FIRE CRONIN

[Mediocre Man]

Great point, Dame needs excellent two way players to contend.

Too bad the Blazers traded 4 starters away for Josh Hart and Didi. So now it will be much harder to damn near impossible to build such a contending team around Dame.

The Blazers are now at a crossroads with a few realistic options to build;
1 Trade away youth/picks for win now veterans and fail at contending
2 Trade Dame and rebuild
3 Keep Dame and rebuild as the Lakers did with an old Kobe

Never thought in a few months Neil Olshey could look like one of the most amazing Blazer GM's... somehow Cronin accomplished that.

So wrong on this. Neil destroyed this franchise. All Joe did was hit reset

 

[wizenheimer]

Do you really think having New Orleans add in the Lakers pick if we didn't get the Pelicans would have called off the deal?

That isn't out of touch with reality. It is common sense.

so then, if that Laker's pick had been added with top-4 protections (extremely reasonable), the trade was fine?

meaning that if the Laker's pick jumped into the top 4 in the lottery, the trade will have still been fine, right?

if PG13 hadn't got Covid and the Clips beat the Pels and Portland did get that 11th pick, the trade was fine too...right?

I'm trying to gauge at what point you'd not bitch about the trade

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I'm sorry, but some of you are very out of touch with NBA reality. CJ isn't as valuable of an asset as many of you thought he was. Nobody wanted him and his contract.

Obviously your statement is false as the Pelicans traded value for CJ and his contract, So we know somebody did want him and his contract. The Knicks were rumored to offer legit assets. A year prior it was rumored Harden was possibly available for CJ.

Maybe CJ and Nance could have got more in a trade or maybe not. Maybe Norm and Roco could have got much more in a trade or maybe not.

Morey waited 8 months with a historically uncomfortable situation to trade Ben Simmons because it extracted the maximum value his team received back in a trade. Cronin traded happy members of the team a week before the deadline without having a chance to even hear the best offers throughout the league. If you can't see the massive GM negotiating and valuation difference between these two executives I'm not sure what to tell you.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

So wrong on this. Neil destroyed this franchise. All Joe did was hit reset

The Blazers have less talent now than they ever had in Neil Olshey's tenure.

The Blazers can't use cap space and keep their other assets (Simons, Nurk, trade exception), so likely they won't even use any cap space. Even if the team uses cap space it has little if any historical value along with a historically weak free agent class.

The Blazers owe a pick and are owed a pick, plus owe a bunch of seconds; so they don't even have draft assets as you'd expect of a team that traded away 4 starters.

The only good thing the Blazers Blazers did last year is cut luxury tax, which has no benefit to winning, only helping Jody and Vulcan pocketbooks.

 

[AngryFan]

If you listen to Dame’s interview where he compares himself to Giannis, Dame is thinking complimentary players.

Dame wants to be the star
Dame wants to be the man

What this team needs, if that’s the case, are guys that don’t need the ball to be effective.

Dame and Ant, just like Dame and CJ won’t work.

Dame needs a Klay Thompson. Great shooter off screens and a great perimeter defender

The problem with that is that Dame is not Giannis. He never has been and physically never can be.

I would agree that Dame needs a Klay Thompson but the problem is that you're not going to find one. Klay wasn't just a great shoot and defender... he was one of the greatest shooters of all time. That isn't a model that can be copied.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

The problem with that is that Dame is not Giannis. He never has been and physically never can be.

I would agree that Dame needs a Klay Thompson but the problem is that you're not going to find one. Klay wasn't just a great shoot and defender... he was one of the greatest shooters of all time. That isn't a model that can be copied.

Good points. So to contend the Blazers just need; 1. Dame to physically turn into Giannis, and 2. Find one of the best shooters of all time who is also excellent on defense.

Welcome to to the Cronin plan!

 

[wizenheimer]

The Blazers have less talent now than they ever had in Neil Olshey's tenure.

I don't think that's true at all. The 2015-16 team and the 2019-20 team had less talent. And that was with their in-season rosters. This 'current' team is 5 months away from their in-season roster

The Blazers can't use cap space and keep their other assets (Simons, Nurk, trade exception), so likely they won't even use any cap space. Even if the team uses cap space it has little if any historical value along with a historically weak free agent class.

you're saying that like there was ever a plan to create cap-space. There wasn't

besides that, if your really weird goal is to defend Olshey, you shouldn't say a damn thing about cap-space. When Olshey had cap-space, he made max offers to Roy Hibbert, Enes Kanter, Greg Monroe, Chandler Parsons, and Hassan Whiteside. Even when he was utilizing the full-MLE he made offers to Spenser hawes and Derrick Jones. Fortunately, Jones was the only one who accepted. In the other cases, Olshey was saved from his idiocy

The Blazers owe a pick and are owed a pick, plus owe a bunch of seconds; so they don't even have draft assets as you'd expect of a team that traded away 4 starters.

