Evan Turner and Al-Farouq Aminu

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in
Players ARE, who they are. Harkless & Aminu were inconsistent performers at their former stops before coming to Portland. Many in here were clamoring for RoCo for years before he finally was acquired. He was inconsistent in Philly, Minny, and Houston. What bolds well for acquiring Jerami Grant is he has been a consistent defender, and decent shooter at all stops. He was very good role player in OKC, and did his role in Denver at a high quality. Detroit he was a primary scorer, and did a pretty nice job putting up some really good stats on a nightly basis. As a 3rd/4th option he should bring quality nightly performances here in rip city. Before we get excited in the future about acquiring a player, we should ask our selves. Is he a consistent player? If not, pass, because he probably won't turn into what he's not. OG is a consistently, inconsistent player. Why do you think Ujiri went after Barnes.
 
Scalma said:
So could any other coach, it's not really saying much. And in the 4 years he had Chief and Moe on the wings, they only finished top 15 in defense once.
Click to expand...

So, your argument is that any NBA level coach could get a decent defensive production from a roster headed by 2 undersized, defensive deficient back-court with long wings and a good, if not especially mobile defensive center and any coach can create a multiple-years offensive juggernaut if they have Dame. That's possible, I would like to point out that when TS had these combinations (2018-2019, 2017-2018) he coached a team to have a top-10 net-rating in the league - I am not sure every NBA level coach can, but maybe. (He also had a top-ten net-rating in 2013-2014, but we had Wes at the time, so the 2, undersized, defensively deficient backcourt does not apply)

I think you are probably underselling TS a little bit, but we will not know for a while, I can't think off the top of my head of another team that had this roster construction and achieved as much as TS has, but I am sure there are some arguments that can be made. But, if the arguments are that TS is really what held Portland back, this year's roster with Dame + Ant and a roster with some defensive flexibility with GP2 (a lot more of a defensive all-nba team than Covington), Grant, Winslow and Hart - will give us an indication. You must be super pumped for this season, because you apparently believe every NBA coach can get a top-10 in the league net-rating with this kind of roster construction.

I hope you are right and that TS really was what held Portland back, but I suspect it was not. He is certainly not the best NBA coach ever, but he is more than capable at the NBA level - and is certainly not the dunce people seem to paint him as.
 
andalusian said:
So, your argument is that any NBA level coach could get a decent defensive production from a roster headed by 2 undersized, defensive deficient back-court with long wings and a good, if not especially mobile defensive center and any coach can create a multiple-years offensive juggernaut if they have Dame. That's possible, I would like to point out that when TS had these combinations (2018-2019, 2013-2014) he coached a team to have a top-10 net-rating in the league - I am not sure every NBA level coach can, but maybe.

I think you are probably underselling TS a little bit, but we will not know for a while, I can't think off the top of my head of another team that had this roster construction and achieved as much as TS has, but I am sure there are some arguments that can be made. But, if the arguments are that TS is really what held Portland back, this year's roster with Dame + Ant and a roster with some defensive flexibility with GP2 (a lot more of a defensive all-nba team than Covington), Grant, Winslow and Hart - will give us an indication. You must be super pumped for this season, because you apparently believe every NBA coach can get a top-10 in the league net-rating with this kind of roster construction.

I hope you are right and that TS really was what held Portland back, but I suspect it was not. He is certainly not the best NBA coach ever, but he is more than capable at the NBA level - and is certainly not the dunce people seem to paint him as.
Click to expand...

Forget defense, I think he also refused to evolve with the game offensively. Multiple players openly complained about how they were utilized under him, guys that aren't even known to air out their laundry in public (Powell)

And yeah I believe with the current roster AND a coach who values defense they can be a top 15 squad on that end, maybe even higher.
 
Scalma said:
Forget defense, I think he also refused to evolve with the game offensively. Multiple players openly complained about how they were utilized under him, guys that aren't even known to air out their laundry in public (Powell)
Click to expand...

You are now moving the discussion from what I wrote. I have made no claims about what he or did not do to players, all I said is that given a proper roster, he could coach defense, which the numbers prove.

For the record, I am not sure what Powell thought could be done, he played out of position because the roster had Dame and CJ and with all due respect to Powell, he is certainly not one you should favor on offense over either one of them. I mean, do you think he would have been happier with Terry if he was coming of the bench to backup CJ? This is again, an indication of a job Terry had to do given the poor roster he got, it is not an indication of how good/bad Terry is.

Arguments about his unwillingness to adjust, I am accepting. Arguments about use on offense given the roster construction? Not so much, frankly. Portland was elite on offense with Powell under Terry.

