Exclusive Explaining the Problem Facing the NBA That No One Really Understands

[Denny Crane]

4 sir...... One for Blazers Broadcasting, 2 for HBO Boxing and 1 for the Olympics last summer. Why do ask FAMS?

You won them in a poker game?

(what do you know about how TV works?)

 

[THE HCP]

You won them in a poker game?

(what do you know about how TV works?)

I have friends that work on the Poker circuit for ESPN and said it's a blast to work.

 

[blazerboy30]

The OP is nothing but guessing, speculation and made-up numbers being cast as fact, due to personal frustration.

If you want to be taken seriously, you can't use your personal observation and anecdotal evidence as the basis and "facts" for your argument.

 

[riverman]

I'm saying that's not the case, because the NBA shits on their die-hard fans in favor of casual fans.

I think everyone understands what you said Bones.....you said you can't argue explain to those who don't comprehend your posts...I think that's what you should look into.......and I think you vastly underestimate the popularity of the NBA overseas...America is not as big as you may think...These guys sell a lot of jerseys and shoes overseas.....and you weigh that against season ticket holders here......news flash....Beyoncé will still be a season ticket holder...So will Spike Lee

 

[BonesJones]

I think everyone understands what you said Bones.....you said you can't argue explain to those who don't comprehend your posts...I think that's what you should look into.......and I think you vastly underestimate the popularity of the NBA overseas...America is not as big as you may think...These guys sell a lot of jerseys and shoes overseas.....and you weigh that against season ticket holders here......news flash....Beyoncé will still be a season ticket holder...So will Spike Lee

And some season ticket holders will get tired of shelling money out in a product that the NBA acts like doesn't matter.

 

[BonesJones]

The OP is nothing but guessing, speculation and made-up numbers being cast as fact, due to personal frustration.

If you want to be taken seriously, you can't use your personal observation and anecdotal evidence as the basis and "facts" for your argument.

I never called it a fact, I strongly believe that it will happen though. What numbers did I make up? Please show me where.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

I think companies will continue to spend more $$ advertising during sports broadcasts because that's one of the few things people still consistently watch live. Almost everything else gets DVR'd and you can skip the commercials.

 

[Minstrel]

And some season ticket holders will get tired of shelling money out in a product that the NBA acts like doesn't matter.

Some will, but the default assumption (until there are facts/numbers to show otherwise) is that there will be others to buy up their season tickets. Right now, I haven't seen any evidence that things are headed the direction you're suggesting and you haven't presented any--you've really just enumerated your own grievances with the NBA and essentially made the argument that, "If I feel this way, tons of similarly hardcore fans in small markets feel that way." But why are you the bellwether?

 

[BonesJones]

The fact they are called "die hard" fans mean they aren't going anywhere my man. Causual fans don't care and might bounce if they are happy with the product.....thus the title of "casual fans" Just because you made a list of what upsets you about the league doesn't mean the NBA is "fucking up". I have quite a few people here in my neighborhood that probably only watch the NBA because they pump up players like LeBron. And I have had some tell me they are looking forward to seeing if this Ball kid can stand up to the hype. They wouldn't ever watch a Laker game before, now they will. Thats what promoting certain players and matchups do....... it's to attract the "casual fan". The "die-hard fan" is going to watch regardless right?
And once again, calling me a "nut" because I don't agree with your doomsday outlook for a thriving business is just funny to me. Grow up son. Post your thoughts and move along. Don't get hyped up just because somebody doesn't see eye to eye with you.

I didn't get hyped up, I just said you're nut understanding what I'm writing. If you want to take offense to that but claim I'm the one getting worked up, that's fine. I never called you a nut. You're an.NBA fanboy. Didn't say it as it as an insult either.
The die-hard fan usually watched regardless, but based on a combination of things including myself, people I talked to, as well as stuff I've seen on the internet, die-hard fans are quickly growing tired of the NBAs bullshit. Casual fans are the ones who will watch regardless, because if the hype for individual players that would still be there without the NBA trying extremely hard to drive out because of social media.

Btw, "Grow up, son" is more disrespectful than anything I said so don't sit here and say that while playing the victim card at the same time.

 

[blazerboy30]

I never called it a fact, I strongly believe that it will happen though. What numbers did I make up? Please show me where.

Here's just one example:

" While the NBA makes more money off of bigger markets, they're less important, as those markets have more casual fans that will never lose interest in the NBA."

This may or may not be true, but you have nothing to back up this statement. Most of your claims fall in this same category.

