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maxiep said:
My contention has been that he's not injury prone, that it's just been bad luck. The injuries haven't been the same every time, like Walton's or Bowie's. A torn cartilage is nothing. The cure--microfracture--is something, however. He rolled an ankle just like tons of other players do. As for his latest, well, that was a bitch. That being said, he's far from done. Camby and Przybilla are both players who missed huge chunks of time when they were young. GO will be fine.
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BUT what about the origin of the injuries? He needed MF surgery because he hurt himself either playing Dance Dance Revolution, Getting Up Off His Couch, or both. That seems to suggest a fragility. And what about the most recent injury? He jumps, comes down, and that's it? Out for the season? No contact with any other player? What's to stop that from happening again?
 
oldmangrouch said:
No, but there are players available in the draft who could be that good. Thompson would just be a bonus.
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your claim was that this was Bowie for Buck part two. Though it seems silly like most of your Greg bashing I'm able to determine who is your Sam here, but who your Buck Williams is truly baffles me. Who is the rugged multilple time All Star PF who fits this roster like pulling the last card an inside straight? This Buck Williams type is a mystery player/draft pick who you won't name???

Thompson has had ample opportunity on the Kings to show what sort of a blah Big he is. We seem to have as different memories of Buck as we do of what constitutes a bonus.

STOMP
 
KingSpeed said:
BUT what about the origin of the injuries? He needed MF surgery because he hurt himself either playing Dance Dance Revolution, Getting Up Off His Couch, or both. That seems to suggest a fragility. And what about the most recent injury? He jumps, comes down, and that's it? Out for the season? No contact with any other player? What's to stop that from happening again?
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nothing. Everyone's health hangs in a tenuous balance and no one's is guaranteed.

I've asked several times for the posters who believe Oden is yet another Mr. Glass to compile a list of the many star type players who've had their careers derailed by broken bones and injuries that weren't thought to have serious longterm effects. I'll start it for you...
1. Sam Bowie 2? 3? 4? 5?

of course you won't come up with #2-5 because there are no other examples of this to site... which means it very rare/unlikely to apply to 22 year old GO or anyone. Siting the dumbest of internet rumors as the basis of today's :ohno: dance speaks for itself

STOMP
 
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STOMP said:
your claim was that this was Bowie for Buck part two. Though it seems silly like most of your Greg bashing I'm able to determine who is your Sam here, but who your Buck Williams is truly baffles me. Who is the rugged multilple time All Star PF who fits this roster like pulling the last card an inside straight? This Buck Williams type is a mystery player/draft pick who you won't name???

Thompson has had ample opportunity on the Kings to show what sort of a blah Big he is. We seem to have as different memories of Buck as we do of what constitutes a bonus.

STOMP
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Fine, you win. There is no one in this year's draft worth going after.

What's it matter anyway? As long as Nate is running his "10 points a quarter" offense, who the team puts on the court is pretty much irrelevant.
 
bbc23 said:
Oden has missed 82-21-61(he isn't coming back this season) along with HAVING THE INJURY CONCERNS IN HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE
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He had a broken wrist in college so injuries weren't just a concern there.

I have seen people allude to injury problems Oden had in high school but there is never a single link to back up the claim. Everything I have read has said he had a minor surgery in Junior High then no injury troubles at all until college. If you have something different I would love to read it.
 
Basically in my experience players who tend to get hurt, tend to get hurt a lot, not matter if it is the same injury or not. It is this simple: Hurt a lot? Yes or No.
 
hasoos said:
Basically in my experience players who tend to get hurt, tend to get hurt a lot, not matter if it is the same injury or not. It is this simple: Hurt a lot? Yes or No.
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I think along the same lines. Looking to Oden's future health without visiting his past record is something that I can't do. I imagine it will take me years of watching a healthy Oden before I don't think that he could go down with an injury at any random moment.
 
BGrantFan said:
I think along the same lines. Looking to Oden's future health without visiting his past record is something that I can't do. I imagine it will take me years of watching a healthy Oden before I don't think that he could go down with an injury at any random moment.
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I still think the same thing every time I watch Grant Hill or Zidrunas Ilgauskus play. They play now, but they don't play like they did back before all the injuries. But even today, I watch them play, and I expect them to go down with an injury.
 
LittleAlex said:
Ah ok. That did happen in college though and not high school so my question still stands.
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I asked the same question last night and didn't get an answer.

Oden's wrist injury caused him to miss ZERO high school games and SEVEN college games.

Between his high school team and AAU ball, Oden was playing year round for four years with no significant injuries that caused him to miss games. Yet, the revisionist history is now that "there were injury concerns about him in high school". Well, there were no injuries. So, I'm not sure why anyone would be concerned.

