Fire Stotts Eventually

[blazerkor]

sorry, but Blazers do not have enough talent right now to win a championship....not unless about a half-dozen elite players on true contenders get injured

that's no reason not to fire Stotts or Olshey however. Masters of mediocrity shouldn't have job security

You're right but if it's the roster and I think it is (don't get me wrong Stotts saying shit like "accountability is overrated" and "study tape and play harder" doesn't sit well with me) I think it all falls squarely on Olshey. If we go out in the first two rounds or get swept out of the conference finals, Olshey should have his walking papers waiting for him at the end of the game. Then the new president of basketball operations and GM (which I hope are two different people) can decide what to do with Stotts and the roster.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

STOTTS WAS BRILLIANT TONIGHT.

 

[royo]

We can absolutely win a championship without changing roster or coaches or ownership.....it takes playing flawless two way ball and getting the roster back to full strength....all it takes is execution, ball protection, rebounding, shooting at a high clip and staying healthy....when we execute we can beat anybody....this covid shortened season with barely a training camp is not the season to bitch, moan and blow up the team...simple. We have to shoot well consistently ....every night the team that does pretty much wins the game.

IMO, you are almost right. At the same time, you, sir, are delusional. Stotts offensive plan basically goes down to shoot 3s. And even if we shoot the lights out, i think it will be enough to go through first round and win some in second maybe.
Any better team trap Dame and game is over.

I believe, if healthy, we got nice roster, although I would like to see CJ from the bench and having Rondo. Especially Rondo would be nice, bc he would hide Stotts lack of coaching like we hide Dame in defense.

Other than that, I agree, we got MVP, two all stars (if Nurk will man up) and I am pretty sure Covington will be our X factor in this playoffs. I will watch it with my heart out, as always.

 

[Tince]

Other than that, I agree, we got MVP, two all stars (if Nurk will man up) and I am pretty sure Covington will be our X factor in this playoffs. I will watch it with my heart out, as always.

Dame is awesome, but he's not an MVP until he's the MVP.

We have no other all stars. The most all-star votes Nurk got from his peers (players) he was tied with these guys:



You want Nurk and CJ to be your 3rd and 4th best players if you want to build a championship roster. We need a two way, above average height, play making all-star as our 2nd best player to enter championship territory.

 

[RoseCityRebel]

Any better team trap Dame and game is over.

Yeah, obviously that’s the way it works. Dame carries a load heavier than everyone else in the league now other than Giannis and LeBron, with Embiid tied with Lillard IMO.

Better teams win 7 game series, especially as the playoff rounds advance.

Just enjoy the ride of watching the first Hall of Fame Blazer player in his prime since Clyde Drexler. This board seems to gravitate toward the toxic negativity from the few posters who dominate it, but don’t let that get you down. It’s fun to watch!

 

[royo]

Dame is awesome, but he's not an MVP until he's the MVP.

We have no other all stars. The most all-star votes Nurk got from his peers (players) he was tied with these guys:

View attachment 37347

You want Nurk and CJ to be your 3rd and 4th best players if you want to build a championship roster. We need a two way, above average height, play making all-star as our 2nd best player to enter championship territory.

As I said, I think, if Nurk man up, he's all star and CJ skills are easy above average. We need Rondo or a coach. Your idea of Ben Simmons is nice, but I'm talkin bout something we can actually do (apart of I didn't check how to land Rondo

 

[kjironman1]

I hate Stotts so much. As long as he is coach we will never be even average defensively. 90% of all our games come down to are we gonna shoot 40% from 3 tonight, cause if not we are gonna lose. Plus how is it after 4 seasons we still haven’t figured out a way to take advantage of Dame being doubled for an entire game? Stotts is horrible.

Except they just shot 28.6% from three and won. Pretty sure if they shoot 36% consistently they win most of their games.

 

[kjironman1]

Wow?
Trying to say Lillard is an MVP (He isn't but might be) might get it if they win enough games.
Trying to say CJ is an All Star ( He never has been) but he could be if he stays healthy and plays really really well.
Trying to say Nurkic is an All Star ( Nowhere near yet) but if he plays really well he could be (Well ... Sure).

Just to try to make your position that the "coach sucks" look better seems a bit delusional?

By the way losing those two to injury is no excuse for losing because the coach sucks but they are All Star talent.

