Fire Stotts Eventually

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Register Log in

How good do you think Terry Stotts is a s a coach?

  • Top 5

    Votes: 9 5.8%

  • Top 10

    Votes: 44 28.6%

  • Top 20

    Votes: 35 22.7%

  • Needs to go!

    Votes: 51 33.1%

  • He's the very best!

    Votes: 2 1.3%

  • Lets hope he continues to improve.

    Votes: 13 8.4%
  • Total voters
    154

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Tince said:
I think the more interesting and relevant breakdown is would be the following:
  • Find the list of the coaches who have been on one team for 9+ years without winning a championship (I know it's here somewhere)
  • Compare that coaches success with the coach who replaced him
  • Determine how many titles that franchise won in the next 9 years.
That might give better insight on if the coach was the issue or maybe it's a bigger issue with the franchise. I'm going to guess that these franchises rarely, if ever won a championship after moving on for the coach of 9+ years.
Click to expand...

This was far easier to compile than I thought. Here's what I found:

upload_2021-4-13_12-44-28.png

Of the 5 pervious coaches who coach for a team 10 years and did not win a title
  • Decreased losing percentage of 10% (8+ wins a year)
  • A new coach followed every nearly once every 2.5 years - instability
  • 0 Championships and 1 Final appearance in 50 seasons.
 
Tince said:
This was far easier to compile than I thought. Here's what I found:

View attachment 38051

Of the 5 pervious coaches who coach for a team 10 years and did not win a title
  • Decreased losing percentage of 10% (8+ wins a year)
  • A new coach followed every nearly once every 2.5 years - instability
  • 0 Championships and 1 Final appearance in 50 seasons.
Click to expand...

Then let's keep Terry forever and not even try anything else.
 
TBpup said:
Then let's keep Terry forever and not even try anything else.
Click to expand...

I suppose that's one conclusion. I think you could spin it and say that these are all smaller market franchises who hold onto marginal coaches for longer.

My long time stance is that we should focus on the roster creation aspect of things that appear to play a much larger role in winning championships.
 
Tince said:
I think the more interesting and relevant breakdown is would be the following:
  • Find the list of the coaches who have been on one team for 9+ years without winning a championship (I know it's here somewhere)
  • Compare that coaches success with the coach who replaced him
  • Determine how many titles that franchise won in the next 9 years.
That might give better insight on if the coach was the issue or maybe it's a bigger issue with the franchise. I'm going to guess that these franchises rarely, if ever won a championship after moving on for the coach of 9+ years.
Click to expand...
Yeah the list was in my reply to your post a couple replies back. It's:

John MacLeod - Suns - 13 seasons, no championship
Jerry Sloan - Jazz - 12 seasons, no championship
Don Nelson - Bucks - 10 seasons, no championship
Flip Saunders - Timberwolves - 10 seasons, no championship
Doug Moe - Nuggets - 10 seasons, no championship

The Suns became far more competitive after MacLeod but that was due to the Barkley move and emergence of KJ. We know that the Jazz look great this season but it's the tenth since Sloan and we don't know how they'll fare but they've been worse in the nine years since Sloan left. The Bucks were worse after Nelson left. The Wolves were terrible, I could just leave it at that but they were worse after Flip Saunders and underwent a major rebuild when KG left for Boston and still haven't put it together. The comparison usually isn't a fair one because when a team is ready to go away from a long time head coach it usually means they're also ready to make other big changes. The idea that these teams would be in position to win a championship at the end of one of these long and unsuccessful run doesn't tell me much because none of these coaches were close to winning one when they left.

