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I'm interested that you think Lillard is "definitely" a better player. Obviously I agree, but the national consensus after the playoffs (small sample alert!) was that Leonard might be a top 5 MVP candidate this year (and now higher since George is injured). As much as I love Lillard, I don't think he's sniffing that.

Playoffs change perceptions. Players on championship teams tend to be overrated and players also tend to look better in the Spurs' system (the Spurs as a franchise may be the greatest basketball machine I've ever seen). I think Leonard is probably a very slightly better version of Batum, but I think perceptions of Batum and Leonard would be flipped if Batum had been a Spur since he was drafted and Leonard had been a Blazer.

I think Leonard is a very good player, but nothing close to a top-tier MVP candidate. He does impact the game more ways than Lillard, because he's adept on the defensive end and Lillard isn't, but I think Lillard is an absolutely game-changing offensive player while Leonard is a talented cog in the Spurs' machine.
 
Hickson is 181
TRob hasn't been ranked yet

Does our system make hustle players look good?
 
Playoffs change perceptions. Players on championship teams tend to be overrated and players also tend to look better in the Spurs' system (the Spurs as a franchise may be the greatest basketball machine I've ever seen). I think Leonard is probably a very slightly better version of Batum, but I think perceptions of Batum and Leonard would be flipped if Batum had been a Spur since he was drafted and Leonard had been a Blazer.

I think Leonard is a very good player, but nothing close to a top-tier MVP candidate. He does impact the game more ways than Lillard, because he's adept on the defensive end and Lillard isn't, but I think Lillard is an absolutely game-changing offensive player while Leonard is a talented cog in the Spurs' machine.

Bingo. I would even say that if you were to swap Leonard/Nic right now the two would flip-flop their respective rankings with Nic climbing and Leonard falling.
Put Leonard on any other team in the league and he would only be 70-80% of what he is in the Spurs system. That's not to say that he's rightly ranked higher than Nic, because he IS in the Spurs system. But if you could maintain their pure talents and equalize everything else (team, coaching, etc) I think Nic would be the better player. I'm quite happy that we stole Nic from the Spurs during the draft but can't help think about how, by doing so, we really limited his personal growth.
 
Bingo. I would even say that if you were to swap Leonard/Nic right now the two would flip-flop their respective rankings with Nic climbing and Leonard falling.
Put Leonard on any other team in the league and he would only be 70-80% of what he is in the Spurs system. That's not to say that he's rightly ranked higher than Nic, because he IS in the Spurs system. But if you could maintain their pure talents and equalize everything else (team, coaching, etc) I think Nic would be the better player. I'm quite happy that we stole Nic from the Spurs during the draft but can't help think about how, by doing so, we really limited his personal growth.

I think this is false. Leonard was doing a lot of post up and ISO offense last season.

I really don't know why people discount Leonard. The kid is a stud. Pop and the Spurs system did help develop him, but leonard moving to any other team will still have the same bad ass player on it
 
Hickson is 181
TRob hasn't been ranked yet

Does our system make hustle players look good?

Yes, he has. Robinson is at 241, down from 204 last year:

Thomas Robinson
Portland Trail Blazers
PF | Age: 23 | Stats
2013 rank: #204
@Trobinson0

BNM
 
Yes, he has. Robinson is at 241, down from 204 last year:

Thomas Robinson
Portland Trail Blazers
PF | Age: 23 | Stats
2013 rank: #204
@Trobinson0

BNM

Wow I guess I completely over looked that because of how ludacris it is. I'd take Trob over 90% of the people ranked 200 or lower...How does he move down 37 spots after the season he had?
 
Wow I guess I completely over looked that because of how ludacris it is. I'd take Trob over 90% of the people ranked 200 or lower...How does he move down 37 spots after the season he had?

He had a small role on this team last season. It's hard to rank when you are getting chump minutes.
 
Blazers on the list.

403 babbitt
404 freeland
412 shavlik randolph
414 outlaw
424 chris johnson
435 claver
439 elliot williams
457 crabbe
461 thabeet
480 oden
495 dorsey
378 pendergraph
399 telfair
353 maynor
356 leonard
362 Withey
329 barton
342 james jones
343 rush
319 tolliver
323 darrell arthur
282 Jermaine
299 Cunningham
269 wright
241 robinson
242 webster
221 blake
222 mccollum
224 felton
229 gerald wallace
237 kaman
207 foye
181 hickson
193 miller
195 bayless
197 jack
198 mo
142 tobias harris
151 mills
 
Just wanted to elaborate a bit on my last post.