I think we left off Zach Collins? Pretty sure if he plays well enough and the team wins enough games he too could be an All Star. (Why not? It worked with Nurk and CJ)

91 pages and still going!

 

[Tince]

Wow?
Trying to say Lillard is an MVP (He isn't but might be) might get it if they win enough games.
Trying to say CJ is an All Star ( He never has been) but he could be if he stays healthy and plays really really well.
Trying to say Nurkic is an All Star ( Nowhere near yet) but if he plays really well he could be (Well ... Sure).

Just to try to make your position that the "coach sucks" look better seems a bit delusional?

By the way losing those two to injury is no excuse for losing because the coach sucks but they are All Star talent.

I think we left off Zach Collins? Pretty sure if he plays well enough and the team wins enough games he too could be an All Star. (Why not? It worked with Nurk and CJ)

91 pages and still going!

I believe the "injuries are no excuse" narrative was backed up by saying there isn't much drop off between CJ & Trent and Nurk & Kanter. So actually, that means we basically have 5 all-stars, including an MVP on our roster, right?

 

[kjironman1]

I believe the "injuries are no excuse" narrative was backed up by saying there isn't much drop off between CJ & Trent and Nurk & Kanter. So actually, that means we basically have 5 all-stars, including an MVP on our roster, right?

Delusional is as Delusional does?

 

[royo]

CJ is an all star, can play like one in playoffs. No argument about it. Nurk can as well.

 

[royo]

And from the other side, there are people that say we got really poor roster, but Stotts constantly overachieving as he is top 5 in the league. And easy.

 

[Tince]

CJ is an all star, can play like one in playoffs. No argument about it. Nurk can as well.

How a player performs on their best nights is not an indicator of how good a player is.

You could take 4-5 players on any roster, look at their best nights, and say they can play like an all-star. Putting it together over an entire season, against many defenses and gameplans, while staying healthy; that's what makes you an all-star. Look at Dame last night, he did not play near his best game, but found a way to still make a massive impact. That's an all-star!

You saying "CJ is an all-star" is false. He's played 8 seasons and has 0 all-star appearances, 0 all-nba selections, and only 1 NBA player of the week selections. This isn't to say CJ is hot garage like some people think.

 

[Tince]

And from the other side, there are people that say we got really poor roster, but Stotts constantly overachieving as he is top 5 in the league. And easy.

Using your logic, on his best coaching nights, he's a top 5 coach, so therefore, he's a top 5 coach. We'll just overlook the nights he has bottom 5 gameplans. Is that how it works?

I don't think he's a top 5 coach for the record!

 

[kjironman1]

I don't think he's a top 5 coach for the record!

Glad you made that clear. You would have been crucified in this place.

For the record. Only 9 people believe he is a top 5 coach but if you look at the poll above a bunch think he is worthy of being considered in the top 20 coach.

 

[royo]

Using your logic, on his best coaching nights, he's a top 5 coach, so therefore, he's a top 5 coach. We'll just overlook the nights he has bottom 5 gameplans. Is that how it works?

I don't think he's a top 5 coach for the record!

My logic is what I see. CJ can throw any team out the window any give night. His bb skills are mad. That's why I would gladly give him his own team. He is an all star and, you know that all star voting is shhhh. As for Stotts I would like to see as many games won by his genius tactic as games that CJ won for us.

 

[Scalma]

My logic is what I see. CJ can throw any team out the window any give night. His bb skills are mad. That's why I would gladly give him his own team. He is an all star and, you know that all star voting is shhhh. As for Stotts I would like to see as many games won by his genius tactic as games that CJ won for us.

CJ has never had an all star caliber season. A lot of guys average 20ppg. Doesn’t make them all stars.

 

[hoopsjock]

While I don't totally see it the way you do, I understand the logic.

How many years with a new coach, and with Dame aging, would you be ok waiting until you're ready to get rid of the GM who can't put together a championship roster? I think it would be foolish to wait until Dame is 35 to attempt to put a legit championship roster around him.

I don't always agree with Olshey's moves but since Paul Allen passed away I think he's been pretty good. I wasn't opposed to making a move for Harden but when I saw what the Nets gave up I was glad the Blazers didn't pay that price. An example from right now would be a player like Vucevic who could be on the trade block. The Blazers could maybe acquire him to say "we have another All-Star" but I don't think the amount we'd have to give up for him necessarily makes us better overall. I also value draft picks more than most because there is always a chance to hit a home run. So I have no problem swinging for the fences with someone like Ant, even if it doesn't work out.