And yeah I believe with the current roster AND a coach who values defense they can be a top 15 squad on that end, maybe even higher.
Click to expand...

Top 15 on defense while being elite on offense (as in top 5, often top 3 or 2). I sure hope so, because this is our roster this year - and if we can replicate what Terry did with this kind of roster in 2017-2018 (49 wins) or 2018-2019 (53 wins), we are going to kick ass this year.
 
Aminu was a very good free agent addition and role player for the Blazers on a reasonable contract. Yes it would've been ideal to have an average starting forward ahead of him, but that wasn't his fault or a cause of the team acquiring him. Aminu would've been great as just a bench player and emergency starter. Instead he was often filling the role as one of the primary forwards.

If Evan Turner was signed for a contract similar to Boston he would've been fine as a 7th man off the bench. He earner 3.3 and 3.4 million over two years in Boston. For some delusional reason Neil gave him a $70 million contract, when there were no reports of him getting anything close to that level. His friends yelled at him to accept the offer ASAP as it was an insane amount. Traded away to the Twolves in 2019 and out of a job within a year.

Neil deserved to be fired for that 2016 offseason.
 
riverman said:
Evan Turner was hired as an assistant coach with the Celtics by Brad Stevens....he has a really high basketball IQ and was just a poor fit with Stotts 3 pt shooting offense..his defense was really good though....he wasn't a scorer. ET never really fit that team but without him they wouldn't have made the WCF
Click to expand...

You know i watched that team a number of times live at games in the Moda. There is no question there is something to this. That team played and responded to things he did and said in a way like no other player on the court.
 
Tince said:
I'm curious how you determine when the player gets credit for their own success/failure and when the coach is responsible.
Click to expand...
I like the way you pose your questions. I seems to me that Stotts and Dame were both working to the same end. I'm pretty sure Dame would say Stotts had a bunch to do with all the success the team had.
 
I feel like we have been down this road before….

The death-knell for Stotts was the league shifting towards the three point shot. Our three point defense was god awful. As the number of attempted threes around the league grew and grew, our defensive rating plummeted.

Largely because of his scheme and because Dame and CJ were horrible on defense. And Terry has nobody to blame but himself. He coached both those players since they were rookies and he never held them accountable for poor defense.

Terry pretty much let you do whatever you wanted as long as you were helping him continue to get paid.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I feel like we have been down this road before….

The death-knell for Stotts was the league shifting towards the three point shot. Our three point defense was god awful. As the number of attempted threes around the league grew and grew, our defensive rating plummeted.

Largely because of his scheme and because Dame and CJ were horrible on defense. And Terry has nobody to blame but himself. He coached both those players since they were rookies and he never held them accountable for poor defense.

Terry pretty much let you do whatever you wanted as long as you were helping him continue to get paid.
Click to expand...
So much about the statement is wrong i don't know where to start?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Feel free.
Click to expand...
I really won't have time and don't want to get into a back and forth.
But my first thought is the three point shot is what made Stotts. He was pretty much the architect of the three when he was in Dallas and he ran with it here. He showed he knew how to defend it when he had players and a healthy center other than Whiteside or Kanter.
Pretty sure he has the roster construction and the GM running the show to blame.
As far as coaching is concerned you can only coach the talent you have. Dame and CJ were not going to become defensive players by coaching. They were going to be players that scored the ball.
Terry coached them to their strengths. Saying he just let them do what they wanted in my opinion is a cop out.

There i feel free.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
But my first thought is the three point shot is what made Stotts. He was pretty much the architect of the three when he was in Dallas and he ran with it here.
Click to expand...

Which makes it all the more sad that he was so horrible at defending it....... but lol at him being the architect of the three. Come on dude.

Check out the stats year by year. When Stotts first took over, the league average for 3s attempted per game was 20. There was only 12 teams attempting 20 or more 3s per game. We were the 3rd best team at defending the three at the time.

By the time Stotts left in 2020-2021, the league average for attempts per game was 34.6. In a span of 10 years, the league was attempting almost 15 more threes per game. All 32 teams were averaging over 20 threes per game. In Stotts final three years as coach, we were the 20th, 29th, and 20th best at defending the three. In his final year, teams were hitting 37% of their threes against us.

