Fatal shooting of firing range instructor by 9 year old girl and an Uzi

[Further]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/claudiakoerner/firing-range-instructor-dies-after-child-accidentally-shoots

Perhaps the old adage, 'those who can't, teach' applies here.

 

[THE HCP]

I can't wait to see people on here justify a 9 year old being able to have a GOD DAMN Uzi in their hands! Just like the constitution intended right?


Sent from my baller ass iPhone 5S...... FAMS!

 

[magnifier661]

Why would anyone think you can have a fully automatic weapon in the hands of a 9 year old?

 

[Further]

9

Parents should blame themselves.

 

[blue32]

9

Parents should blame themselves.

Negative.

What was more to blame was the establishment, range instructor and the lack of safety precautions.

The kid obviously wasn't strong enough, (Range Instructor should have seen this), The kid also did not understand the weapon (range instructor/establishment should have taught the student/user first), and when allowing young people to use/test guns of this type they should have had a fail safe built in, whether it was a slip-tether or some other mechanism to block the gun from raising to high. (safety precautions).

 

[blue32]

I can't wait to see people on here justify a 9 year old being able to have a GOD DAMN Uzi in their hands! Just like the constitution intended right?


Sent from my baller ass iPhone 5S...... FAMS!

Uh, its not like she was purchasing it for her personal use, or protection (like the Constitution references) . This gun was being used in a sanctioned firing range with supposedly qualified range instructors and valid safety protocols.

If you want to argue about something, argue about the range instructors lack of attention to the student, and the safety protocols/training of the establishment.

Young people handle guns every day all over the globe responsibly with proper training, technique, and guidance/supervision.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Negative.

What was more to blame was the establishment, range instructor and the lack of safety precautions.

The kid obviously wasn't strong enough, (Range Instructor should have seen this), The kid also did not understand the weapon (range instructor/establishment should have taught the student/user first), and when allowing young people to use/test guns of this type they should have had a fail safe built in, whether it was a slip-tether or some other mechanism to block the gun from raising to high. (safety precautions).

Wrong, this is on the parents. Doesn't matter if it was safe or legal. The parents brought her there and put her in that position for something to happen. Now because of them, their daughter is a murderer.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Young people handle guns every day all over the globe responsibly with proper training, technique, and guidance/supervision.

How much proper training and technique can a 9yr old have with an Uzi?

I'm not against her learning to shoot but an Uzi?

 

[blue32]

Wrong, this is on the parents. Doesn't matter if it was safe or legal. The parents brought her there and put her in that position for something to happen. Now because of them, their daughter is a murderer.

Murderer? LOL. uh okay.

"Muder - Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human, and generally this premeditated state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter)."


The establishment has an 8-yr old age rule, from what I heard.

The establishment should have had proper guidance and supervision, along with instructors that can recognize if a customer can't perform proper tasks to test-fire a gun.


Parents are not firearm instructors, and brought their kid to a proper range/instructor to get training. There is no harm in that thinking/want. It's actually the more responsible thing to do than to have mr.dad who probably doesn't instruct/train teach the kids. Every kid should understand firearms, and how they react/perform.

 

[blue32]

How much proper training and technique can a 9yr old have with an Uzi?

I'm not against her learning to shoot but an Uzi?

I am sure that a competent instructor could have had this situation avoided.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I am sure that a competent instructor could have had this situation avoided.

It doesn't matter. Just because there is a "competent" instructor doesn't mean that is something you want your kid to do. You could find a competent instructor to teach your kid how to handle cobras. Hell, in this fucked up world I bet you can find a competent instructor that can teach a 9yr old on how to suck a dick. Just because there are people that are competent on how to instruct someone to do something doesn't mean you have them do it.

The parents not the instructor put their daughter in this position.

It's one thing to teach children about guns and gun safety. I have no problem with that. But the only thing a 9 year should learn when it comes to a fully automatic weapon is to leave it the fuck alone.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Really, why does anyone need an Uzi in there hands?

