Evidence that "Atheism" is not a sound belief (1 Viewer)

[magnifier661]

Yeah right. here's a smiley. It created the universe. I have given you proof, you are just ignoring the fact....ghoti created the universe.


Atheism is the knowledge that god is fiction. Only proof of god's existence can alter that fact. You've offered no proof or even token evidence that god is real.

So far all you've done is claim he couldn't have created life out of nothing, which is what atheists say.

You have not even laid out anything to support your premise, so there's really nothing here to debate.

Actually there is. You cannot have something out of nothing so it's infinite; but then if the big bang is the most logical answer of the creation of the universe; then law 2 contradicts the big bang. And life must create life; which again proves of a designer. I think the debate is over; but you aren't on the winning side.

 

[Denny Crane]

Actually there is. You cannot have something out of nothing so it's infinite; but then if the big bang is the most logical answer of the creation of the universe; then law 2 contradicts the big bang. And life must create life; which again proves of a designer. I think the debate is over; but you aren't on the winning side.

Law 2 is not contradicted by the big bang. And nobody with a clue agrees that "life must create life."

 

[magnifier661]

crowTrobot already pointed out the fallacy of your understanding and claims about the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

I'll quote from your own link:

The second law of thermodynamics is an expression of the tendency that over time, differences in temperature, pressure, and chemical potential equilibrate in an isolated physical system.

Closed system? And which system is that? This universe?

 

[Denny Crane]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamic_system
read and learn

 

[magnifier661]

Law 2 is not contradicted by the big bang. And nobody with a clue agrees that "life must create life."

Believe! Exactly! Now your catching on. Like I said. Show me evidence that life can be created without life. I can say millions more people believe god exists. That just isn't good enough.

 

[magnifier661]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_system
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamic_system
read and learn

Got the game on, but I will read the rest of the evidence.

 

[MARIS61]

well, by your definition of the term it actually does. "strong" atheism, which is your claim that you have knowledge that no god exists, does bring a burden of proof.

I'm not making a claim. I know god is a fictional character. I know pigs don't fly. I know I love my wife.

There's no burden of proof on me to convince others of the truth. Many people can't handle the truth. Maybe they're better off living a lie.

I know Lisa Simpson is a fictional character or in the sense that I know Harry Potter is a fictional character.

There is no evidence to suggest any one of the 3 ever existed in real life.

If mags claims Lisa Simpson created the Earth in 7 days that puts the burden on me to prove it's nonsense? I don't think so.

 

[MadeFromDust]

Law 2 is not contradicted by the big bang. And nobody with a clue agrees that "life must create life."

Ok God, explain step-by-step how life comes from non-life, the rest of us 7 billion would like in on the secret. Oh, and "it had to have happened somehow over millions and billions of years" is not an answer

 

[Denny Crane]

Believe! Exactly! Now your catching on. Like I said. Show me evidence that life can be created without life. I can say millions more people believe god exists. That just isn't good enough.

First of all, there is no unequivocal definition of life. My definition would be DNA, since without it there is no life.

Second, amino acids have been shown to form readily in all sorts of environments. They've even created them in a laboratory using $10 worth of parts.

Finally, amino acids are the building blocks of proteins that make up DNA.

So like I said in the other thread, over 200M years, the various combinations and permutations of these building blocks in various environments (the environment changed a lot over those 200M years as the earth cooled) eventually made DNA and the first cell.

 

[MadeFromDust]

First of all, there is no unequivocal definition of life. My definition would be DNA, since without it there is no life.

Second, amino acids have been shown to form readily in all sorts of environments. They've even created them in a laboratory using $10 worth of parts.

Finally, amino acids are the building blocks of proteins that make up DNA.

So like I said in the other thread, over 200M years, the various combinations and permutations of these building blocks in various environments (the environment changed a lot over those 200M years as the earth cooled) eventually made DNA and the first cell.