BNM
 
KingSpeed said:
BUT what about the origin of the injuries? He needed MF surgery because he hurt himself either playing Dance Dance Revolution, Getting Up Off His Couch, or both. That seems to suggest a fragility. And what about the most recent injury? He jumps, comes down, and that's it? Out for the season? No contact with any other player? What's to stop that from happening again?
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I tore my anterior meniscus cartilage getting up off the ground. Sometimes your knee just moves in an odd way.

As for his current injury, generally that's how the patella gets fractured. I know it sounds odd, but the quadriceps contract sending force through the quad tendon splitting the patella. A lot of times, the patella tendon will go too. That's what happened to Joel. No one touched him. Barkley's and Mutombo's career ended from their quad tendons going. No one touched them, they just jumped. Hell, Griffin broke his kneecap just from landing awkwardly; he didn't fall on it.

I can't assuage your fears about GO getting injured again. That's up to you.
 
hasoos said:
I still think the same thing every time I watch Grant Hill or Zidrunas Ilgauskus play. They play now, but they don't play like they did back before all the injuries.
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You saw Big Z play before the injuries? Dude was drafted with a broken foot (that I recall he'd rebroken) and missed his entire rookie season. Anyhoo, those two are 37 and 34 respectively... I'm guessing that might have something to do with them not playing like they did back in their day.
But even today, I watch them play, and I expect them to go down with an injury.
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yet they're playing at an age where most NBA players are retired. These guy are actually excellent counter examples to what you're trying to prove.

STOMP
 
hasoos said:
I would take Cousins over him any day of the week.
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The reason why I go with Aldrich is because of basketball IQ and defense. Cousins also has some major red flags with some of his antics. He's a bit on the crazy side. But the guy is a serious baller. He's Al Jefferson at 6'11"

[video=youtube;giSpA4HS-SM]
 
STOMP said:
yet they're playing at an age where most NBA players are retired. These guy are actually excellent counter examples to what you're trying to prove.

STOMP
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Grant Hill was an elite player before his injuries. He's a 15 PER player post-injuries. If Oden is going to be mediocre once he gets healthy, then it may be time to cut bait. Plus, Ilgauskas isn't really an inside player. His best offense is taking an open 15' set shot. He was never close to being the athlete that Oden is/was.
 
BGrantFan said:
Grant Hill was an elite player before his injuries. He's a 15 PER player post-injuries. If Oden is going to be mediocre once he gets healthy, then it may be time to cut bait. Plus, Ilgauskas isn't really an inside player. His best offense is taking an open 15' set shot. He was never close to being the athlete that Oden is/was.
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And Oden was a 23.4 player after his microfracture surgery - a much more seriois injury than his current broken knee cap. And, that was at 21 with less than a year's worth of NBA playing experience. He was among the league leaders in FG%, TRB%, BLK% and PER, Do you really think he's already peaked and this latest injury will turn him from a 23.4 PER dominant force to a 15 PER also ran at the age of 22?

BNM
 
BGrantFan said:
Grant Hill was an elite player before his injuries. He's a 15 PER player post-injuries.
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http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hillgr01.html

dude is 37 years old. It's my strong impression that most every player's production tails off when they're into their late 30s. That he's still playing (let alone starting at the ultra athletic SF spot) is very much against the odds for a guy of his age... is there an older starter in the league that didn't get their by default (like Juwan)?

STOMP
 
Fez "The Situation" Bush said:
The reason why I go with Aldrich is because of basketball IQ and defense. Cousins also has some major red flags with some of his antics. He's a bit on the crazy side. But the guy is a serious baller. He's Al Jefferson at 6'11"

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I actually think those crazy things and his on the edge of dirty play are more of a reason to get him. You are either a team that has those qualities, or a team that is victimized by them. Dennis Rodman was fully crazy and a very dirty player. But he won a hell of a lot of rings because that was his edge on the court.
 
Boob-No-More said:
And Oden was a 23.4 player after his microfracture surgery - a much more seriois injury than his current broken knee cap. And, that was at 21 with less than a year's worth of NBA playing experience. He was among the league leaders in FG%, TRB%, BLK% and PER, Do you really think he's already peaked and this latest injury will turn him from a 23.4 PER dominant force to a 15 PER also ran at the age of 22?

BNM
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Did I ever say that Oden had peaked, or that he will become a 15 PER player at the age of 22? I want to keep the guy and I have posted that since my time here, but Grant Hill or Ilguaskas aren't exactly great examples for keeping Oden, just as they aren't good example for trading Oden.
 