I don't find the exercise very useful because firing Stotts and Olshey for that matter isn't about the precedence of what others have done after a firing, it's about the precedence this duo has set of mediocrity for our organization. They need to go because they haven't been getting their jobs done and have been given ample time to show if they can or cannot. Let's see if some other people can do a better job. You don't keep a person in a job who is failing to meet expectations and has stopped growing because you're afraid you will fuck up and hire someone worse.
 
blazerkor said:
Yeah the list was in my reply to your post a couple replies back. It's:

John MacLeod - Suns - 13 seasons, no championship
Jerry Sloan - Jazz - 12 seasons, no championship
Don Nelson - Bucks - 10 seasons, no championship
Flip Saunders - Timberwolves - 10 seasons, no championship
Doug Moe - Nuggets - 10 seasons, no championship

The Suns became far more competitive after MacLeod but that was due to the Barkley move and emergence of KJ. We know that the Jazz look great this season but it's the tenth since Sloan and we don't know how they'll fare but they've been worse in the nine years since Sloan left. The Bucks were worse after Nelson left. The Wolves were terrible, I could just leave it at that but they were worse after Flip Saunders and underwent a major rebuild when KG left for Boston and still haven't put it together. The comparison usually isn't a fair one because when a team is ready to go away from a long time head coach it usually means they're also ready to make other big changes. The idea that these teams would be in position to win a championship at the end of one of these long and unsuccessful run doesn't tell me much because none of these coaches were close to winning one when they left.

I don't find the exercise very useful because firing Stotts and Olshey for that matter isn't about the precedence of what others have done after a firing, it's about the precedence this duo has set of mediocrity for our organization. They need to go because they haven't been getting their jobs done and have been given ample time to show if they can or cannot. Let's see if some other people can do a better job. You don't keep a person in a job who is failing to meet expectations and has stopped growing because you're afraid you will fuck up and hire someone worse.
Click to expand...

Yes, I used your list, thank you.

I agree with you that a 5 team, 100 season sample isn't the end all be all. I think it does at the very least poke a hole in the theory that getting rid of a coach who hadn't won a title for 9 years will unlock the key to success. Getting rid of your coach under the assumption they are the key reason you're averaging 2-3 playoff wins a season vs winning a title would be very foolish in my opinion; though it appears some here have adopted that mindset.

I'm in full agreement that Olshey/Stotts have not got the job done. The "lets see if some other people can do better" theory is kind of what this exercise was designed for. Can new people do they better? Sure. Is it realistic for the long term that the expected outcome will improve when we see change? I'm less confident.

How do we build a championships roster of players? That's the big question I continue to ask.
 
blazerkor said:
The Suns became far more competitive after MacLeod but that was due to the Barkley move and emergence of KJ.
Click to expand...

Which I think feeds into Tince's point that roster construction matters far, far more than the coach.

I don't think Stotts is a keeper coach, so I don't care if he's fired. However, I think firing Stotts is re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic until we get a GM who can both find elite talent and put together a roster that is cohesive on both ends of the court.
 
Tince said:
I suppose that's one conclusion. I think you could spin it and say that these are all smaller market franchises who hold onto marginal coaches for longer.

My long time stance is that we should focus on the roster creation aspect of things that appear to play a much larger role in winning championships.
Click to expand...
I agree but along with retooling this roster and possibly a total rebuild if Dame isn't on board with building a better team around him... we need a new coach because this one is obviously checked out and done with the local media. He's been a disaster this season and IMO has never been good. Dame has been keeping Olshey and Stotts around since day one (hopefully just from his play) and they have honestly been doing nothing but riding his coattails.

So we need to start a huge overhaul right away and I would start by firing Olshey and Stotts today. Olshey has shown an inability to accurately assess the value of guys that he has drafted and today it seems like Ant was what kept us from getting Aaron Gordon... Ant. Stotts has become seemingly disengaged on the court and combative about that off the court. Time for these guys to go. Time for different roster construction. Time for change.
 
Minstrel said:
Which I think feeds into Tince's point that roster construction matters far, far more than the coach.

I don't think Stotts is a keeper coach, so I don't care if he's fired. However, I think firing Stotts is re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic until we get a GM who can both find elite talent and put together a roster that is cohesive on both ends of the court.
Click to expand...

Yes, yes, and yes!