The blind faith you operate on is truly astonishing, like almost admirable. I consider myself a man of faith but you trump me in that department, no doubt about it. Guess I don't have enough faith to be an atheist ;(

 

[Denny Crane]

The blind faith you operate on is truly astonishing, like almost admirable. I consider myself a man of faith but you trump me in that department, no doubt about it. Guess I don't have enough faith to be an atheist ;(

What blind faith? Faith in a chemistry experiment that can be repeated in a high school chemistry lab?

 

[MadeFromDust]

What blind faith? Faith in a chemistry experiment that can be repeated in a high school chemistry lab?

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[MARIS61]

Matter/energy has infinitely been present in some form? If so, to me, that would be a quantum leap in logic.

We know it exists.

There is nothing to suggest it ever did not exist, nor that it will ever cease to exist.

Logic suggests it has always existed and always will exist.

 

[ABM]

Logic suggests it has always existed and always will exist.

....and somehow morphed into all humanity.

I'll stick with the God version. Makes far more logical sense.

 

[crowTrobot]

Matter/energy has infinitely been present in some form? If so, to me, that would be a quantum leap in logic.

given the first law it seems at least a logical possibility that what exists has "always" existed in some sense.

 

[ABM]

given the first law it seems at least a logical possibility that what exists has "always" existed in some sense.

Personally, I believe in the Big Bang theory: God spoke and, BANG, it came into existence.

 

[crowTrobot]

I'm not making a claim. I know god is a fictional character.

this thread isn't specifically about the god of the bible. if it were i'd agree with you.

you can't know with certainty that the origin of the universe did not involve some form of design. for all we know the universe itself may be intelligent in some sense that we aren't currently capable of understanding.

 

[magnifier661]

Sorry so far I still haven't seen any evidence to support I am wrong on my three points.

Still looking for evidence that supports you can create life without life.

I haven't seen a good evidence on existence from something from nothing.

I haven't seen evidence that supports that the universe cannot regress as it expands.

 

[magnifier661]

this thread isn't specifically about the god of the bible. if it were i'd agree with you.

you can't know with certainty that the origin of the universe did not involve some form of design. for all we know the universe itself may be intelligent in some sense that we aren't currently capable of understanding.

Rep'd sorry my opinion on you was off. Im sorry....

 

[magnifier661]

I'm not making a claim. I know god is a fictional character. I know pigs don't fly. I know I love my wife.

There's no burden of proof on me to convince others of the truth. Many people can't handle the truth. Maybe they're better off living a lie.
any one of the 3 ever existed in real life.

sounds like faith to me. Not very logical.

 

[MARIS61]

this thread isn't specifically about the god of the bible. if it were i'd agree with you.

you can't know with certainty that the origin of the universe did not involve some form of design. for all we know the universe itself may be intelligent in some sense that we aren't currently capable of understanding.

I don't get specific with gods. I use the term generically to mean any mythical super-being people hold above humanity.

This thread, by saying atheism is not "sound", is proclaiming that god definitely exists.

And this thread is not about our tiny universe, which is but a speck in an infinite cosmos. It's method of origin is for another thread.

But what you understand and what I understand are vastly different as most understanding comes from our experiences and sensory input throughout our lives. Most of what I understand comes from personal observation and I'm sure it's the same for most people.


This explains atheism pretty well I think, and exposes the lie that atheists are "evil".

What is Atheism?
Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity, which implies that nothing exists but natural phenomena (matter), that thought is a property or function of matter, and that death irreversibly and totally terminates individual organic units. This definition means that there are no forces, phenomena, or entities which exist outside of or apart from physical nature, or which transcend nature, or are “super” natural, nor can there be. Humankind is on its own.

The following definition of atheism was given to the Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Murray v. Curlett, 374 U.S. 203, 83 S. Ct. 1560, 10 L.Ed.2d (MD, 1963), to remove reverential Bible reading and oral unison recitation of the Lord's Prayer in the public schools:

“Your petitioners are atheists and they define their beliefs as follows. An atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An atheist believes that heaven is something for which we should work now – here on earth for all men together to enjoy.

An atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he must find in himself the inner conviction and strength to meet life, to grapple with it, to subdue it, and enjoy it.

An atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a life of fulfillment.

He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather than to know a god. An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He wants man to understand and love man.

He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a hereafter.

He believes that we are our brother's keepers and are keepers of our own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the time is now.”

 

[MARIS61]

Still looking for evidence that supports you can create life without life.

I haven't seen a good evidence on existence from something from nothing.

I haven't seen evidence that supports that the universe cannot regress as it expands.

And I haven't seen you produce any reason to doubt atheism.

SHOW ME THE MAGIC 7!

 

[ABM]

And I haven't seen you produce any reason to doubt atheism.

SHOW ME THE MAGIC 7!

The mere fact that you're even asking (demanding?) is a step in the right direction, grasshopper.

 

[TripTango]

Sorry so far I still haven't seen any evidence to support I am wrong on my three points.

Still looking for evidence that supports you can create life without life.

I haven't seen a good evidence on existence from something from nothing.

I haven't seen evidence that supports that the universe cannot regress as it expands.

I honestly don't mean this to be rude, Mags, but in terms of the physics you are citing, you don't know enough to know how little you know. The reasons your applications of the laws of thermodynamics are flawed have been discussed ad nauseum, but you are either not recognizing those reasons or you are choosing to ignore them. Wikipedia is insufficient. Links to YouTube are insufficient. You'll need to study -- actually study -- those laws (ideally in the classroom with the help of a competent instructor) to understand what they assert, where they can be applied, and where their limitations lie.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT CALLING YOU STUPID, AND I AM NOT CLAIMING TO HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. I am only pointing out that the way you are trying to use these so-called laws is inappropriate and invalid from a physics standpoint.

 

[magnifier661]

And I haven't seen you produce any reason to doubt atheism.

SHOW ME THE MAGIC 7!

Easy.... The universe!

Atheist cannot prove god doesnt exists and I have damn good reason how something actually existed without existence. I see a universe that has purpose. Purpose = design. And if you think that the universe can expand and actually become more organized; doesn't happen. It's not scientific! You are going against everything pure in science.

You are tossing out faith. Faith that god doesn't exist.

 

[magnifier661]

I honestly don't mean this to be rude, Mags, but in terms of the physics you are citing, you don't know enough to know how little you know. The reasons your applications of the laws of thermodynamics are flawed have been discussed ad nauseum, but you are either not recognizing those reasons or you are choosing to ignore them. Wikipedia is insufficient. Links to YouTube are insufficient. You'll need to study -- actually study -- those laws (ideally in the classroom with the help of a competent instructor) to understand what they assert, where they can be applied, and where their limitations lie.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT CALLING YOU STUPID, AND I AM NOT CLAIMING TO HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS. I am only pointing out that the way you are trying to use these so-called laws is inappropriate and invalid from a physics standpoint.

Then explain it please. I want to see evidence. And I don't think you think I'm stupid.

 

[MARIS61]

Easy.... The universe!

Atheist cannot prove god doesnt exists and I have damn good reason how something actually existed without existence. I see a universe that has purpose. Purpose = design. And if you think that the universe can expand and actually become more organized; doesn't happen. It's not scientific! You are going against everything pure in science.

You are tossing out faith. Faith that god doesn't exist.

Reading this post made me think of this:

[video=youtube;j7GJcKuVGm8]

 

[magnifier661]

Reading this post made me think of this:

[video=youtube;j7GJcKuVGm8]

Of course... Had to toss out "youtube" clips. Good argument. Unless of course, that is you as the witch. Hahahaha

 

[TripTango]

Then explain it please. I want to see evidence. And I don't think you think I'm stupid.

You are the one claiming evidence of unsound beliefs in the original post of this thread, and several posters here have shown you why it is simply not good evidence.

 

[TripTango]

And if you think that the universe can expand and actually become more organized; doesn't happen. It's not scientific! You are going against everything pure in science.

Again, no. I'm not sure exactly what you believe science is, but this ain't it.