 

[blue32]

It doesn't matter. Just because there is a "competent" instructor doesn't mean that is something you want your kid to do. You could find a competent instructor to teach your kid how to handle cobras. Hell, in this fucked up world I bet you can find a competent instructor that can teach a 9yr old on how to suck a dick. Just because there are people that are competent on how to instruct someone to do something doesn't mean you have them do it.

The parents not the instructor put their daughter in this position.

It's one thing to teach children about guns and gun safety. I have no problem with that. But the only thing a 9 year should learn when it comes to a fully automatic weapon is to leave it the fuck alone.

I can see your point, your examples are a little off-base/exaggerated, but whatever.

I still believe everything would have been fine had the instructor been better at his job, and the place had better safety protocols for younger users if they are going to allow young kids to fire exotic weapons, regardless of parent(s) decisions.

 

[blue32]

Really, why does anyone need an Uzi in there hands?

B/C we are a free people, and freedom means being able to pick up an Uzi and fire it if you want. (among other things).

 

[speeds]

I fired an Uzi at a range with an instructor before and I find it shocking that my guy was more careful and competent with me than the deceased was with a child.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I can see your point, your examples are a little off-base/exaggerated, but whatever.

I still believe everything would have been fine had the instructor been better at his job, and the place had better safety protocols for younger users if they are going to allow young kids to fire exotic weapons, regardless of parent(s) decisions.

Here is a better example, you take your 9yr old kid down to the racetrack. You want to teach them how to drive. The instructor is completely competent. Do you put your kid in a go-kart or a NASCAR race car? Even if the instructor says he can teach the kid how to drive the race car it doesn't mean that you do it.

 

[blue32]

I fired an Uzi at a range with an instructor before and I find it shocking that my guy was more careful and competent with me than the deceased was with a child.

Yeah, pretty much this. The guy was far to careless. He should have kept his hands on the uzi at all times, and also there should be no reason why the magazine should be fully loaded for younger people (on first fire attempt/learning)

The establishment should also put blanks in for younger people. That would have been my safety precaution that I would have personally added. Which is why I cite inadequate instructor and establishment rules above.

 

[blue32]

Here is a better example, you take your 9yr old kid down to the racetrack. You want to teach them how to drive. The instructor is completely competent. Do you put your kid in a go-kart or a NASCAR race car? Even if the instructor says he can teach the kid how to drive the race car it doesn't mean that you do it.

Apples and Oranges. You don't have to debate me any longer. We wont change each others minds. It's cool.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Murderer? LOL. uh okay.

"Muder - Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human, and generally this premeditated state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter)."


The establishment has an 8-yr old age rule, from what I heard.

The establishment should have had proper guidance and supervision, along with instructors that can recognize if a customer can't perform proper tasks to test-fire a gun.


Parents are not firearm instructors, and brought their kid to a proper range/instructor to get training. There is no harm in that thinking/want. It's actually the more responsible thing to do than to have mr.dad who probably doesn't instruct/train teach the kids. Every kid should understand firearms, and how they react/perform.

Parents who simply turn over their kids to a business thinking the business has all safety measures put into place are not being responsible parents in my eyes. Everything from play gyms, paintball, trampoline centers, boating events, firing guns . . . and many others. These businesses are often more concerned about turning a profit than ensuring child safety. Even if the business put safety high on the list, sometimes the people making the decisions aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer.

Parents should do their due diligence before allowing a child to partake in potentially dangerous activities.

 

[Minstrel]

B/C we are a free people, and freedom means being able to pick up an Uzi and fire it if you want. (among other things).

Free peoples need tanks too. And nuclear devices. We're a free people, yo. The only definition of "free people" is no limits.

 

[donkiez]

This is generally a situation that I actually support the use of firearms. A controlled environment with safety measures. Allowing a 9 year old to use an Uzi was not bright but under proper supervision and safety it could and probably has worked out. The blame falls on everyone involved though, as a parent allowing a 9 year old girl to use an uzi is pretty questionable judgement and the instructor obviously was not being safe. Really though this is just part of our gun culture, the more weapons you put in the system the more accidents and opportunity for accidents there are, they even happen to instructors and trained military vets.

The price of freedom?

