Finding it hard to care about the playoffs

[Voodoo]

The thing I like about the NFL is that you can conceivably rebuild your team in a three to four years and win a title. Right GM, right coach, right QB.... I realize that doesn't happened often, but in towns like Seattle and Carolina, there were enough of the right people in the right place to make those teams contenders. The game is big enough both in popularity and roster size, that when regulated correctly even a place like Green Baby can be a dynasty. The downside, games are around 4 hours long with 17 minutes of actual game play and the commercials.... Yet still, football, basketball, hockey, and baseball. They all have their pluses and their minuses.

Agreed, good post, football is a very unique sport in terms of the amount of players it has on the field. In a game like football a single player cannot have the same level of effect a player such as LeBron can have in a basketball game, as a result I think the NBA really needs to think about how they need to regulate the sport to control for that. Again I don't personally know how they would even attempt to do this, but I can see the problem and it certainly needs to be fixed as it's at this point ruining the sport.

 

[PHXBlazer1]

Ball.

 

[Chris Craig]

The NBA and its fucking ordained super teams can eat a bag of dicks in hell.

Seriously can someone create and post a picture of silver and the warriors eating a bag of dicks in hell. That'd be fucking hilarious

 

[Mediocre Man]

Turn on hockey.

You're welcome

 

[oldfisherman]

The thing I like about the NFL is that you can conceivably rebuild your team in a three to four years and win a title. Right GM, right coach, right QB.... I realize that doesn't happened often, but in towns like Seattle and Carolina, there were enough of the right people in the right place to make those teams contenders. The game is big enough both in popularity and roster size, that when regulated correctly even a place like Green Baby can be a dynasty. The downside, games are around 4 hours long with 17 minutes of actual game play and the commercials.... Yet still, football, basketball, hockey, and baseball. They all have their pluses and their minuses.

Agreed, good post, football is a very unique sport in terms of the amount of players it has on the field. In a game like football a single player cannot have the same level of effect a player such as LeBron can have in a basketball game, as a result I think the NBA really needs to think about how they need to regulate the sport to control for that. Again I don't personally know how they would even attempt to do this, but I can see the problem and it certainly needs to be fixed as it's at this point ruining the sport.

The NFL rule that a player must be out of high school for at least 3 years to be drafted also makes a huuugge difference. Their college playing time is basically the NFLs minor league. Players are more mature, injury tested, and ready to play than the one and done NBA players. The NFL scouts have far more intel on who to pick and not pick, and in what order in the draft.

How many top 3 picks have we seen lately in the NBA that are busts? How many take several seasons to be starter ready? Sadly, way too many NBA lottery picks fall way below expectations.

The quality of play has seriously declined on both the college and NBA level because of the one and done rule. Borrow the NFL rule that is proven to work.

The NBA has turned itself into a minor league for the NBA playoff league.

 

[Minstrel]

The NFL scouts have far more intel on who to pick and not pick, and in what order in the draft.

How many top 3 picks have we seen lately in the NBA that are busts? How many take several seasons to be starter ready? Sadly, way too many NBA lottery picks fall way below expectations.

Is there any evidence that the NFL does better at drafting? There are tons and tons of NFL first-rounders who bust, including top-3/top-5 draft picks.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The NFL rule that a player must be out of high school for at least 3 years to be drafted also makes a huuugge difference. Their college playing time is basically the NFLs minor league. Players are more mature, injury tested, and ready to play than the one and done NBA players. The NFL scouts have far more intel on who to pick and not pick, and in what order in the draft.

How many top 3 picks have we seen lately in the NBA that are busts? How many take several seasons to be starter ready? Sadly, way too many NBA lottery picks fall way below expectations.

The quality of play has seriously declined on both the college and NBA level because of the one and done rule. Borrow the NFL rule that is proven to work.

The NBA has turned itself into a minor league for the NBA playoff league.

I 100% agree and have touched upon it in the past myself. These kids need minimum 2 years of college play, if anything just so thier body can continue to mature before hitting the big time. Males aren't generally done growing at 18, so their body balance and equilibrium can potentially change dramatically from 18-21 and I have first hand personal knowledge this is a fact.

