Fire Stotts Eventually (1 Viewer)

[riverman]

Notice some of these "elite " coaches without Lebron haven't had the same success.......sort of like the Mavs after Dirk..Spurs after Duncan.......coaching is part of a team but it's not the X factor in winning championships...depth and chemistry are along with consistent execution and some luck..health definitely matters

 

[BonesJones]

But did he REALLY coach the Lakers to a championship? I have a feeling LeBron and AD took care of that. And Lue? Really? LeBron literally grabbed the clipboard from him and drew up plays in the huddle. We see that Luke Walton could have also coached that warriors team to the ring and look at him now. Nurse I'm sure was quite grateful to have been handed Kawhi, I'm sure that helped.
This is a perfect example of coaches getting too much blame and too much credit. To think these coaches "LED" their teams to championship rings is comical.

So if coaches don't matter much, why do people (including you) care so much about Stotts criticism?

 

[e_blazer]

So if coaches don't matter much, why do people (including you) care so much about Stotts criticism?

I can't answer for HCP, but for me it just gets old because it's just not the major issue plaguing the Blazers at the present time and it really isn't realistic to think that switching horses midseason is going to make any significant difference. If the Blazers had Nurkic, McCollum and Collins all healthy and the team was out of the playoff picture, I could see making a change. Or, if the Blazers' roster was really on a competitive level challenging for the title and it was decided that a coach with more championship experience was needed, that would make sense to me. I think that Olshey and Stotts both have to be on thin ice with Jody Allen after spending so much money the last couple of years with not much to show for it. I think that unless the team gets healthy and really makes a strong finish to the season and then goes on to achieve some success in the playoffs, they're both out of here next summer. The new GM would have a chance to change the roster up and pick a head coach that he feels can get the job done.

 

[HolyBackboard]

I've been in the Fire Stotts camp, but making a change mid-season would be an unbelievably bad decision. Going into this season, my thought was the Blazers needed to get out of the First Round (at the bare minimum) and make the WCSF series competitive if we were to move forward with another season of Stotts and Olshey. If we're not able to accomplish that, then changes need to be made.

 

[BonesJones]

I can't answer for HCP, but for me it just gets old because it's just not the major issue plaguing the Blazers at the present time and it really isn't realistic to think that switching horses midseason is going to make any significant difference. If the Blazers had Nurkic, McCollum and Collins all healthy and the team was out of the playoff picture, I could see making a change. Or, if the Blazers' roster was really on a competitive level challenging for the title and it was decided that a coach with more championship experience was needed, that would make sense to me. I think that Olshey and Stotts both have to be on thin ice with Jody Allen after spending so much money the last couple of years with not much to show for it. I think that unless the team gets healthy and really makes a strong finish to the season and then goes on to achieve some success in the playoffs, they're both out of here next summer. The new GM would have a chance to change the roster up and pick a head coach that he feels can get the job done.

Idk how the Blazers running drop against CP3 and Booker isnt a major issue. Or how the Blazers offense having little structure and stagnating isnt a major issue. Or how Nas can ball tf out and play with more effort than anyone and he only gets 4 minutes in 3 quarters isnt a major issue. Or how the Blazers have no idea how to attack a trap when weve seen it for years isnt a major issue. Or how a lack of adjustments when things are going bad isnt a major issue. Or how the lack of accountability on the defensive end or with little things such boxing out isnt a major issue. Or how the lack of improvement of players defensively isnt a major issue. Or.......

 

[BonesJones]

Notice some of these "elite " coaches without Lebron haven't had the same success.......sort of like the Mavs after Dirk..Spurs after Duncan.......coaching is part of a team but it's not the X factor in winning championships...depth and chemistry are along with consistent execution and some luck..health definitely matters

Rosters matter, obviously. No one is arguing otherwise. But I like the base my evaluation of Stotts based on what he does and doesnt do, not based off of what other coaches did once and then did another time.

 

[blazerkor]

I can't answer for HCP, but for me it just gets old because it's just not the major issue plaguing the Blazers at the present time and it really isn't realistic to think that switching horses midseason is going to make any significant difference. If the Blazers had Nurkic, McCollum and Collins all healthy and the team was out of the playoff picture, I could see making a change. Or, if the Blazers' roster was really on a competitive level challenging for the title and it was decided that a coach with more championship experience was needed, that would make sense to me. I think that Olshey and Stotts both have to be on thin ice with Jody Allen after spending so much money the last couple of years with not much to show for it. I think that unless the team gets healthy and really makes a strong finish to the season and then goes on to achieve some success in the playoffs, they're both out of here next summer. The new GM would have a chance to change the roster up and pick a head coach that he feels can get the job done.