If firing Stotts means we can add that legit 2-way all-star this roster needs to win a title, I'd do it in a split second!
 
blazerkor said:
I agree with most of what you said but if you're saying that it's time for Dame to go, I would have to disagree. Stotts and Olshey will go. The new GM will get the best they can for CJ and possibly others on the team and Dame will no longer be in a stale situation. Dame likes to compare himself to Dirk who went through different coaches and rosters in Dallas and it is time for a change of scenery for Dame but not scenery doesn't have to mean setting.

Now if Dame is holding up all of the moves that everyone knows need to be made for this team to get out of this rut and is doing so with an ultimatum that he will want traded if he doesn't have things his way... then I would say that this situation has become too stale for him and us. Both parties in that scenario should move on.
Click to expand...
Not meaning Dame, as he says he wants to retire here, but for some players 9 years is a long time with one organization. I would say however, that it would be rejuvenating with new ownership.
 
blazerkor said:
I agree but along with retooling this roster and possibly a total rebuild if Dame isn't on board with building a better team around him... we need a new coach because this one is obviously checked out and done with the local media. He's been a disaster this season and IMO has never been good. Dame has been keeping Olshey and Stotts around since day one (hopefully just from his play) and they have honestly been doing nothing but riding his coattails.

So we need to start a huge overhaul right away and I would start by firing Olshey and Stotts today. Olshey has shown an inability to accurately assess the value of guys that he has drafted and today it seems like Ant was what kept us from getting Aaron Gordon... Ant. Stotts has become seemingly disengaged on the court and combative about that off the court. Time for these guys to go. Time for different roster construction. Time for change.
Click to expand...

I'm on board with this if it can produce meaningful change on the roster front, which is what truly matters. Even trading Ant for Aaron Gordon probably doesn't tip the scales, we need to go bigger than that. Big ask I know, but that's what history says it will take.

I do challenge the theory of "this isn't working so anything different is better." I think you have to be calculated in your changes and I think my original list shows that some of these franchises may have made a move to just make it and are still paying dearly. NONE of them have won a title since, in 119 attempts.
 
Tince said:
Yes, yes, and yes!

If firing Stotts means we can add that legit 2-way all-star this roster needs to win a title, I'd do it in a split second!
Click to expand...
Start with new ownership, I do think there will be a buyer in the offseason. Just a gut feeling.
 
Which of the following current coaches with rings would you want for this team now?
Pop
Kerr
Spoelstra
Carlisle
Lue
Nurse
Doc

Id prob go with Spoelstra...I do like Nurse too?
 
Hoopguru said:
Which of the following current coaches with rings would you want for this team now?
Pop
Kerr
Spoelstra
Carlisle
Lue
Nurse
Doc

Id prob go with Spoelstra...I do like Nurse too?
Click to expand...

Kerr, Spoelstra, Carlisle and Nurse for sure. Pop, too, probably, though I'm concerned that he might be exiting his "brilliant coach" phase and entering his "stubborn back-in-my-day" phase. But I'd still take the risk if there were some way for Portland to get him.
 
Hoopguru said:
Which of the following current coaches with rings would you want for this team now?
Pop
Kerr
Spoelstra
Carlisle
Lue
Nurse
Doc

Id prob go with Spoelstra...I do like Nurse too?
Click to expand...
If we could get Spo that would be amazing. I mean a Portland kid with that much experience would be phenomenal. I'd take Ty Lue next. Then Nurse. I'd want someone who would still be looking to carve out their legacy instead of someone who felt they'd already done that.
 
blazerkor said:
John MacLeod - Suns - 13 seasons, no championship
Jerry Sloan - Jazz - 12 seasons, no championship
Don Nelson - Bucks - 10 seasons, no championship
Flip Saunders - Timberwolves - 10 seasons, no championship
Doug Moe - Nuggets - 10 seasons, no championship
Click to expand...

I wonder how many of those guys never won a single conference finals game? I know that Sloan made the finals twice.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I wonder how many of those guys never won a single conference finals game? I know that Sloan made the finals twice.
Click to expand...