I went from 6-3 and 185 at 18 to 6-4 and 220 by 21 and was 230 by 25. That's a big change and took me a while to adjust and feel balanced leaving the ground.

Then you have the mental growth aspect I wont even get into.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Is there any evidence that the NFL does better at drafting? There are tons and tons of NFL first-rounders who bust, including top-3/top-5 draft picks.

for the NFL, its not the players in the draft, its how the teams draft. NFL is a completely different physical game, and much like baseball is much tougher to assess long term success because its alot more than just being athletic. More players on the field requires better mental skills and quicker thought processes. As fast as basketball is, I think that its a much easier sport to play because you can go one on one, but baseball and football are 100% team oriented. Plus football is a one way sport.

The great drafting teams in the NFL, could care less about high first round picks. They value stocking up on mid rounders and finding smart players who they can develop. Look at Seattle and NE. Notorious for drafting down and finding star players in the mid range.
NBA is more of an athletic sport, thus relying more on physical skill and the body just isn't matured at 18.
It isnt matured for football players either, but again, their success, to me, relies more on thinking than pure skills, so you can succeed eaiser in baseball and football easier while still not being fully physically matured.

 

[riverman]

I am trying to remember the last time a super star like Durant bailed on his team and left for a team that had already won a championship in the last two years and was already full of all stars and super stars. Has any other super star done anything similar to this? LeBron going to Miami is in the same vein, but the last time I think anything similar happened was Shaq back in what 1996 going to LA? And even that was a stretch because Kobe wasn't a super star yet and that team hadn't won a championship since the 80's way before he went there.

Durant I think is unique in this regard, and it's a display of how little of a competitive animal the guy really is as he took the easy route to success. Sure get away from the ego maniac that is Westbrook, but Durant basically tilted the scales towards an already very good Warriors team to such a degree that it's really impacted the entire league and it's entertainment value like I have never seen. A few years ago the west was insanely competitive from 1 to 8, it was a lot of fun to watch because you really didn't know who would win. In fact I remember a #5 seeded Blazers team beating a super star studded #4 Houston team not too long ago.

With Durant in OKC it felt like the top 4-5 teams in the west were legit contenders, but now it's really just three teams in the entire NBA that seem legit and thus it makes it hard to watch until those teams begin to start playing each other as it's really just not competitive. I don't have a solution to it, but the NBA does really need to address the parity issue as it is really affecting the quality of the game which means the entertainment value is greatly diminished.

Karl Malone and Gary Payton joining Kobe and Shaq in LA and LOSING!!! Ray Allen and KG joining up with Pierce in Boston also

 

[riverman]

I don't like the Warriors, Spurs or Cavs this season much...if the Bucks were still in it, I'd be more invested...haven't watched a whole playoff game since the Blazers were eliminated....I'm in baseball mode now and enjoying that...baseball is a great sport if you actually pay attention to the pitching and understand the nuances of the game...

 

[Orion Bailey]

Karl Malone and Gary Payton joining Kobe and Shaq in LA and LOSING!!! Ray Allen and KG joining up with Pierce in Boston also

Boston won though. The Lakers were epic, becuase they had just won 3 in a row the year prior and then added Malone and Payton? I thought Payton was a shoe in for a ring at that point.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I don't like the Warriors, Spurs or Cavs this season much...if the Bucks were still in it, I'd be more invested...haven't watched a whole playoff game since the Blazers were eliminated....I'm in baseball mode now and enjoying that...baseball is a great sport if you actually pay attention to the pitching and understand the nuances of the game...

It would be nicer if the Mariners could get their shit together....

 

[riverman]

It would be nicer if the Mariners could get their shit together....

They kicked butt last night....Motter...Segura and Gambill hit well.....I'm glad they sent Zumino to the minors and brought up a new catcher who can actually stop a bad pitch...Zumino was batting about 167 or something....worst job batting I've ever seen by a catcher....Mariners have had problems at the catching position for a couple years...

 

[Strenuus]

They kicked butt last night....Motter...Segura and Gambill hit well.....I'm glad they sent Zumino to the minors and brought up a new catcher who can actually stop a bad pitch...Zumino was batting about 167 or something....worst job batting I've ever seen by a catcher....Mariners have had problems at the catching position for a couple years...