Additionally, you've never even defined what makes a "hardcore" fan.

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

A friend who works at the Trail Blazers said season tickets are selling better than ever. And that's after having a fairly disappointing season.

 

[BBert]

Some of you are too hung up on proving every single argument empirically. The OP is an opinion piece. Bones presented arguments for his positions that he believes to be logical. Some of the counter-arguments presented do the same. It's something to talk about and debate using observation, logic and reasoning, and yes, opinion. No need to make it personal, Comrades!

 

[BonesJones]

Some will, but the default assumption (until there are facts/numbers to show otherwise) is that there will be others to buy up their season tickets. Right now, I haven't seen any evidence that things are headed the direction you're suggesting and you haven't presented any--you've really just enumerated your own grievances with the NBA and essentially made the argument that, "If I feel this way, tons of similarly hardcore fans in small markets feel that way." But why are you the bellwether?

Most stadiums don't full all the way up every night, so losing a season ticket holder means losing ticket sales somewhere.

I'm not going to stop going to games, so I'm not one of the people I'm talking about. I've heard it more lately; talk from die-hard fans who are tired of the NBAs BS.

It's also the combination of things that I said, that I believe other fans will get tired of. I'm also not saying the NBA will combust, I'm saying that I think the NBA will be making less money a few years from now than presently because of these factors.

 

[BBert]

A friend who works at the Trail Blazers said season tickets are selling better than ever. And that's after having a fairly disappointing season.

The Nurk Effect!!

Seriously though, I think the Blazers future is pretty bright. I think even the 'casual' ticket buying fans are buying into that. I'd love to have season tickets if I had the money and the time.

 

[BonesJones]

A friend who works at the Trail Blazers said season tickets are selling better than ever. And that's after having a fairly disappointing season.

Yeah, I don't expect to see a turnaround yet. After 5 straight GSW championships and the continued bullshit the NBA does, that's when it'll turn around. I believe the NBA is peaking right now.

 

[BBert]

If the GSW were the Blazers, they'd have two franchise player season ending injuries next season. Not that I'm wishing our curse on anyone

 

[BonesJones]

Here's just one example:

" While the NBA makes more money off of bigger markets, they're less important, as those markets have more casual fans that will never lose interest in the NBA."

This may or may not be true, but you have nothing to back up this statement. Most of your claims fall in this same category.

Additionally, you've never even defined what makes a "hardcore" fan.

Hardcore fans: Ones who spend a lot of money on tickets and great every year as well as watches almost every game they can on TV.

The big markets don't have more seats in the stadium, the big markets have a richer TV deal. I know more casual Laker fans than Blazer fans. These are the type of people who don't buy gear or tickets, follow the game on social media, etc.

The bigger markets have larger fanbases. I guess there could be an equal ratio of casual:diehard, but they have such sheet numbers than those markets will never lose money based off ticket sales, which is why they're more stable and should be less imperative to satisfy.

 

[Minstrel]

Yeah, I don't expect to see a turnaround yet. After 5 straight GSW championships and the continued bullshit the NBA does, that's when it'll turn around. I believe the NBA is peaking right now.

After 5 straight Warriors titles, the Warriors will be on the downslope and a new era of competitiveness will be dawning. I don't think that's when people will leave. If competitiveness were really the problem, this is when I'd expect people to leave--staring down the barrel of at least a few more years of Warriors dominance.

As I've said in other threads, though, and alluded to in my first post, I don't believe "competitiveness" is what drives league success.

 

[riverman]

Some of you are too hung up on proving every single argument empirically. The OP is an opinion piece. Bones presented arguments for his positions that he believes to be logical. Some of the counter-arguments presented do the same. It's something to talk about and debate using observation, logic and reasoning, and yes, opinion. No need to make it personal, Comrades!

could merge this thread with the one that says...it's fucking hot outside....hydrate people!!

 

[riverman]

I stuck around when the Blazers sucked.....but I still think Die Hard was a mediocre movie

 

[BBert]

Warriors ain't going to win 5 straight titles. Something will happen. Dame has the right attitude about it: build the team to win now; play to win now. Anything can happen. And it will.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I posted this in another thread, but thought it deserved it's own thread. I'm debating the impact of casual fans compared to die-hard fans, and how the NBA is going to face a decline in income, especially when the TV Deal hits.