Yeah, if I were the owner I'd send a clear message that Olshey has fucked up and fire him now. If the new GM chose to fire Stotts mid-season and replace him with someone new or go with an interim, I wouldn't have a problem with that either but I just hope you're right about Jody and the Vulcans (which is also a knew indie rock band that I'm promoting) but I hope they fire Olshey and let a new GM do his thing if we don't make some big noise in these playoffs.

The thing is, if Olshey doesn't do what he won't and holds onto CJ and Nurk... I don't give a shit about Zach being out... this team should be fucking phenomenal when they get back. I know CJ was playing great ball to start the season. So if Olshey is right and the pieces fit then getting CJ and Nurk back should make our 61% win percentage since they left skyrocket. So we should definitely end up with home court in the first round and probably pass the one of the top three teams. If our record doesn't improve and/or we don't make it to the WCF and actually win a game, then Olshey should be fired and everything else should be up to the new GM.

 

[calvin natt]

Out of the last 4 first-in-a-generation champions, all 4 were coached by first time coaches.

LAL - Vogel
CLE - Lue
GSW - Kerr
TOR - Nurse

Nurse is the best of the group, by a mile. I put Stotts same level as the others or above.

 

[riverman]

To me there is no reason on earth either Stotts or Olshey should be fired. Definitely not my option but I love the stability. I've said a million times that a players coach is very different in the approach to the game than a micro managing coach is. Stotts trusts his vets to make reads, execute, know their options and stay sharp....he'll live with the results. I have no issue living with the results either. Pat Riley said no coach will win a championship again until MJ retires! ...then Pat got Lebron and Wade and Bosh and won. Phil Jackson sucked with the Knicks..he didn't make them win...he also didn't coach MJ, Pippen, Kobe or Shaq at that point. Larry Brown didn't change Charlotte after winning a championship in Detroit....there's no coaching bandaid to win a championship...that takes a combination of things falling together at the same time. I just think some fans have an inherent need to see the grass greener and really enjoy what if plug and play scenarios...which is fine. What we have in spades is a healthy lockerroom and a roster filled with respect for our coach....I can live with that too. Never really understood how emo some folks get over this stuff.

 

[blazerkor]

To me there is no reason on earth either Stotts or Olshey should be fired. Definitely not my option but I love the stability. I've said a million times that a players coach is very different in the approach to the game than a micro managing coach is. Stotts trusts his vets to make reads, execute, know their options and stay sharp....he'll live with the results. I have no issue living with the results either. Pat Riley said no coach will win a championship again until MJ retires! ...the Pat got Lebron and Wade and Bosh and won. Phil Jackson sucked with the Knicks..he didn't make them win...he also didn't coach MJ, Pippen, Kobe or Shaq at that point. Larry Brown didn't change Charlotte after winning a championship in Detroit....there's no coaching bandaid to win a championship...that takes a combination of things falling together at the same time.

What has the stability that you love gotten us? I don't know if we can do better than Stotts, I think so but I don't know. I am pretty damn sure we can use the talent we have on the roster, through trades, to put a better team on the floor but I don't know. My thing is, Olshey needs to be fired because of our constant mediocre results under his leadership, let the next guy who should be an expert make his decisions on Stotts and the roster.

 

[riverman]

What has the stability that you love gotten us? I don't know if we can do better than Stotts, I think so but I don't know. I am pretty damn sure we can use the talent we have on the roster, through trades, to put a better team on the floor but I don't know. My thing is, Olshey needs to be fired because of our constant mediocre results under his leadership, let the next guy who should be an expert make his decisions on Stotts and the roster.

It's gotten us a loyal team franchise leader..I team with a steady winning record..people who actually don't demand to be traded...some great basketball games and pumped energy into the local community...it's gotten us the reputation of being a great "basketball" destination....players develop and excell here...and in my life I've seeen us win a championship....before Stotts playoff run we went through a 14 year drought....yeah...I'm not complaining at all..I like where we're going as a franchise....don't want to be a revolving door bus station of the league with half a dozen coaches over a few years...I'll bet Ed Davis and Jake Layman would love to come back to Portland from the Wolves.

 

[blazerkor]

It's gotten us a loyal team franchise leader..I team with a steady winning record..people who actually don't demand to be traded...some great basketball games and pumped energy into the local community...it's gotten us the reputation of being a great "basketball" destination....players develop and excell here...and in my life I've seeen us win a championship....before Stotts playoff run we went through a 14 year drought....yeah...I'm not complaining at all..I like where we're going as a franchise....don't want to be a revolving door bus station of the league with half a dozen coaches over a few years...I'll bet Ed Davis and Jake Layman would love to come back to Portland from the Wolves.