We had Sucre.. It'll never get as bad as Sucre.

And we have had bad catching both hitting and fielding for at least a decade now.. Zunino will be fine in a couple years. He actually did fine the last 1/3 of the season last year.

Besides, our problems aren't with our offense, or even our defense. It's our damn pitching and the injuries to them, along with our relief pitching. Haniger being out has sucked, too. Dude was raking both in ST and the start of the season. Bah.

 

[riverman]

We had Sucre.. It'll never get as bad as Sucre.

And we have had bad catching both hitting and fielding for at least a decade now.. Zunino will be fine in a couple years. He actually did fine the last 1/3 of the season last year.

Besides, our problems aren't with our offense, or even our defense. It's our damn pitching and the injuries to them, along with our relief pitching. Haniger being out has sucked, too. Dude was raking both in ST and the start of the season. Bah.

Sucre was horrible...Zumino I thought would be an upgrade but he's horrible too...Ionetta wasn't anything special...the new guy they brought in is looking better than all 3 of those guys...I miss Dae Ho Lee though....they lost Guiterez, Lee, Smith and Lindt as far as big hitters from last season...they got much better baserunners in Dyson and Segura though....I like that they're going younger this season. I liked Aoki too.....but he's no baserunner. Leonis Martin couldn't hit early in the season either ....I think he's been sent to Tacoma too

 

[riverman]

Zunino will be fine in a couple years

He can't hit and he can't stop a pitch outside the strike zone...can't throw a runner out stealing 2nd...rarely even tries to field a foul pop up.I think he lacks most of the skills I want in a catcher...catchers should be top notch hitters with their knowledge of pitching...

 

[Cippy91]

Yeah remember when the west had all 8 teams winning around 50 games at the end of the season? Now you go into a season thinking "okay well only two of these teams have a chance really". As much as I think Lebron is a top 5 player at the end of his career, kinda started with him in Miami and even coming back to Cleveland he basically wanted love there and complained about the team and who they can get. All of a sudden they have deron Williams,etc. David west hopped to the spurs last season then hopped on the warriors this season. I really like Durant but that was a bitch move going to the warriors. I understand completely why David stern didn't let the lakers get cp3 that one year now. The stars seem to just wanna play together now and even sports media gets everybody going in the offseason about potential trades and signings leading to super teams.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The prevalence of 3-pointers has rapidly killed the game. Pretty much everything is a blowout now, depending on which team is hot.

I agree with this. It also kills pickup games, by the way. Now everybody just shoots threes (and bizarrely, everybody sags off and lets them, even though it's the only shot anyone practices and it's worth twice as much as the others).

What's the solution? Get rid of the 3-point line? Never happen. Move it out more? Meh. There'll be a couple of season lag as people practice the longer three and then it'll be back to where it was. Maybe move it in, like we had for a couple seasons back then. This sounds counterintuitive, but I think it would make the three easier to defend. And maybe get the illegal defense rules back so you can't double-team in the post so much. But then again, nineties basketball was all 80-79 scorelines, so...

 

[Orion Bailey]

Yeah remember when the west had all 8 teams winning around 50 games at the end of the season? Now you go into a season thinking "okay well only two of these teams have a chance really". As much as I think Lebron is a top 5 player at the end of his career, kinda started with him in Miami and even coming back to Cleveland he basically wanted love there and complained about the team and who they can get. All of a sudden they have deron Williams,etc. David west hopped to the spurs last season then hopped on the warriors this season. I really like Durant but that was a bitch move going to the warriors. I understand completely why David stern didn't let the lakers get cp3 that one year now. The stars seem to just wanna play together now and even sports media gets everybody going in the offseason about potential trades and signings leading to super teams.

I have to agree with this.

The players are setting more and more of a bad president. Before you know it, the top 50 in the league every year will have off season meetings about who they will team up with and where and in the end the bottom 45 will lose because the top 5 agree to hook up and go play together in some big city.
It was understandable back in the day to watch a guy like Drexler try here. Payton Try in Seattle and Malone try in Utah, but by the time they made the move to join a superteam, they had already exhausted the best of their years and options with the team they were on.
Now players are just hopping around like musical chairs or something.