I wish Olshey used the two-way spots to try and find some diamonds in the rough instead of wasting a spot on Dame's cousin but I don't think he's incapable of building a championship roster. I don't believe Stotts is even close to being a championship level head coach. I also don't think it's fair that Stotts gets the injury pass but Olshey doesn't seem to get that same excuse.

 

[Tince]

My logic is what I see. CJ can throw any team out the window any give night. His bb skills are mad. That's why I would gladly give him his own team. He is an all star and, you know that all star voting is shhhh. As for Stotts I would like to see as many games won by his genius tactic as games that CJ won for us.

1. How would you define this? Seems nearly impossible unless we want to use the dreaded "eye test". In this case, can we use my "eye test"or is mine the only biased one here?
2. In general, I would always side that the player(s) on a roster be credited as the reason the team won vs a coach. This has been my continued stance. Hence why Golden State with 1-2 all-stars has seen a significant dropoff in success from when they had 3-4 despite having the same coach/schemes.

 

[Tince]

I don't always agree with Olshey's moves but since Paul Allen passed away I think he's been pretty good. I wasn't opposed to making a move for Harden but when I saw what the Nets gave up I was glad the Blazers didn't pay that price. An example from right now would be a player like Vucevic who could be on the trade block. The Blazers could maybe acquire him to say "we have another All-Star" but I don't think the amount we'd have to give up for him necessarily makes us better overall. I also value draft picks more than most because there is always a chance to hit a home run. So I have no problem swinging for the fences with someone like Ant, even if it doesn't work out.

I wish Olshey used the two-way spots to try and find some diamonds in the rough instead of wasting a spot on Dame's cousin but I don't think he's incapable of building a championship roster. I don't believe Stotts is even close to being a championship level head coach. I also don't think it's fair that Stotts gets the injury pass but Olshey doesn't seem to get that same excuse.

Don't agree with everything in this post, but I really like how you put it all together; well thought out for sure!

Hypotheical question: Say Stotts gets fired this summer and Olshey hires a coach at the expected quality level you'd expect of Olshey. What would you guess we end up doing in the playoffs next season with everything else being equal (roster turnovers, injures, etc). There is no wrong answer, I'm genuinely curious in your personal opinion, fully knowing it's just a guess.

 

[royo]

CJ has never had an all star caliber season. A lot of guys average 20ppg. Doesn’t make them all stars.

It's playoffs that counts.

 

[Scalma]

It's playoffs that counts.

his career PER in the playoffs is 15.8. Last year it was below 15. That’s pretty average, maybe slightly above. Not really an all star.

 

[hoopsjock]

Don't agree with everything in this post, but I really like how you put it all together; well thought out for sure!

Hypotheical question: Say Stotts gets fired this summer and Olshey hires a coach at the expected quality level you'd expect of Olshey. What would you guess we end up doing in the playoffs next season with everything else being equal (roster turnovers, injures, etc). There is no wrong answer, I'm genuinely curious in your personal opinion, fully knowing it's just a guess.

There's no wrong answer because that's an impossible question not knowing what that "roster turnover" is.

I'll put it this way. This roster is capable of winning playoff series with bad coaching. It's already happened several times, IMO. If we lose in the playoffs but I feel like the coach had good game plans and adjustments throughout the series then I will for sure question the makeup of the roster.

 

[blazerkor]

I don't always agree with Olshey's moves but since Paul Allen passed away I think he's been pretty good. I wasn't opposed to making a move for Harden but when I saw what the Nets gave up I was glad the Blazers didn't pay that price. An example from right now would be a player like Vucevic who could be on the trade block. The Blazers could maybe acquire him to say "we have another All-Star" but I don't think the amount we'd have to give up for him necessarily makes us better overall. I also value draft picks more than most because there is always a chance to hit a home run. So I have no problem swinging for the fences with someone like Ant, even if it doesn't work out.

I wish Olshey used the two-way spots to try and find some diamonds in the rough instead of wasting a spot on Dame's cousin but I don't think he's incapable of building a championship roster. I don't believe Stotts is even close to being a championship level head coach. I also don't think it's fair that Stotts gets the injury pass but Olshey doesn't seem to get that same excuse.