These rankings are a cumulative of what a couple of hundred of sports reporters think will happen this coming season. So while it's not necessarily a good gauge of the players actual value, it is a good representation of public perception.

With the ranking of RoLo, the public has really spoken and what they're saying is:
Our starters are awesome (all are 3.07th man or better)
Our bench still sucks (all are 7.37th or worse)
McCollum (7.4th man) is much better than Barton (11th man)

That's a huge gap!

Regardless of how excited I (and others around here) about the bench, the team won't get their due until the bench proves it on the court.
 
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Just wanted to elaborate a bit on my last post.

These rankings are a cumulative of what a couple of hundred of sports reporters think will happen this coming season. So while it's not necessarily a good gauge of the players actual value, it is a good representation of public perception.

With the ranking of RoLo, the public has really spoken and what they're saying is:
Our starters are awesome (all are 3.07th man or better)
Our bench still sucks (all are 7.37th or worse)
McCollum (7.4th man) is much better than Barton (11th man)

That's a huge gap!

Regardless of how excited I (and others around here) about the bench, the team won't get their due until the bench proves it on the court.

Nice breakdown. I actually agree with rolos rank. I think he can be higher though, just needs another season like that. Wes will be next, then Batum, lillArd, aldridge
 
Team Summary

1 Aldridge
2 Lillard
3 Batum :)
4 Wes 83 (2.8+1=3.8 vs. 4) :) :)
5 Lopez 92 (3.1+1=4.1 vs. 5) :) :)
===============
6 Blake 221 (7.4+1=8.4 vs. 6) :( :(
7 CJ 222 (7.4+1=8.4 vs. 7) :(
8 Kaman 237 (7.9+1=8.9 vs. 8) :)
9 Robinson 241 (8.0+1 = 9.0 vs. 9) :)
===============
10 Wright 269 (9.0+1=10.0 vs. 10) :)
11 Barton 329 (11.0+1=12.0 vs. 11) :(
12 Leonard 356 (11.9+1=12.9 vs. 12) :)

Portland Team Rankings also listed at ESPN
Forecast Panel has 210 members

Explanation of Smileys:
Suppose LBJ has the #1 overall ranking. 1/30 = .03 rounds to 0. Add 1 and get 1.0. Team Comparator: #1 on team, so it's 1.0 vs. 1.0 and he's the best #1 man in the league.

CJ had a ranking of 222, which divided by 30 is 7.4. Adding 1 gives 8.4. His comparator is as 7th man, so he should be within 7.0 and 7.9. If so, he gets a smiley. At 8.4, he's not so he gets an upside down smiley.

Blake's net ranking is 8.4 with a comparator of a 6th man. If he were between 6 and 6.9, he'd get a smiley indicating that he is indeed a 6th man. If he were between 7 and 7.9, he'd get an upside down smiley, but he's between 8 and 8.9 netting him TWO upside down smileys. He's really an 8th man, and an average one at that. It's not that there is something wrong with Blake, it's just that ESPN doesn't see him as a 6th man, or even a 7th man, but an 8th man. There is a void at those spots and you could argue that the younger players should be filling those spots but ESPN doesn't think they're ready.

Barton is the best 12th man in the league, but he's no 11th man so he gets an upside down smiley.
 
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Asik 71, Bogut 74, Varejo 76, all ranked higher than Lopez 92.

Not sure I agree (expecially with the Asik), but I am a homer. What does anyone else think?
 
I don't have any problem with Bogut being higher, and I really like RoLo's game. Bogut, when not sidelined on freak injuries, can be really good
 
Asik 71, Bogut 74, Varejo 76, all ranked higher than Lopez 92.

Not sure I agree (expecially with the Asik), but I am a homer. What does anyone else think?
I don't care where they rank individually in the popular perception. How do they fit and contribute synergistically with their team? I'll keep Lopez, thank you very much.

(See Sig)
 
Batum comes in at 52, about the average #2 man, but he's a #3 man on our team! It's clear that he's not overpaid at all by the consensus conventional wisdom.