 

[riverman]

I agree with this. It also kills pickup games, by the way. Now everybody just shoots threes (and bizarrely, everybody sags off and lets them, even though it's the only shot anyone practices and it's worth twice as much as the others).

What's the solution? Get rid of the 3-point line? Never happen. Move it out more? Meh. There'll be a couple of season lag as people practice the longer three and then it'll be back to where it was. Maybe move it in, like we had for a couple seasons back then. This sounds counterintuitive, but I think it would make the three easier to defend. And maybe get the illegal defense rules back so you can't double-team in the post so much. But then again, nineties basketball was all 80-79 scorelines, so...

I think part of this is not the 3 pt shot's fault but the lack of quality post players and guys who drive the lane and finish.....teams have stopped using old school bigs to spread the floor for the most part and now the most important skill it seems a center needs is making a free throw....Shaq would make 3 pt shooters pay by owning the paint and commanding double teams ....now, nobody owns the paint anymore. The league is filled with long ball shooters and seriously lacks guys who can finish in the paint

 

[Orion Bailey]

I agree with this. It also kills pickup games, by the way. Now everybody just shoots threes (and bizarrely, everybody sags off and lets them, even though it's the only shot anyone practices and it's worth twice as much as the others).

What's the solution? Get rid of the 3-point line? Never happen. Move it out more? Meh. There'll be a couple of season lag as people practice the longer three and then it'll be back to where it was. Maybe move it in, like we had for a couple seasons back then. This sounds counterintuitive, but I think it would make the three easier to defend. And maybe get the illegal defense rules back so you can't double-team in the post so much. But then again, nineties basketball was all 80-79 scorelines, so...

I don't buy this notion. sorry.

The three may not bring the most entertaining form of basketball to the fans, but it is a fad that has been glorified by the fact that there just isn't a dominate big in the league at the moment. A soon as the next ShaQ Or Hakeem, or Chamberlin shows up, the game will change again. The next truly dominant big man will change the game back to an inside out where the three is the second or third option.

 

[handiman]

I agree with this. It also kills pickup games, by the way. Now everybody just shoots threes (and bizarrely, everybody sags off and lets them, even though it's the only shot anyone practices and it's worth twice as much as the others).

What's the solution? Get rid of the 3-point line? Never happen. Move it out more? Meh. There'll be a couple of season lag as people practice the longer three and then it'll be back to where it was. Maybe move it in, like we had for a couple seasons back then. This sounds counterintuitive, but I think it would make the three easier to defend. And maybe get the illegal defense rules back so you can't double-team in the post so much. But then again, nineties basketball was all 80-79 scorelines, so...

I'm not sure what the solution is. I haven't been in favor of moving the 3-pt line out, as it penalizes players for getting better at a fundamental skill. Maybe change the point system, making 2's count as 3's and 3's count as 4's? The game itself would remain unchanged, but the risk-reward balance of each shot would shift. Scoring numbers would explode, of course. You could adjust the point system each year based on the previous year's 2pt:3pt ratio.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The solution is a big man and a coach that forces the big man to play to his strengths....

 

[Strenuus]

He can't hit and he can't stop a pitch outside the strike zone...can't throw a runner out stealing 2nd...rarely even tries to field a foul pop up.I think he lacks most of the skills I want in a catcher...catchers should be top notch hitters with their knowledge of pitching...

Funny enough - except for Piazza and Mauer, most catchers are actually very average hitters, if not poor. Molina comes to mind too.

Zunino does still need a lot of work, there's no denying that. But the catcher has always been a defensive minded player more than offensive, even lately. The Piazza's/Mauer/Molinas seem to be more exceptions than rules.

 

[Strenuus]

Sucre was horrible...Zumino I thought would be an upgrade but he's horrible too...Ionetta wasn't anything special...the new guy they brought in is looking better than all 3 of those guys...I miss Dae Ho Lee though....they lost Guiterez, Lee, Smith and Lindt as far as big hitters from last season...they got much better baserunners in Dyson and Segura though....I like that they're going younger this season. I liked Aoki too.....but he's no baserunner. Leonis Martin couldn't hit early in the season either ....I think he's been sent to Tacoma too

I've always ascribed to more contact hitting than power. More than likely with RISP you just need a knock... and if you have more of those guys that can knock the ball around - it happens at a far better clip, IMO.