well, the fact that Portland gave away their last 2 first's and still owe another, plus have the next 6 years of their future first's obligated to another team is Olshey's fault, not Cronin's. And Olshey tossed away 2nd's like they had almost no value at all

as far as the "4 starters" thing...c'mon man, that's just crazy. Nance wasn't a starter. And Powell was the starting SF by default because Olshey couldn't see value in real wings. No team would be trading for Powell to be their starting SF. And very few would trade for him to be their starting SG. He had somewhere between starting SG and backup SG value, and even that was degraded value because of his 5 year contract averaging 15% of the salary cap every year

RoCo was the same kind of 'starter' as was Harkless and Aminu. Meaning that very few teams would have any of them as starters. Default starters because there weren't any good options.

in other words, your '4 starters' is really only 1 starter, 1 provisional starter, and 1 default starter

to summarize: just about every negative aspect of Portland's current situation you're harping on was created by your guy, Olshey

 

[e_blazer]

well, the fact that Portland gave away their last 2 first's and still owe another, plus have the next 6 years of their future first's obligated to another team is Olshey's fault, not Cronin's. And Olshey tossed away 2nd's like they had almost no value at all

That was a good synopsis of Olshey's incompetence & I agree with your post, but the above sentence could confuse people on the Blazers' future first round pick situation. It sounds as if they owe their next six years of picks to other teams, when the actual situation (and what I think you meant to say) is that the pick owed to Chicago continues to be owed to them over the next six seasons until that obligation is actually settled.

Here's a summary of Portland's future draft pick situation (Red lines update the chart for the loss of the NOP pick this year):

 

[oldmangrouch]

So wrong on this. Neil destroyed this franchise. All Joe did was hit reset

This not a zero sum game. Olshey doing a bad job doesn't mean Cronin is doing a good job.

 

[oldmangrouch]

I'm sorry, but some of you are very out of touch with NBA reality. CJ isn't as valuable of an asset as many of you thought he was. Nobody wanted him and his contract.

There is a difference between a player being a bad fit and being a bad player. CJ was the former. He wasn't a "star" by any means, but an above average starter has value.

Furthermore, CJ's trade value was deflated by allowing him to pick the team he was traded to. Just because he wanted to go to the Pels doesn't mean that was the best deal for the Blazers.

 

[Mediocre Man]

This not a zero sum game. Olshey doing a bad job doesn't mean Cronin is doing a good job.

Your perception doesn’t mean he’s doing a bad job either though, does it?

 

[Wizard Mentor]

So wrong on this. Neil destroyed this franchise. All Joe did was hit reset

0/2

 

[oldmangrouch]

Your perception doesn’t mean he’s doing a bad job either though, does it?

Nobody's opinion means anything. That's what an opinion is.

 

[Phatguysrule]

There is a difference between a player being a bad fit and being a bad player. CJ was the former. He wasn't a "star" by any means, but an above average starter has value.

Furthermore, CJ's trade value was deflated by allowing him to pick the team he was traded to. Just because he wanted to go to the Pels doesn't mean that was the best deal for the Blazers.

No other team wanted CJ more than the Pels. We weren't going to get back better value for CJ and his contract than Josh Hart and a chance at a lotto pick.

I've seen no evidence that would suggest otherwise.

 

[Hoopguru]

There is a difference between a player being a bad fit and being a bad player. CJ was the former. He wasn't a "star" by any means, but an above average starter has value.

Furthermore, CJ's trade value was deflated by allowing him to pick the team he was traded to. Just because he wanted to go to the Pels doesn't mean that was the best deal for the Blazers.

Reggie Miller said even though CJ isnt a star he can play like one....lol

 

[SharpesTriumph]

This not a zero sum game. Olshey doing a bad job doesn't mean Cronin is doing a good job.

Yeah its funny people are trying to argue with my posts showing how Neil is a poor GM and listing all his faults. I'm all for saying Neil deserved to be fired, even just looking at the 2016 offseason alone he deserved to be fired, not to mention his other shortcomings.

That doesn't mean Cronin is better, so far he shockingly has been even worse. Although I'm not sure how much of the blame goes to Jody/Vulcan; and similarly how much of the Neil blame should go to ownership too.

We can argue about the last two trades or Dame trades or rebuilding, contending vs not contending, how good of a coach Chauncy is, etc. The team will suck with the current ownership/management structure. This franchise is fucked until we get good management at the top, sadly nothing good appears to be happening here soon.

 

[oldmangrouch]

No other team wanted CJ more than the Pels. We weren't going to get back better value for CJ and his contract than Josh Hart and a chance at a lotto pick.

I've seen no evidence that would suggest otherwise.

None of us have any evidence, and all of us have strong feelings/opinions. That's why all the arguments.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Your perception doesn’t mean he’s doing a bad job either though, does it?

Someone could say the same thing about your perception of Neil. Or your perception of Joe's success.

Eventually we will have winning percentage, playoff wins, and future roster talent to judge Joe/Jody/Vulcan by. But those won't be known for years. All we can go by now is look at the current roster, judge the assets the team has, and grade the moves that the GM has made. It'll take many years to actually see the results. I don't want to see Joe/Jody/Vulcan lead this team for years, unfortunately nothing good is expected to change with this soon, as evident by the Blazers future being ranked 3rd worst in the NBA by ESPN.

