Fact - When Offence Runs Through VC,Nets have a better chance of winning.

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Apocalypse™

Apocalypse™

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Here are the games that the both played,including todays game against the Miami Heat.

10289423ji0.jpg


Here is the winning percentage :

40586984ss5.jpg


Jefferson's number would be much worse if Carter wasn't there for example look at the time when Carter was injured some horrible figures and when Carter is any game with Jefferson he usually puts up good numbers.Jefferson may be having a career year but no way can he carry the team like Kidd and Carter does.
 
Yup, and that 0-6 slide with Carter out is pretty telling.

So people can go ahead and say he dosen't play defense or run the floor, and thats fine, but he does get us wins.
 
And not just the Nets, either.

He can do the same for any team in the NBA!

It would take a lot to get him, but as this chart shows, he's worth it.
 
The offense ran through him last season, and it's not like we went places. Also don't forget his disappearing act in the playoffs.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kidd @ Dec 21 2007, 12:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The offense ran through him last season, and it's not like we went places. Also don't forget his disappearing act in the playoffs.</div>

Fact of the matter is, Vince is a better player than RJ. He impacts the game in more ways than RJ. RJ has been the most consistent scorer but Kidd and to a lesser extent Carter are the backbones of this team.

Case in point, today's game. RJ was doing RJ things. scoring, letting Wade abuse him defensively, turning the ball over. But Carter controlled the flow of the game and dropped 10 points in the 4th quarter when the offense ran through him.
 
Anyone paying attention to this thread and buying into it is clearly ignorant.

First...it is unfair to include the six games when Vince was out of the lineup in your win/loss columns. Vince would have troube winning without RJ this year and you cannot blame those losses when Vince wasn't in the lineup on RJ.

Therefore when RJ gets the most touches and Vince plays the team is actually
7-5 with a 58.3 % winning percentage which means The team actually has a better winning percentage when RJ gets the most touches compared to the 55.6 % winning percentage when Vince has the most touches

Secondly...

RJ averages 24.2 points a game when Vince has the most touches...
Vince averages 17.2 points a game when RJ gets the most touches...

RJ helps the cause significantly more for Vince than Vince does for RJ. RJ finds a way to score without the offense running through him, Vince apparently needs to be force fed in order to score.

Finally what does this all mean?

Well, it means that apocalyspe played with the numbers to prove a point and is now proved wrong...it proves we actually win more when RJ gets the most touches and it pisses me off that after a quality win I have to see an ignorant thread that is meant to start yhe whole RJ vs Vince war for the millionith time.

Listen neither player has been a problem...our bench has sucked, our frontcourt has been god awful, and Jason Kidd has lost the will to score...we have so many problems why create another?

Can't RJ and Vince fans just get along?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 21 2007, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Can't RJ and Vince fans just get along?</div>

It is too simplistic to dichotomize RJ and VC fans. Most people here are just fans of the team in general and no matter what some ignorant people wish to believe, RJ is not more important to the team success than Carter. They are both invariably key pieces but Carter, bum ankle and all, is still the straw that stirs their two games.
 
No sh**, RJ can't pass whatsoever, and is way too turnover prone, running the offense THROUGH him is completely illogical. And also, why do the coaches aqnd announcers overrqate this guy so much on defense? He's very below average defensively.
 
Basically, what this thread sums up...is that when Vince doesn't play like shit, and actually tries to make a difference in games, we get wins. No shit!

And when, at the same time, RJ gives his normally consistent effort, we get wins! Crazy! Who coulda thunk it.
 
<span style='font-family: "Trebuchet MS"'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857)</div><div class='quotemain'>Anyone paying attention to this thread and buying into it is clearly ignorant.

First...it is unfair to include the six games when Vince was out of the lineup in your win/loss columns. Vince would have troube winning without RJ this year and you cannot blame those losses when Vince wasn't in the lineup on RJ.

Therefore when RJ gets the most touches and Vince plays the team is actually
7-5 with a 58.3 % winning percentage which means The team actually has a better winning percentage when RJ gets the most touches compared to the 55.6 % winning percentage when Vince has the most touches

Secondly...