I mean, if you think about it - a good HR guy is hitting 30 HR a game (The 50/60 HR guy is an outlier, really). You get what, 400 AB in a year usually. Maybe 500 if you're a top of the lineup guy... most players get between 100-125 hits in a season. (very rough averages, doing quick math) You get 30 of those (again, as a good to great HR guy) that can net you from 1-4 runs. Most likely the 1-2 range... but if you can get 70 hits and half of those are for 1-2 runs, with 15 HR as a top line... That's good stuff. Plus you move the lineup.

I hope we go back to small ball - it's more efficient, it shortens up swings, takes pressure off of the players.. Glad to see our team has got a good mix of that.

Now our pitching just needs to stay healthy...

 

[oldfisherman]

I have no idea if this is a good idea, just throwing shit on the wall (AKA brainstorming).

Each blocked shot without fouling the O player is worth 2 points for the defensive player; 3 points if a D player blocks a 3 point shot.

 

[handiman]

I have no idea if this is a good idea, just throwing shit on the wall (AKA brainstorming).

Each blocked shot without fouling the O player is worth 2 points for the defensive player; 3 points if a D player blocks a 3 point shot.

That rewards defense, but what does it do to change offense?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The players are setting more and more of a bad president.

Be fair - I'm sure most of them didn't vote for him.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

The three may not bring the most entertaining form of basketball to the fans, but it is a fad that has been glorified by the fact that there just isn't a dominate big in the league at the moment. A soon as the next ShaQ Or Hakeem, or Chamberlin shows up, the game will change again. The next truly dominant big man will change the game back to an inside out where the three is the second or third option.

Couldn't disagree more. In previous years players like Drummond would be taking their teams to the playoffs year after year. Cousins too. If anything changes this "fad" (which is a fad like global warming is a fad in that it's getting exponentially worse each year rather than just being a blip) it will be better defense on the perimeter. And that will only come with a change of rules, I think.

 

[ripcityboy]

I've always ascribed to more contact hitting than power. More than likely with RISP you just need a knock... and if you have more of those guys that can knock the ball around - it happens at a far better clip, IMO.

I mean, if you think about it - a good HR guy is hitting 30 HR a game (The 50/60 HR guy is an outlier, really). You get what, 400 AB in a year usually. Maybe 500 if you're a top of the lineup guy... most players get between 100-125 hits in a season. (very rough averages, doing quick math) You get 30 of those (again, as a good to great HR guy) that can net you from 1-4 runs. Most likely the 1-2 range... but if you can get 70 hits and half of those are for 1-2 runs, with 15 HR as a top line... That's good stuff. Plus you move the lineup.

I hope we go back to small ball - it's more efficient, it shortens up swings, takes pressure off of the players.. Glad to see our team has got a good mix of that.

Now our pitching just needs to stay healthy...

I usually hate the Moneyball dickheads but they are right when it comes to offense. Home runs isn't the best way to build your offense. You want guys who get high OBP and Runs Created. Now I think they go overboard with the stats but there is consistency with guys who get on base and bang runs across. Teams that build around 2 or 3 home run hitters usually go through offense explosion but then dry up for several games. The Yankees were like that with Arod and Tex, 3 run homer and then they'd GIDP a bunch of times. Now the Yanks have Aaron Hicks, Chase Headley, along with Brett Gardner.... So they can hurt you in other ways.
Another style of play that I love us the national leave type Stolen Bases and the old Hit and Run. The old KC and St Louis teams were build around that style. Ozzie Smith gets on base and Willie Mcgee hits a double to drive him in.
Rinse--Repeat. A great way to play baseball. I dont think baseball would seem as boring if more teams committed to speedsters and
slash hitters. It will be interesting when Manfred makes all those game play changes next year. If teams can only make so many pitching changes they may become more likw it to experiment. Double steals. Slash Bunts, The Old even the Fall Down At First Routine!