Most playoff games won in a single season:

Sloan - 13 (twice)
Nelson - 8
MacLeod - 10
Saunders - 10
Moe - 8
Stotts - 8
 
Hoopguru said:
Which of the following current coaches with rings would you want for this team now?
Pop
Kerr
Spoelstra
Carlisle
Lue
Nurse
Doc

Id prob go with Spoelstra...I do like Nurse too?
Click to expand...

Pop easy.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I wonder how many of those guys never won a single conference finals game? I know that Sloan made the finals twice.
Click to expand...
Flip didn't even make it to the conference finals until that ninth season but they won two games in that WCF and when the next season started rocky they fired him. I had been saying that it was unprecedented that Stotts didn't have any conference finals wins in his first eight seasons with one team but I was wrong. It's him and Flip.

I guess the question is, does the Trail Blazers franchise want to be grouped in with the T Wolves? The other guys had conference finals wins, Sloan was the only one who hadn't made it to the finals by the end of his eighth season and it's just a small and dubious list to be on. It's not Terry's fault that he's still here it's the organization's job to assess his faults and realize that he's not getting us further and likely is holding us back.

I don't think coaches win championships but they should be a real net positive for the team. It's unacceptable for a coach to be neutral or a net negative. Stotts has spent most of his time here as a neutral in my estimation but has been a net negative for a while now. He makes excuses in the place of accountability, he does not adjust and now he seems disengaged. I don't see him as an innovator or a motivator and those are the things it takes to be a coach that affects championship team's in a positive way. For those that think that Stotts is a motivator because he keeps his players somewhat happy, I would say that he is a cheerful stagnator. He makes guys feel good with where they are at. Sure he asks them to work hard but it's always followed up by "we'll get em next time" instead of building up or holding accountable.
 
Tince said:
Most playoff games won in a single season:

Sloan - 13 (twice)
Nelson - 8
MacLeod - 10
Saunders - 10
Moe - 8
Stotts - 8
Click to expand...
Yeah with Stotts that was a series of drawn out series followed by a no show in the conference finals. It does go to show you that when you fail to efficiently navigate the playoffs, you're not going to win the whole thing.
 
blazerkor said:
Yeah with Stotts that was a series of drawn out series followed by a no show in the conference finals. It does go to show you that when you fail to efficiently navigate the playoffs, you're not going to win the whole thing.
Click to expand...

I've always found the "no-show" take in the conference finals to be strange. I believe they led the series in game control, but ultimately couldn't close them out. Not being able to close out is an issue, but they weren't beat down in any game outside of Game 1, and even that was tied early in the 4th I believe.

Not to mention that Golden St was the more talented team.
 
blazerkor said:
Yeah with Stotts that was a series of drawn out series followed by a no show in the conference finals. It does go to show you that when you fail to efficiently navigate the playoffs, you're not going to win the whole thing.
Click to expand...
I think Rick won 13 playoff games in one season.
 
Stotts' biggest supporter, Chad Doing, has officially boarded the Fire Stotts train. The seat is cookin' for Terry...

XrQ0a8.gif
 
Hoopguru said:
Which of the following current coaches with rings would you want for this team now?
Pop
Kerr
Spoelstra
Carlisle
Lue
Nurse
Doc

Id prob go with Spoelstra...I do like Nurse too?
Click to expand...

pop if he committed to coach for a few more years at least

Spo
Nurse

No thanks to the others. None of them are what I would be looking for.
 
Tince said:
I've always found the "no-show" take in the conference finals to be strange. I believe they led the series in game control, but ultimately couldn't close them out. Not being able to close out is an issue, but they weren't beat down in any game outside of Game 1, and even that was tied early in the 4th I believe.

Not to mention that Golden St was the more talented team.
Click to expand...
Wanna know why they didnt win games? Because they barely had any reps running other defensive schemes other than drop scheme. We switched away from drop in Games 2, 3, & 4 and were much more competitive, but had we ran something else during the regular season, we likely wouldve had the details down to be able to win 1 or 2 of those games.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top