RJ averages 24.2 points a game when Vince has the most touches...
Vince averages 17.2 points a game when RJ gets the most touches...

RJ helps the cause significantly more for Vince than Vince does for RJ. RJ finds a way to score without the offense running through him, Vince apparently needs to be force fed in order to score.

Finally what does this all mean?

Well, it means that apocalyspe played with the numbers to prove a point and is now proved wrong...it proves we actually win more when RJ gets the most touches and it pisses me off that after a quality win I have to see an ignorant thread that is meant to start yhe whole RJ vs Vince war for the millionith time.

Listen neither player has been a problem...our bench has sucked, our frontcourt has been god awful, and Jason Kidd has lost the will to score...we have so many problems why create another?

Can't RJ and Vince fans just get along?</div>

1.If we take the games in which Carter was absent in to account me might aswell minus the games in which Carter was on the becnh because if you take it like that it would be fairer if they were both starters and this would further drops Jefferson number to a much worse percentage.Right ?

2.The only reason that RJ averages that amount of points when offence is flowing through VC,its only because Carter draws the double team and also he can create plays where as RJ really can't at all.

And about the "war" thing,I actully did this when we lost to the Sacramento Kings to back up my points further in another forum.I do't dislike RJ at all,I love him,he is a good player,but stats show that when RJ controls the offence the Nets have a higher chance to lose the game than VC.</span>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182 @ Dec 21 2007, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Basically, what this thread sums up...is that when Vince doesn't play like shit, and actually tries to make a difference in games, we get wins. No shit!

And when, at the same time, RJ gives his normally consistent effort, we get wins! Crazy! Who coulda thunk it.</div>

RJ giving his normally "consistent" effort does not necessarily translate to wins. RJ needs Carter to get him going and even if he does his 25 point thing, it won't necessarily impact the outcome of the game unless Kidd and Carter have stellar games too.

When Carter gets it going, which is obviously difficult with a bum ankle unless his shot is one fire, this team has a better chance of winning than with RJ getting it going. OF course this is all rendered a moot point really because our bench is atrocious and if Kidd isn't leading the way, RJ and Carter can both play decently offensively and we would still lose (ie. Houston).
 
I don't see the big deal.

Every team needs their highest paid players to give highest paid performances every night or they won't win.

That's why VC's trade value is so low.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 21 2007, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'> Vince apparently needs to be force fed in order to score.</div>
I've never seen more bullsh!t than this. UGH....IT STINKS.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Apoclypse @ Dec 21 2007, 10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><span style="font-family:Trebuchet MS"><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857)</div><div class='quotemain'>Anyone paying attention to this thread and buying into it is clearly ignorant.

First...it is unfair to include the six games when Vince was out of the lineup in your win/loss columns. Vince would have troube winning without RJ this year and you cannot blame those losses when Vince wasn't in the lineup on RJ.

Therefore when RJ gets the most touches and Vince plays the team is actually
7-5 with a 58.3 % winning percentage which means The team actually has a better winning percentage when RJ gets the most touches compared to the 55.6 % winning percentage when Vince has the most touches

Secondly...

RJ averages 24.2 points a game when Vince has the most touches...
Vince averages 17.2 points a game when RJ gets the most touches...

RJ helps the cause significantly more for Vince than Vince does for RJ. RJ finds a way to score without the offense running through him, Vince apparently needs to be force fed in order to score.

Finally what does this all mean?

Well, it means that apocalyspe played with the numbers to prove a point and is now proved wrong...it proves we actually win more when RJ gets the most touches and it pisses me off that after a quality win I have to see an ignorant thread that is meant to start yhe whole RJ vs Vince war for the millionith time.

Listen neither player has been a problem...our bench has sucked, our frontcourt has been god awful, and Jason Kidd has lost the will to score...we have so many problems why create another?

Can't RJ and Vince fans just get along?</div>

1.If we take the games in which Carter was absent in to account me might aswell minus the games in which Carter was on the becnh because if you take it like that it would be fairer if they were both starters and this would further drops Jefferson number to a much worse percentage.Right ?