2021-2022:
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 28 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted per game 41.3
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game 32
  • League average for 3s attempted: 35.2
  • Blazers with the worst opponent eFG% in the league
  • Opponent three point percentage: 37.1% (league rank 28)

2020-2021
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 28 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 43 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game 32
  • League average for 3s attempted: 34.6
  • Blazers with the 22nd best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 37.2% (league rank 20)

2019-2020
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 28 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 45 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 32
  • League average for 3s attempted: 34.1
  • Blazers with the 16th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 38.3% (league rank 29)

2018-2019
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 25 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 45.4 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 32
  • League average for 3s attempted: 32
  • Blazers with the 18th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 35.9% (league rank 20)

2017-2018
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 22 per game,
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 42.3 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 32
  • League average for 3s attempted: 29
  • Blazers with the 27th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 36.4% (league rank 16)

2016-2017
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 21 per game,
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 40.3 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 32
  • League average for 3s attempted: 27
  • Blazers with the 20th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 37% (league rank 27)

2015-2016
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 15.6 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 31.6 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 24
  • League average for 3s attempted: 24.1
  • Blazers with the 16th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 37.1% (league rank 26)

2014-2015
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 14.9 per game,
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 32.7 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 19
  • League average for 3s attempted: 22.4
  • Blazers with the 28th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 33.8% (league rank 6)

2013-2014
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 14 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted per game 26.6 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 20
  • League average for 3s attempted: 21.5
  • Blazers with the 25th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 35.5% (league rank 11)

2012-2013
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 13.5 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 28.9 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 12
  • League average for 3s attempted: 20
  • Blazers with the 5th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 34% (league rank 3)

2011-2012
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 11.8 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 27 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 12
  • League average for 3s attempted: 18.4
  • Blazers with the 6th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 36.3% (league rank 25)

2010-2011
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 11.3 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 25.6 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 9
  • League average for 3s attempted: 18
  • Blazers with the 9th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 36.7% (league rank 23)
 
Natebishop3 said:
Which makes it all the more sad that he was so horrible at defending it....... but lol at him being the architect of the three. Come on dude.

Check out the stats year by year. When Stotts first took over, the league average for 3s attempted per game was 20. There was only 12 teams attempting 20 or more 3s per game. We were the 3rd best team at defending the three at the time.

By the time Stotts left in 2020-2021, the league average for attempts per game was 34.6. In a span of 10 years, the league was attempting almost 15 more threes per game. All 32 teams were averaging over 20 threes per game. In Stotts final three years as coach, we were the 20th, 29th, and 20th best at defending the three. In his final year, teams were hitting 37% of their threes against us.

2021-2022:
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 28 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted per game 41.3
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game 32
  • League average for 3s attempted: 35.2
  • Blazers with the worst opponent eFG% in the league
  • Opponent three point percentage: 37.1% (league rank 28)

2020-2021
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 28 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 43 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game 32
  • League average for 3s attempted: 34.6
  • Blazers with the 22nd best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 37.2% (league rank 20)

2019-2020
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 28 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 45 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 32
  • League average for 3s attempted: 34.1
  • Blazers with the 16th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 38.3% (league rank 29)

2018-2019
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 25 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 45.4 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 32
  • League average for 3s attempted: 32
  • Blazers with the 18th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 35.9% (league rank 20)

2017-2018
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 22 per game,
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 42.3 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 32
  • League average for 3s attempted: 29
  • Blazers with the 27th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 36.4% (league rank 16)

2016-2017
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 21 per game,
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 40.3 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 32
  • League average for 3s attempted: 27
  • Blazers with the 20th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 37% (league rank 27)

2015-2016
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 15.6 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 31.6 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 24
  • League average for 3s attempted: 24.1
  • Blazers with the 16th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 37.1% (league rank 26)

2014-2015
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 14.9 per game,
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 32.7 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 19
  • League average for 3s attempted: 22.4
  • Blazers with the 28th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 33.8% (league rank 6)

2013-2014
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 14 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted per game 26.6 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 20
  • League average for 3s attempted: 21.5
  • Blazers with the 25th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 35.5% (league rank 11)

2012-2013
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 13.5 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 28.9 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 12
  • League average for 3s attempted: 20
  • Blazers with the 5th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 34% (league rank 3)

2011-2012
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 11.8 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 27 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 12
  • League average for 3s attempted: 18.4
  • Blazers with the 6th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 36.3% (league rank 25)

2010-2011
  • Lowest number of threes attempted was 11.3 per game
  • Highest number of threes attempted was 25.6 per game.
  • Number of teams above 20 attempts per game was 9
  • League average for 3s attempted: 18
  • Blazers with the 9th best opponent eFG%
  • Opponent three point percentage: 36.7% (league rank 23)
Click to expand...
Oh boy. Stats!
I watched him pick apart Nate when they used Kidd to shoot threes and win a Championship.
I don’t need stats.
Go talk to people who know from that period. Stotts was one of the very first to use the three point shot the way it’s used today.
Next defending it takes defenders like I said. He didn’t have them.
 