1 Aldridge
2 Lillard
3 Batum 52 (1.7+1=2.7 vs. 3) :)
4 Wes 83 (2.8+1=3.8 vs. 4) :)
5 Lopez 92 (3.1+1=4.1 vs. 5) :)
===============
6 Blake 221 (7.4+1=8.4 vs. 6) :( :(
7 CJ 222 (7.4+1=8.4 vs. 7) :(
8 Kaman 237 (7.9+1=8.9 vs. 8)
9 Robinson 241 (8.0+1 = 9.0 vs. 9)
===============
10 Wright 269 (9.0+1=10.0 vs. 10)
11 Barton 329 (11.0+1=12.0 vs. 11)
12 Leonard 356 (11.9+1=12.9 vs. 12)

Portland Team Rankings also listed at ESPN
Forecast Panel has 210 members

Explanation of Smileys:
Suppose LBJ has the #1 overall ranking. 1/30 = .03 rounds to 0. Add 1 and get 1.0. Team Comparator: #1 on team, so it's 1.0 vs. 1.0 and he's the best #1 man in the league.

CJ had a ranking of 222, which divided by 30 is 7.4. Adding 1 gives 8.4. His comparator is as 7th man, so he should be within 7.0 and 7.9. If so, he gets a smiley. At 8.4, he's not so he gets an upside down smiley.

Blake's net ranking is 8.4 with a comparator of a 6th man. If he were between 6 and 6.9, he'd get a smiley indicating that he is indeed a 6th man. If he were between 7 and 7.9, he'd get an upside down smiley, but he's between 8 and 8.9 netting him TWO upside down smileys. He's really an 8th man, and an average one at that. It's not that there is something wrong with Blake, it's just that ESPN doesn't see him as a 6th man, or even a 7th man, but an 8th man. There is a void at those spots and you could argue that the younger players should be filling those spots but ESPN doesn't think they're ready.

Barton is the best 12th man in the league, but he's no 11th man so he gets an upside down smiley.
 
Batum comes in at 52, about the average #2 man, but he's a #3 man on our team! It's clear that he's not overpaid at all by the consensus conventional wisdom. .

He has never been overpaid - except in the minds of those completely out of touch with the reality of NBA player salaries. I remember back when Batum signed his contract he was the 49th highest paid player in the NBA and the year BEFORE he signed his contract he was the 46th highest scorer in the league. He was fair market value the day he signed his contract. Since that time, he has improved and salaries have increased substantially. At his current production and salary, the guy is a fucking bargain.

BNM
 
He has never been overpaid - except in the minds of those completely out of touch with the reality of NBA player salaries. I remember back when Batum signed his contract he was the 49th highest paid player in the NBA and the year BEFORE he signed his contract he was the 46th highest scorer in the league. He was fair market value the day he signed his contract. Since that time, he has improved and salaries have increased substantially. At his current production and salary, the guy is a fucking bargain.

BNM
Hear! Hear!

:cheers:
 
Lance Stevenson and his 36% shooting from the field just got ranked ahead of Batum. They are similar in age. Batum was able to get a much larger contract in a tougher offseason market. As a Pacer and Blazer fan, I am much happier with Nic.
 
Batum ahead of Deng. Some people said they'd rather have Deng last season. Also, Deron Williams below Batum. Remember when some people considered Williams was the best PG in the league? What happened?
 
Batum ahead of Deng. Some people said they'd rather have Deng last season. Also, Deron Williams below Batum. Remember when some people considered Williams was the best PG in the league? What happened?

Deng also got less in FA.

As Rasheed says "Money don't lie".
 
Batum ahead of Deng. Some people said they'd rather have Deng last season. Also, Deron Williams below Batum. Remember when some people considered Williams was the best PG in the league? What happened?

Deron Williams injuries played a big part, I also don't think he is in the greatest shape (from what I saw of him the past couple seasons).
 
He has never been overpaid - except in the minds of those completely out of touch with the reality of NBA player salaries. I remember back when Batum signed his contract he was the 49th highest paid player in the NBA and the year BEFORE he signed his contract he was the 46th highest scorer in the league. He was fair market value the day he signed his contract. Since that time, he has improved and salaries have increased substantially. At his current production and salary, the guy is a fucking bargain.

BNM

I was one that thought he was overpaid. I don't mind admitting that I was wrong....
 

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