster to play this season even with a weaker bench....the thing I disagree with that someone posted is that they will get rest...they are going to play huge minutes with their starters and 3 of them played in Rio this summer..I think it'll be tougher for them to put it together than they think with so many guys wanting the ball. One of four of their starting lineup is going to get left out in the cold...my guess would be Klay and he's capable of being a franchise player for many teams. I like our depth against them as it stands, but you'll have to shoot lights out to outscore them.

 

[THE HCP]

David West will be huge for the Warriors this season

 

[Boob-No-More]

Look, if the Warriors had done better this offseason regarding their bench, they would've got a better grade. I won't give them a shiny A+ just because they got Durant.

But Durant was THE best acquisition of ANY team this offseason. There wasn't any other player acquired in the draft, via free agency or via trade that will be better than Kevin Durant in 2016-17, 2017-18 or 2018-19. Durant isn't just light years ahead of anyone the Clippers picked up during the offseason, he's better than anyone on their entire roster.

Big deal, if Bass and Speights will fit better with the Clippers offense than their last teams, they aren't even in the same class as adding a player of Kevin Durant's caliber - and neither plays defense.

And Zaza doesn't suck. He averaged 8.6/9.5 in 26 MPG last year - compared to Bogut's 5.4/7.0. Zaza also had a higher PER and higher per36 averages, and most importantly was healthy enough to play over 2000 minutes compared to Bogut's 1471 minutes played. He will start at the 5 for GSW, with Green at the 4, Durant at the 3, Thompson at the 2 and Curry at the 1. Livingston and Iguodala will be their first two players off the bench and and far better than anyone the Clippers will have coming off their bench. GSW's starters are light years better than LAC's and in spite of their losses, their bench is STILL better than the Clipper's.

Hell, old man David West was beter last year than anyone the Clippers will have coming off their bench this year. Mo Speights is a one way, black hole of the player. When he gets the ball, he shoots, He does nothing else, including playing defense. Alan Anderson is a 34-year old shooting guard who played a total of 13 games on an injury depleted WAS team last year. Brandon Bass is 31 and put up 7/4 on a 23-win team. And Raymond Felton, is Raymond Felton. 'Nuff said. I still say that Cole Aldrich and Jeff Green are far better than any bench players the Clippers added. Aldrich is a great rim protector and a very efficient, if limited, scorer and Green is better than any SF they have on their current roster.

GSW = A for landing the best player to change teams since LeBron returned to CLE
LAC = D- for not addressing their weakness at starting SF and making an already shitty bench even worse.

BNM

 

[WarriorFan]

Iguodola will likely start with Green at center and Durant at the 4. They get a B-

Not a chance that happens. Even if that is their best lineup, why would you use it that many minutes. They went SBDS too much last year, I think they going back to just using it the last 6 minutes of the game.

And, honest question, where do you think they lost talent on their bench. They changed quite a few players but it seems to me like they got a similar or upgraded guy for everyone they lost. Is Barbosa really that much better than McCaw? Speights over West? Bogut is better than Zaza but is it that much? Then add in the potential of Kevon Looney. I see total of the non-Durant moves as a lateral one, maybe a slight downgrade at worst.

 

[riverman]

Not a chance that happens. Even if that is their best lineup, why would you use it that many minutes. They went SBDS too much last year, I think they going back to just using it the last 6 minutes of the game.

And, honest question, where do you think they lost talent on their bench. They changed quite a few players but it seems to me like they got a similar or upgraded guy for everyone they lost. Is Barbosa really that much better than McCaw? Speights over West? Bogut is better than Zaza but is it that much? Then add in the potential of Kevon Looney. I see total of the non-Durant moves as a lateral one, maybe a slight downgrade at worst.

We appreciate your leaving Festus off the list, but in answer...your bench didn't get better in my view and I thought West would be a game changer for the Spurs but in the end....he's just older and slower..Barbosa, Ezeli and Speights were more important than you give them credit for...Barbosa is old but the dude still has wheels.

 

[crandc]

While I pretty much agree with BNM, this is not a college (or high school) class. The grades don't mean a thing. Just a way to fill space until October. The real grades will be decided on the court. I mean, this is fun, but nothing to get het up about.

Yeah, right. This is S2.

 

[Boob-No-More]

While I pretty much agree with BNM, this is not a college (or high school) class. The grades don't mean a thing. Just a way to fill space until October. The real grades will be decided on the court. I mean, this is fun, but nothing to get het up about.

Yeah, right. This is S2.

Exactly! It's early September. No games are being played, not even the Olympics to distract us. So, we need to talk about something.

Difference of opinion, spirited debate and flame wars are the coal that makes this train roll and help line Denny's pockets with gold. Thankfully, all out flame wars are rare around here. We are generally respectful in our disagreements, like Chris Craig and I are here. Time and games played may show him to be right, or me to be right, or us both to be wrong. Who knows, it's all speculation at this time.

BNM