This TV Deal was extremely rich for the NBA due to the casual fans who will watch a lot of "superstar matchups" on national TV. In reality, the NBA doesn't make anywhere close to the money off of them as the do die-hard fans. Losing one die-hard fan is like losing ten casual fans, because the casual fan will sit at home and watch a couple game a week on TV (to see Westbrook play against Lonzo and the Warriors play against the Rockets, etc.), while the average die-hard fan will pay hundreds of dollars a year on tickets, pay $70-$100 on a jersey, pay $200 for NBA League Pass, as well as watch some nationally televised games.

...

The NBA is broken. They're success is hitting a peak right now because social media has created a huge amount of casual fans and the die-hard fans from small markets aren't yet fed up with the NBAs bullshit. However, it's starting to turn, and the NBA is going to realize just how important die-hard fans from small markets are.

I disagree with your premise simply because I think the sheer volume of casual fans makes their contribution to NBA revenue significantly greater than that of the die-hards, so even if many of the die-hards react as you hypothesize, I think the NBA will miss them less than they would the casual fans.

Look at soccer. It's arguable that the Timbers' die hard fans are more loyal, more engaged, more likely to spend money on their team, and perhaps even more numerous than the Blazers' die hard fans in Portland. However, the Timbers are far behind the Blazers in relevance to the city as a whole because it's the casual fan interest that drives the Blazers' popularity. As such, I imagine the Blazers and the NBA as a whole are much more interested in catering to the casual fans, and I don't blame them.

 

[H.C.]

Warriors ain't going to win 5 straight titles. Something will happen. Dame has the right attitude about it: build the team to win now; play to win now. Anything can happen. And it will.

Blazers 2018 champions - BBert

 

[BoBoBREWSKI]

Look at soccer. It's arguable that the Timbers' die hard fans are more loyal, more engaged, more likely to spend money on their team, and perhaps even more numerous than the Blazers' die hard fans in Portland. However, the Timbers are far behind the Blazers in relevance to the city as a whole because it's the casual fan interest that drives the Blazers' popularity. As such, I imagine the Blazers and the NBA as a whole are much more interested in catering to the casual fans, and I don't blame them.

Great example! I agree!

 

[BonesJones]

After 5 straight Warriors titles, the Warriors will be on the downslope and a new era of competitiveness will be dawning. I don't think that's when people will leave. If competitiveness were really the problem, this is when I'd expect people to leave--staring down the barrel of at least a few more years of Warriors dominance.

As I've said in other threads, though, and alluded to in my first post, I don't believe "competitiveness" is what drives league success.

Yeah, that's a valid alternative view, however I still feel like the league won't every come close to the competitiveness of the NFL or MLB.

I think it's the parity problem combined with other things that'll have an affect.

 

[BonesJones]

I disagree with your premise simply because I think the sheer volume of casual fans makes their contribution to NBA revenue significantly greater than that of the die-hards, so even if many of the die-hards react as you hypothesize, I think the NBA will miss them less than they would the casual fans.

Look at soccer. It's arguable that the Timbers' die hard fans are more loyal, more engaged, more likely to spend money on their team, and perhaps even more numerous than the Blazers' die hard fans in Portland. However, the Timbers are far behind the Blazers in relevance to the city as a whole because it's the casual fan interest that drives the Blazers' popularity. As such, I imagine the Blazers and the NBA as a whole are much more interested in catering to the casual fans, and I don't blame them.

I just don't see how casual fans supply he NBA with income close to the amount die-hard fans do. Casual fans don't buy tickets, and are a lot less likely to buy gear.

 

[riverman]

Casual fans don't buy tickets

you've never seen a Lakers game?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I just don't see how casual fans supply he NBA with income close to the amount die-hard fans do. Casual fans don't buy tickets, and are a lot less likely to buy gear.

TV deals massively dwarf ticket/merch revenue, and those are driven by casual fans. And a lot of ticket sales are corporate rather than personal (suites and courtside especially), and casual fans drive that too.

 

[riverman]

I don't think you understand how many businesses use season tickets and blocks of tickets to wine and dine clients ....

 

[Minstrel]

I just don't see how casual fans supply he NBA with income close to the amount die-hard fans do. Casual fans don't buy tickets, and are a lot less likely to buy gear.

Casual fans do buy tickets, they just don't buy season tickets. Each individual "casual" doesn't have to buy many tickets per season for a stadium crowd each night to be mostly "casuals."

Honestly, my guess is that ticket sales are driven by disposable income, not the casual/hardcore split. I'm reasonably sure the vast majority of hardcore fans of a team don't have season tickets, because they can't justify the expense. For people, including casual fans, who can afford them, NBA games are just another entertainment option.