2.The only reason that RJ averages that amount of points when offence is flowing through VC,its only because Carter draws the double team and also he can create plays where as RJ really can't at all.

And about the "war" thing,I actully did this when we lost to the Sacramento Kings to back up my points further in another forum.I do't dislike RJ at all,I love him,he is a good player,but stats show that when RJ controls the offence the Nets have a higher chance to lose the game than VC.</span>
</div>

1) Not really. The whole point being whats better Vince or RJ touching the ball most. In the games where Vince wasnt present RJ had only Boki and Wright as viable scoring options as our Frontcourt was scoring less than 10 ppg. In the games where Vince came off the Bench we won and RJ was primary offense.

2) Its not because Vince gets constantly doubled that RJ scores...neither player needs eachother to score all the games Vince was gone RJ still scored 21.6 points a game while being doubled and tripled up. Like I've been saying this is a pointless thread.

3) Techniquely who shoots the most isn't who controls the offense...this team is best when Jason Kidd (Future Hall Of Famer) runs the offense and creates for both Vince and RJ especially so the ball gets distributed to our big men.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (purplehaze89 @ Dec 21 2007, 10:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (peg182 @ Dec 21 2007, 03:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Basically, what this thread sums up...is that when Vince doesn't play like shit, and actually tries to make a difference in games, we get wins. No shit!

And when, <u>at the same time</u>, RJ gives his normally consistent effort, we get wins! Crazy! Who coulda thunk it.</div>

RJ giving his normally "consistent" effort does not necessarily translate to wins. RJ needs Carter to get him going and even if he does his 25 point thing, it won't necessarily impact the outcome of the game unless Kidd and Carter have stellar games too.

When Carter gets it going, which is obviously difficult with a bum ankle unless his shot is one fire, this team has a better chance of winning than with RJ getting it going. OF course this is all rendered a moot point really because our bench is atrocious and if Kidd isn't leading the way, RJ and Carter can both play decently offensively and we would still lose (ie. Houston).
</div>

Please.
phonics.gif

It can work for you, too.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Dec 21 2007, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Dec 21 2007, 12:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And not just the Nets, either.

He can do the same for any team in the NBA!

It would take a lot to get him, but as this chart shows, he's worth it.</div>

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trad...p;te=&cash=


</div>

do it. Dwill, Vince, AK47, Boozer...wow what a foursome! I really hope that happens
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Dec 21 2007, 07:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Dec 21 2007, 12:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>And not just the Nets, either.

He can do the same for any team in the NBA!

It would take a lot to get him, but as this chart shows, he's worth it.</div>

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/trad...p;te=&cash=


</div>

Why do you hate the Nets?

haha jp
 
<span style='font-family: "Trebuchet MS"'>I just thought that I let you guys know that I will be updating this after every Nets game.
</span>
 
Well I do think that Vince definitely is a better passer, and more efficient scorer, and tends to get doubled more than any other player on the Nets. RJ has really good stretches and bad, he'll be able to score 4 baskets in a row, but then commit 2 turnovers in a row. Carter has his passive stretches though.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 22 2007, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This thread is the epitome of what's wrong with this team.</div>

uh, what?


doing research on a player and the resulting winning percentage is whats killing the Nets out there?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Dec 22 2007, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jloc857 @ Dec 22 2007, 11:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This thread is the epitome of what's wrong with this team.</div>

uh, what?


doing research on a player and the resulting winning percentage is whats killing the Nets out there?
</div>

This so called research has no truth of basis too it...at least no the interpretation of it that has be predominatley used by some of the posters in this thread. As I said before this thread is mostly a RJ vs Vince forum...who should get the most touches or not.

now I maybe misused my words...its not why this team isn't winning but it is a problem with the fanbase and media perspective that I believe hurts team cohesion.
 
Jefferson went to the line like 15 times and Carter once.

I don't see how that means the "offence (canadiansic) ran through Carter".
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Dec 22 2007, 11:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Jefferson went to the line like 15 times and Carter once.

I don't see how that means the "offence (canadiansic) ran through Carter".</div>

So Jefferson is your favourite player?
 
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