 

[Further]

The problem is this subculture in America that is centered around guns. I am a gun owner, but I don't belong to this group, most gun owners aren't part of this group. I will occasionally talk to them and there is a large heaping spoonful of paranoia and aggression in this group, and they fight tooth and nail against any common sense rule or law pertaining to guns. It's just wrong. A third grader should not be taught how to use a fully automatic weapon. I'm not sure any civilian should, but certainly not a 9 year old girl. Place the blame on the parents, place the blame on the instructor, place the blame on the range, but also place the blame on our out of whack American gun culture.

 

[blue32]

This is generally a situation that I actually support the use of firearms. A controlled environment with safety measures. Allowing a 9 year old to use an Uzi was not bright but under proper supervision and safety it could and probably has worked out. The blame falls on everyone involved though, as a parent allowing a 9 year old girl to use an uzi is pretty questionable judgement and the instructor obviously was not being safe. Really though this is just part of our gun culture, the more weapons you put in the system the more accidents and opportunity for accidents there are, they even happen to instructors and trained military vets.

The price of freedom?

I think I can get behind this. I may have went a little far earlier when I responded to Further saying it shouldn't have been none of the parents fault. I'll retract and concede that everyone involved should have blame. But I still believe that the main fault is of the establishment/instructor.

 

[blue32]

Free peoples need tanks too. And nuclear devices. We're a free people, yo. The only definition of "free people" is no limits.

Uh, ya.... your head is in the clouds, lol. So much exaggeration to try and prove what? If you like being "limited" then go live in China or something.

 

[Stevenson]

We should blame a flawed 2nd Amendment in the Constitution. No other civilized country legally allows such atrocities.

 

[Eastoff]

The problem is this subculture in America that is centered around guns. I am a gun owner, but I don't belong to this group, most gun owners aren't part of this group. I will occasionally talk to them and there is a large heaping spoonful of paranoia and aggression in this group, and they fight tooth and nail against any common sense rule or law pertaining to guns. It's just wrong. A third grader should not be taught how to use a fully automatic weapon. I'm not sure any civilian should, but certainly not a 9 year old girl. Place the blame on the parents, place the blame on the instructor, place the blame on the range, but also place the blame on our out of whack American gun culture.

It is not a subculture, I have learned. It is a large part of the American culture. It frightens me.

 

[Further]

It is not a subculture, I have learned. It is a large part of the American culture. It frightens me.

I vacillate between believing its a culture or subculture. I have certainly spoken to many gun owners who overall support their rights to own guns, but think we have gone way over the edge on disallowing common sense restrictions or laws. Due to the vast power of the NRA I think this group is viewed as larger then they really are. Most gun owners want to have handgun or shotgun for security and a few guns for hunting. Most of them aren't alarmists who spend most waking hours around guns. The group isn't small, but I think the "gun nut" group is smaller than they are portrayed.

 

[Minstrel]

Uh, ya.... your head is in the clouds, lol. So much exaggeration to try and prove what? If you like being "limited" then go live in China or something.

Wait, what do you mean exaggeration? You don't support tanks and nuclear devices among the citizenry? Go back to China, fascist lolololol

 

[magnifier661]

Here is a better example, you take your 9yr old kid down to the racetrack. You want to teach them how to drive. The instructor is completely competent. Do you put your kid in a go-kart or a NASCAR race car? Even if the instructor says he can teach the kid how to drive the race car it doesn't mean that you do it.

Say what?!?! Hahahaha

Blaming the parents for the event is pretty funny. The range has instructors that are qualified to teach people how to shoot. As blue said, the age requirement was 8. She was 9. The parents may have not asked to even shoot the Uzi. They left it in the discretion of the instructor because he was more qualified to know what a child is used to.

To assume that the 9 year old murdered the instructor is silly IMO. And maybe the blame is on the parents for allowing their child to shoot a fully automatic weapon, but most that blame is on the instructor.

 

[magnifier661]

Wait, what do you mean exaggeration? You don't support tanks and nuclear devices among the citizenry? Go back to China, fascist lolololol

You know that's such a straw man statement! Come on you are better than that!