I'll take this ellipsis by ellipsis. Dame did that... Dame did that... Dame did that... Dame did that... we can't get a goddamn impact free agent in here to save our lives so I don't know where you get the "great 'basketball' destination" from... I don't know what we're comparing player development to... not sure what Jack Ramsay has to do with Stotts... with Dame on the team and CJ's talent (although I think we need a better fit) I'm not impressed with anything outside of a legit run at the championship... I don't think we're going anywhere as a franchise, I think we're treading water... I don't think either PhysEd or Layman were offered contracts by Olshey but we sure could use Davis right now.

Oh and I don't really care about Stotts, I want Olshey gone and I imagine but don't care if they don't, that a new GM will want a new coach.

 

[wizenheimer]

A few pages back One Sport posted data about coaches and Stotts. It should be reposted about every third page in this thread

 

[riverman]

I'll take this ellipsis by ellipsis. Dame did that... Dame did that... Dame did that... Dame did that... we can't get a goddamn impact free agent in here to save our lives so I don't know where you get the "great 'basketball' destination" from... I don't know what we're comparing player development to... not sure what Jack Ramsay has to do with Stotts... with Dame on the team and CJ's talent (although I think we need a better fit) I'm not impressed with anything outside of a legit run at the championship... I don't think we're going anywhere as a franchise, I think we're treading water... I don't think either PhysEd or Layman were offered contracts by Olshey but we sure could use Davis right now.

Oh and I don't really care about Stotts, I want Olshey gone and I imagine but don't care if they don't, that a new GM will want a new coach.

I'm not looking for agreement....I like the way we're constructed and I think given some time we'll contend .....you don't need to agree with it....but don't water it down with Dame this, etc....I made a clear statement about why I'm not upset....go ahead and be upset...you have lots of company here with that approach. I don't see the last 7 seasons as treading water....like I said..that's just my opinion about the Blazers. I've listened to player after player commend Stotts and Portland after playing here....to me that speaks volumes. We have the same issues all small markets do as far as attracting superstar free agents

 

[blazerkor]

I'm not looking for agreement....I like the way we're constructed and I think given some time we'll contend .....you don't need to agree with it....but don't water it down with Dame this, etc....I made a clear statement about why I'm not upset....go ahead and be upset...you have lots of company here with that approach. I don't see the last 7 seasons as treading water....like I said..that's just my opinion about the Blazers. I've listened to player after player commend Stotts and Portland after playing here....to me that speaks volumes.

I totally respect that and see where you're coming from. I just think we're looking at the same thing from different angles. You're a great fan. Go Blazers!

 

[blazerkor]

A few pages back One Sport posted data about coaches and Stotts. It should be reposted about every third page in this thread

View attachment 37131

I don't think there could be a counter argument to this that would come close to disputing it. The thing I think is, who is the guy that's let this happen? Neil Olshey.

 

[Tince]

A few pages back One Sport posted data about coaches and Stotts. It should be reposted about every third page in this thread

View attachment 37131

This really is a great post, full of data.

This is an indictment of Olshey as much as Stotts. Stotts is the employee showing up to work, Olshey is the one allowing him to do so.

Reminds me of people being mad at Evan Turner for making $70m and producing at the same levels he was before the contract. Not his fault if Olshey wanted to overpay him.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

But did he REALLY coach the Lakers to a championship? I have a feeling LeBron and AD took care of that. And Lue? Really? LeBron literally grabbed the clipboard from him and drew up plays in the huddle. We see that Luke Walton could have also coached that warriors team to the ring and look at him now. Nurse I'm sure was quite grateful to have been handed Kawhi, I'm sure that helped.
This is a perfect example of coaches getting too much blame and too much credit. To think these coaches "LED" their teams to championship rings is comical.

For what it is worth, I heard the same thing about Larry Brown and Rick Carlisle when they were coaching the Pacers. They both won championships with their next team.

 

[HolyBackboard]

The defense has been a consistent issue and now the offense, when you play Stotts' style, is a burden. There's a reason why we win 6, lose 3, win 4, lose 4, and it's because we live by the 3-ball (and a lot of them are quick, contested 3's) and hav e little to no movement on offense. We do not play winning basketball. This iso-heavy bullshit is only going to get us so far.

Could we be worse off with a new coach? Absolutely.

But I do not believe that a team coached by Terry Stotts will win a championship.

I'm tired of being a "good" basketball team. We should strive to be great.