Natebishop3 said:
What a lazy response. Kinda like our lazy ass defense.
Click to expand...
Truth is a bunch of words doesn’t make a response better.
Facts are facts. Stotts very seldom had players that were great defenders.
You cannot coach talent.

by the way. Too long Didn’t Read TLDR
Is a thing.
 
riverman said:
Stotts was given 179 different players to try and assemble a core...still made the playoffs patching rosters together...at times with injuries using 20 different starting lineups through one season to try to find one that clicked.....it was the roster period...and injuries to the guys who could fill those roles. At any rate, that chapter is in the books. He did manage to have a top ten defense when he had a talented starting lineup...then Wes went down. Nobody was going to look good with Hezonja and Tolliver playing big minutes
Click to expand...

The Blazers would've been better playing Nas those minutes - but the one in charge of those minutes did not play him those minutes.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
Truth is a bunch of words doesn’t make a response better.
Facts are facts. Stotts very seldom had players that were great defenders.
You cannot coach talent.

by the way. Too long Didn’t Read TLDR
Is a thing.
Click to expand...

Three point defense is about effort. We had none. That's on the coach.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
by the way. Too long Didn’t Read TLDR
Is a thing.
Click to expand...

Which one was too long for you...

Natebishop3 said:
Which makes it all the more sad that he was so horrible at defending it....... but lol at him being the architect of the three. Come on dude.

Check out the stats year by year. When Stotts first took over, the league average for 3s attempted per game was 20. There was only 12 teams attempting 20 or more 3s per game. We were the 3rd best team at defending the three at the time.

By the time Stotts left in 2020-2021, the league average for attempts per game was 34.6. In a span of 10 years, the league was attempting almost 15 more threes per game. All 32 teams were averaging over 20 threes per game. In Stotts final three years as coach, we were the 20th, 29th, and 20th best at defending the three. In his final year, teams were hitting 37% of their threes against us.
Click to expand...

Or was it...

Natebishop3 said:
What a lazy response. Kinda like our lazy ass defense.
Click to expand...

Like I said.... Lazy.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Which one was too long for you...



Or was it...



Like I said.... Lazy.
Click to expand...
The wordiest poster on the forum with by far the most posts is asking which post and purposely omitting the 10 paragraph post with massive amounts of defensive stats which actually mean nothing at all to the relevance of the conversation at hand.
Is saying a definitive direct comment is lazy.
Okay.
We disagree.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
The wordiest poster on the forum with by far the most posts is asking which post and purposely omitting the 10 paragraph post with massive amounts of defensive stats which actually mean nothing at all to the relevance of the conversation at hand.
Is saying a definitive direct comment is lazy.
Okay.
We disagree.
Click to expand...

LOL three lines... which was the only actual writing, was a summary of the stats. I posted the stats so you could reference them if you like.

Again..... lazy.
 
Natebishop3 said:
LOL three lines... which was the only actual writing, was a summary of the stats. I posted the stats so you could reference them if you like.

Again..... lazy.
Click to expand...
Well at least you are starting to shorten up your responses and getting to your point in a line or two.
Good on ya.
 
Fairly-Hard said:
I like the way you pose your questions. I seems to me that Stotts and Dame were both working to the same end. I'm pretty sure Dame would say Stotts had a bunch to do with all the success the team had.
Click to expand...

I agree Dame would say that.

I certainly have my stance on the impact of coaching. While many don't agree with it, I try very hard to apply it equally when things good or bad. I'm always amazed how many fans (not just Blazer fans) think coaches can basically only make things worse. If that were the case, certainly someone smarter than me would've figured that out and simply got rid of coaches all together.

I think coaching makes a small impact. Their salary suggests this to be true as well.
 
Tince said:
I agree Dame would say that.

I certainly have my stance on the impact of coaching. While many don't agree with it, I try very hard to apply it equally when things good or bad. I'm always amazed how many fans (not just Blazer fans) think coaches can basically only make things worse. If that were the case, certainly someone smarter than me would've figured that out and simply got rid of coaches all together.

I think coaching makes a small impact. Their salary suggests this to be true as well.
Click to expand...
I believe it’s a much bigger impact than most understand. It’s more than the plays and schemes. It’s about holding together a group and steering the ship. Knowing your players and dealing with issues never discussed or seen in the media.
They are 18-19 years old mostly when they start. How many times do you see an 18 year old with his head on straight?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top