 

[blazerkor]

I still contend that if Joe were a shoe in for permanent GM they would have announced it. I think the more days that go by without them having made an announcement the more likely we are to see a new GM. This is obviously something they have to be working on right now. I don't buy for a second that they would let an interim handle the trade deadline and then the draft... it just stinks too much of instability. If they are trying to build value for the franchise that is bad and if they are concerned with keeping the team winning and profitable that is also bad.

 

[Freshtown]

I still contend that if Joe were a shoe in for permanent GM they would have announced it. I think the more days that go by without them having made an announcement the more likely we are to see a new GM. This is obviously something they have to be working on right now. I don't buy for a second that they would let an interim handle the trade deadline and then the draft... it just stinks too much of instability. If they are trying to build value for the franchise that is bad and if they are concerned with keeping the team winning and profitable that is also bad.

i really hope you are right. Although the logic of “they wouldn’t be giving an interim gm control of the draft, only an incompetent org would do that” isn’t very comforting. It’s very likely we are dealing with an incompentent org!

 

[Mediocre Man]

Someone could say the same thing about your perception of Neil. Or your perception of Joe's success.

Eventually we will have winning percentage, playoff wins, and future roster talent to judge Joe/Jody/Vulcan by. But those won't be known for years. All we can go by now is look at the current roster, judge the assets the team has, and grade the moves that the GM has made. It'll take many years to actually see the results. I don't want to see Joe/Jody/Vulcan lead this team for years, unfortunately nothing good is expected to change with this soon, as evident by the Blazers future being ranked 3rd worst in the NBA by ESPN.

Of course.

I just don’t get the Joe dislike? Jody and the Vulcans for sure, but Joe took a talented, overpaid, set in their losing playoffs ways and hit reset

 

[Phatguysrule]

Of course.

I just don’t get the Joe dislike? Jody and the Vulcans for sure, but Joe took a talented, overpaid, set in their losing playoffs ways and hit reset

Bingo. Cronin was in a no win situation. Unless he can get lucky in the draft.

 

[Tince]

I still contend that if Joe were a shoe in for permanent GM they would have announced it. I think the more days that go by without them having made an announcement the more likely we are to see a new GM. This is obviously something they have to be working on right now. I don't buy for a second that they would let an interim handle the trade deadline and then the draft... it just stinks too much of instability. If they are trying to build value for the franchise that is bad and if they are concerned with keeping the team winning and profitable that is also bad.

Last I heard from Jason Quick, the Blazers haven't reach out to any of the mai agents who represent front office people, 6 months after Olshey was let go. If they were serious about finding a new GM to do a rebuild, it would've made sense to do it prior to the deadline. Why would you let an interim GM implement a plan that the next GM might be totally against?

 

[Hoopguru]

i really hope you are right. Although the logic of “they wouldn’t be giving an interim gm control of the draft, only an incompetent org would do that” isn’t very comforting. It’s very likely we are dealing with an incompentent org!

Coach CBill will be in charge with Bert and possibly still an interim? Or some new GM?

 

[wizenheimer]

I still contend that if Joe were a shoe in for permanent GM they would have announced it. I think the more days that go by without them having made an announcement the more likely we are to see a new GM. This is obviously something they have to be working on right now. I don't buy for a second that they would let an interim handle the trade deadline and then the draft... it just stinks too much of instability. If they are trying to build value for the franchise that is bad and if they are concerned with keeping the team winning and profitable that is also bad.

maybe

but if you're expecting a logical and traditional process from the Vulcans you'll be disappointed nearly every time

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Plus we don't have many tradeable contracts either.

Maybe not many right now, but by the time this summer's over, we could have:

• Ant (20m?)
• Nurk (15m?)
• TPE acquisition (17-21m)
• Hart (13m)
• MLE acquisition (10m)
• Ingles (8m?)
• #6 pick (6m)
• Nas (4.1m)
• Winslow (4m)

I'd say that'll be quite a few tradeable salaries by that point. Feels like we'll once again be in that "prime for a consolidation deal" position.

 

[BonesJones]

I'm sorry, but some of you are very out of touch with NBA reality. CJ isn't as valuable of an asset as many of you thought he was. Nobody wanted him and his contract.

Hahaha okay Mr. Enlightened, where did you get that last part or information from?

 

[BonesJones]

Maybe not many right now, but by the time this summer's over, we could have:

• Ant (20m?)
• Nurk (15m?)
• TPE acquisition (17-21m)
• Hart (13m)
• MLE acquisition (10m)
• Ingles (8m?)
• #6 pick (6m)
• Nas (4.1m)
• Winslow (4m)

I'd say that'll be quite a few tradeable salaries by that point. Feels like we'll once again be in that "prime for a consolidation deal" position.

Well the point was about right now.

Prime for consolidation but with fewer/less valuable assets to consolidate. That'll be fun.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Well the point was about right now.

True enough, and I did qualify my post with that fact. Just trying to look forward.

Prime for consolidation but with fewer/less valuable assets to consolidate. That'll be fun.

I think that part's debatable. The FRP rookie will be arguably the most valuable trade asset we've had in half a decade.

 

[THE HCP]

Billups will also help bring players in

LINK?