Fez "The Situation" Bush said:
The reason why I go with Aldrich is because of basketball IQ and defense. Cousins also has some major red flags with some of his antics. He's a bit on the crazy side. But the guy is a serious baller. He's Al Jefferson at 6'11"

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I wouldn't say that was dirty play. The guy threw a knee at him, so he decided to give him a forearm shiver. I would have done the same thing in that situation.
 
BGrantFan said:
Did I ever say that Oden had peaked, or that he will become a 15 PER player at the age of 22? I want to keep the guy and I have posted that since my time here, but Grant Hill or Ilguaskas aren't exactly great examples for keeping Oden, just as they aren't good example for trading Oden.
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I think that most of the teams that deal with injured players are hardest hit by the void they create, not necessarily the statistics, and in that fashion, they are actually very good examples as for argument to trade him away. Both of them caused their teams who were depending on them to carry a big part of the load, to suffer for years with them mostly out of the lineup due to injury.
 
BGrantFan said:
Did I ever say that Oden had peaked, or that he will become a 15 PER player at the age of 22? I want to keep the guy and I have posted that since my time here, but Grant Hill or Ilguaskas aren't exactly great examples for keeping Oden, just as they aren't good example for trading Oden.
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Dude, read what you wrote:

"Grant Hill was an elite player before his injuries. He's a 15 PER player post-injuries. If Oden is going to be mediocre once he gets healthy, then it may be time to cut bait.

That's EXACTLY what I responded to.

BNM
 
hasoos said:
I think that most of the teams that deal with injured players are hardest hit by the void they create, not necessarily the statistics, and in that fashion, they are actually very good examples as for argument to trade him away. Both of them caused their teams who were depending on them to carry a big part of the load, to suffer for years with them mostly out of the lineup due to injury.
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That's a logical point. My take on the purpose of this thread was whether or not waiting for Oden is in the best interest of the franchise. If he gets another major injury, his trade value will be near zilch. It's interesting to think about, and as I posted earlier in this thread, part of m wonders if the Blazers are discussing different options in hushed tones.
 
BGrantFan said:
Did I ever say that Oden had peaked, or that he will become a 15 PER player at the age of 22?
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you've suggested that Oden's best days athletically may be behind him, that he might be just mediocre once he returns... very little in the history of hoops supports these possibilities being what we're likely to see transpire.
Grant Hill or Ilguaskas aren't exactly great examples for keeping Oden, just as they aren't good example for trading Oden.
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I don't see why they aren't good examples of how broken bones do heal and guys can return to the pounding of hoops. They are much older so expectations for their production should be lowered accordingly, but certainly they had the exact same sort of critics who didn't believe that they would ever make it back like we hear from Greg's detractors on a daily basis. Since GO will be 23 next season and this is something he's expected to make it fully back from, the projections for his production should still be on the rise.

STOMP
 
A little late to the discussion, but here's my take on this "rumor" (use the word extremely loosely as I agree that it'd never happen in a million years.)

There are only 2 scenarios where the Blazers willingly make this trade, and as you'll see, both involve extremely unlikely circumstances AND are highly unlikely that Sacramento would also agree to them.

Agreeable Scenario #1: The Blazers would agree to this trade if they somehow KNEW, beyond ALL REASONABLE DOUBT that G.O.'s career will never be the same and that he is, in FACT, "injury prone". If you could somehow show me irrefutible PROOF that he'll never reach any sort of heights that we all hoped he'd achieve, then yes, they'd move on and take what they can get for him. This deal might not be the ideal time to "sell high" but under this scenario, it's probably not the worst offer we'd recieve either.

Problem #1: Why the hell would Sacto want busted goods in Greg?
Problem #2: Doctors are routinely baffled by people who wake up from multiple year comas after being thought to be "lost causes", paralyzed people, told they'll never walk again not only walk but some have even returned to competition. The body is a mystery that even at our top levels of science still does not fully understand. There is absolutely ZERO way that anyone could tell you, with 100% unyielding certainty (with the obvious exception of Greg being deciest) that he wouldn't be able to return to play acceptable basketball.

Agreeable Scenario #2: Sacto wins the lottery and still wants to trade Thompson and the pick for G.O.

In this scenario, the Blazers get John Wall, probably the most NBA ready talent (at a position of need noless) since Lebron, and who knows before him. Wall, like GO could very well be a crutial piece to title runs in our future. Additionally, his presence would make players like Bayless, Rudy, Miller, etc. more expendable, which means that we'd be able to use our depth and talent to return another big man -- one who hopefully WON'T be "injury prone".

Problem w/ this trade is that I still can't see how or why Sacto wouldn't want Wall. Seems like he and Ty Evans would work very well together in a backcourt.

Those are the absolutely ONLY ways I'd do this specific scenario. As I said, ain't gonna happen...
 
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