 

[royo]

To me there is no reason on earth either Stotts or Olshey should be fired. Definitely not my option but I love the stability. I've said a million times that a players coach is very different in the approach to the game than a micro managing coach is. Stotts trusts his vets to make reads, execute, know their options and stay sharp....he'll live with the results. I have no issue living with the results either. Pat Riley said no coach will win a championship again until MJ retires! ...then Pat got Lebron and Wade and Bosh and won. Phil Jackson sucked with the Knicks..he didn't make them win...he also didn't coach MJ, Pippen, Kobe or Shaq at that point. Larry Brown didn't change Charlotte after winning a championship in Detroit....there's no coaching bandaid to win a championship...that takes a combination of things falling together at the same time. I just think some fans have an inherent need to see the grass greener and really enjoy what if plug and play scenarios...which is fine. What we have in spades is a healthy lockerroom and a roster filled with respect for our coach....I can live with that too. Never really understood how emo some folks get over this stuff.

This post basically says, that is not Stott's foult we cant win, it's Lillard. Lillard should be better.

 

[riverman]

This post basically says, that is not Stott's foult we cant win, it's Lillard. Lillard should be better.

no...I believe you win and lose as a team top to bottom but I don't think a coach makes you win a championship at all...Pistons did it really without a Lebron but they were special...they had great chemistry and a great 6man...the game has changed now..it's hard to compare old stats and new ones..the game has morphed into a 3 pt shootout

 

[royo]

Good you bring Pistons. Detroit. No culture. Ben and Sheed alone would make our "good culture guys" come back to the locker room. Stotts is kids coach.

 

[riverman]

Good you bring Pistons. Detroit. No culture. Ben and Sheed alone would make our "good culture guys" come back to the locker room. Stotts is kids coach.

well....Ben, Rip Chauncey Sheed and Tayshaun were really tight friends...still are...but Larry Brown is an asshole.....Sheed loves Portland's team today...he interviewed CJ recently and talked about it. Look at the poll....most don't like Terry....I really do like him. It's all good....I'm a grandfather but I'm sure Stotts could teach me alot about basketball.

 

[royo]

well....Ben, Rip Chauncey Sheed and Tayshaun were really tight friends...still are...but Larry Brown is an asshole.....Sheed loves Portland's team today...he interviewed CJ recently and talked about it. Look at the poll....most don't like Terry....I really do like him. It's all good....I'm a grandfather but I'm sure Stotts could teach me alot about basketball.

I'm sure he could teach me too. Problem is he's on the top of professional team in the best league in the world. From what you saying he would be great to work with kids in community centre.
Sayin that, I really think, that your attitude is much better than mine. Is healthier for sure

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Safe to say that Stotts is safe as long as Olshey is being paid to do nothing for 90% of the year.

 

[blazerkor]

Safe to say that Stotts is safe as long as Olshey is being paid to do nothing for 90% of the year.

The funny thing is I don't want any of those guys. Brian Shaw is a fantastic coach with a great pedigree. He has also known and helped Dame since Dame was in high school. The only head coaching experience he has is coaching the select team in the G League but he was on the staff when the Lakers won Kobe's 4th and 5th titles and he's been associate head coach for both the Pacers and Lakers. As a player he was also on the Shaq/Kobe three-peat team.

 

[Tince]

Safe to say that Stotts is safe as long as Olshey is being paid to do nothing for 90% of the year.

Interesting to see names above Stotts who have been praised in the past by the never-Stotts crowd.

I think people feel much more strongly that Stotts should go more than they do about a quality guy to replace him.

 

[calvin natt]

The funny thing is I don't want any of those guys. Brian Shaw is a fantastic coach with a great pedigree. He has also known and helped Dame since Dame was in high school. The only head coaching experience he has is coaching the select team in the G League but he was on the staff when the Lakers won Kobe's 4th and 5th titles and he's been associate head coach for both the Pacers and Lakers. As a player he was also on the Shaq/Kobe three-peat team.

Shaw was a head coach I think in Denver.

 

[blazerkor]

Shaw was a head coach I think in Denver.

You're right. I just missed that and now I remember it. I did look up those rosters and wow that was absolutely devoid of talent. During his tenure Kenneth "Manimal" Faried was the best player across both rosters. You could make the argument that Wilson Chandler was better his first season but he was gone after that.

I mean look at those rosters. 2013-2015. Didn't make it through his 60th game that second season with absolutely no players to help him. Give him Dame and the supporting cast that the talent on this team can yield. A group that makes sense around Dame and I think we could get a chip. I think this team is just a trade and a new voice away from contention.

 

[BonesJones]

Interesting to see names above Stotts who have been praised in the past by the never-Stotts crowd.

I think people feel much more strongly that Stotts should go more than they do about a quality guy to replace him.

You realize all this says it's people aren't likely to outright bet on Neil Olshey specifically firing Stotts soon, right?