Hell, Olshey could just use the open roster spot we have to sign literally any player available for the vet min at this point and not go into the luxury tax. The fact that he hasn't got us help in the middle is inexcusable. Pretty good isn't enough. Olshey hasn't put us in a position that justifies his tenure. Whether you think that means firing Stotts sooner or not showing stubborn and unprofessional loyalties to players, he hasn't done an acceptable job. The fact is that we have a guy that is arguably the best player in the league when both game and leadership are taken into consideration and Olshey has got some talent around him but either the wrong talent or coaching. Both fall at Olshey's feet.

If you think the Blazers have taken full advantage of our time with Dame then Olshey has done a good job. If you don't, ten years is too long to wait. The good news is that CJ and Nurk should be ready and integrated by the playoffs so if we don't go on a serious run, Olshey should be gone. He might not be because Jody isn't trying to rock the boat and Olshey is a conman but he should be.

 

[blazerkor]

It's playoffs that counts.

CJ isn't that great in the playoffs and every team we face has the strategy to sell out on Dame and see if CJ can beat them in a four on five situation. I think an all star would slay teams that did that to the point that teams would stop doing it.

 

[hoopsjock]

Hell, Olshey could just use the open roster spot we have to sign literally any player available for the vet min at this point and not go into the luxury tax. The fact that he hasn't got us help in the middle is inexcusable. Pretty good isn't enough. Olshey hasn't put us in a position that justifies his tenure. Whether you think that means firing Stotts sooner or not showing stubborn and unprofessional loyalties to players, he hasn't done an acceptable job. The fact is that we have a guy that is arguably the best player in the league when both game and leadership are taken into consideration and Olshey has got some talent around him but either the wrong talent or coaching. Both fall at Olshey's feet.

If you think the Blazers have taken full advantage of our time with Dame then Olshey has done a good job. If you don't, ten years is too long to wait. The good news is that CJ and Nurk should be ready and integrated by the playoffs so if we don't go on a serious run, Olshey should be gone. He might not be because Jody isn't trying to rock the boat and Olshey is a conman but he should be.

He's obviously waiting for the buyout market, so I'll reserve judgment on that until I see if waiting resulted in a better player or now.

To be fair though, until he trades CJ like you've wanted for 5 years, you're not gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[blazerkor]

He's obviously waiting for the buyout market, so I'll reserve judgment on that until I see if waiting resulted in a better player or now.

To be fair though, until he trades CJ like you've wanted for 5 years, you're not gonna give him the benefit of the doubt.

Two word... ten day. It's inexcusable.

You aren't exactly right, until CJ proves me wrong and shows that he complements Dame offensively and can be a functional defensive back court with Dame, you're right I won't give the guy who said that CJ was untouchable the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Tince]

There's no wrong answer because that's an impossible question not knowing what that "roster turnover" is.

I'll put it this way. This roster is capable of winning playoff series with bad coaching. It's already happened several times, IMO. If we lose in the playoffs but I feel like the coach had good game plans and adjustments throughout the series then I will for sure question the makeup of the roster.

Agreed there is no wrong answer. My hypothetical allowes you to base your assuptions off what you would consider normal/expected roster turnover, FA signings, and injuries given our current situation.

I'm trying to figure out how different of an outcome you would expect next year with a new coach.

 

[Tince]

CJ isn't that great in the playoffs and every team we face has the strategy to sell out on Dame and see if CJ can beat them in a four on five situation. I think an all star would slay teams that did that to the point that teams would stop doing it.

I'll take it a step further. If teams thought CJ was a legit all-star, they wouldn't sell out on Dame the way they do. That's the entire reason we need an actual 2nd all-star, that isn't short!

 

[Natebishop3]

I'll take it a step further. If teams thought CJ was a legit all-star, they wouldn't sell out on Dame the way they do. That's the entire reason we need an actual 2nd all-star, that isn't short!

I kinda wonder if teams figure CJ is going to get his but for the most part he's not going to completely burn you. Dame on the other hand can go off for 50 if you ignore him or single cover him. CJ is historically so streaky that teams can gamble that he won't completely punish them if they single cover him. I kind of also wonder if they figure doubling is a waste of time because CJ is extremely difficult to guard when he's in the groove.