For anyone thinking Israel is showing restraint and only targeting Hamas

[Denny Crane]

Egypt has been part of the embargo. It's not just Israel.

 

[MarAzul]

Denny, up until 2005, Israel maintained illegal Jewish colonies in the Gaza Strip as well. It has since disbanded these colonies and thus claims it’s no longer occupying the Gaza strip. Israel is alone in holding this deceptive view; the UN, US State Department, global NGO’s and legal scholars all consider Gaza a part of the Occupied Palestinian Territories because Israel exercises complete military control over it. They still don't allow for certain medications, foods, materials for infrastructure to get into the territory.

Yeah, well I suppose it was a mistake for Israel to give up the Gaza strip. Heck, look at what it has become, a rocket launch site. I should think they ought to take it back now.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Yeah, well I suppose it was a mistake for Israel to give up the Gaza strip. Heck, look at what it has become, a rocket launch site. I should think they ought to take it back now.

Umm, anyone with any knowledge about Gaza knows it wasn't really "given up."

Again, the UN, US State Department, global NGO’s and legal scholars all consider Gaza a part of the Occupied Palestinian Territories because Israel exercises complete military control over it.

Which means, Israel has blocked off air, land and water access to the Strip — nothing goes in, nothing comes out. This tiny strip of land is home to some 1.7 million people; due to its cage-like setup, Gaza has aptly been described as the ‘world’s largest open air prison.’

The siege has stifled Gaza’s economy, destroyed its infrastructure and has cut off access to some of the most basic amenities needed to live a dignified life. Today, almost 80 per cent of Gazans are dependent on aid as a result of the blockade. The UN has warned Gaza will be inhospitable by 2020 if the siege continues.

Hamas is a red herring. This has been going on for 50 plus years. Even some within the Israeli military are saying that those three teenagers were likely not taken by Hamas.

Please watch the video in the second link.

 

[MarAzul]

Umm, anyone with any knowledge about Gaza knows it wasn't really "given up."

Again, the UN, US State Department, global NGO’s and legal scholars all consider Gaza a part of the Occupied Palestinian Territories because Israel exercises complete military control over it.

Which means, Israel has blocked off air, land and water access to the Strip — nothing goes in, nothing comes out. This tiny strip of land is home to some 1.7 million people; due to its cage-like setup, Gaza has aptly been described as the ‘world’s largest open air prison.’

The siege has stifled Gaza’s economy, destroyed its infrastructure and has cut off access to some of the most basic amenities needed to live a dignified life. Today, almost 80 per cent of Gazans are dependent on aid as a result of the blockade. The UN has warned Gaza will be inhospitable by 2020 if the siege continues.

Hamas is a red herring. This has been going on for 50 plus years. Even some within the Israeli military are saying that those three teenagers were likely not taken by Hamas.

Please watch the video in the second link.

Do you mean those rocket being fire out of Gaza are not coming from Gaza? It ain't happening?

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Do you mean those rocket being fire out of Gaza are not coming from Gaza? It ain't happening?

No one has said that, but it's very disingenuous to reduce this issue to the war going on now. This has been going on for 50+ years. With or without the rocket fire from Gaza.

 

[Denny Crane]

Funny how the two countries (EGYPT also) that border Gaza participate in the "siege."

Seems the Egyptians don't care for terrorists either.

 

[MarAzul]

No one has said that, but it's very disingenuous to reduce this issue to the war going on now. This has been going on for 50+ years. With or without the rocket fire from Gaza.

Actually it is 66 years now. Every few year all through the 66 years, they start shooting at the Israels. It's like being attacked by Wasps repeatedly, I would get pissed and wipe out the nest. I wonder how long the Israels will put up with repeat repeat repeat?

 

[jlprk]

Hamas is a red herring. This has been going on for 50 plus years. Even some within the Israeli military are saying that those three teenagers were likely not taken by Hamas.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html

 

[MarAzul]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2014/07/hamas-didnt-kidnap-the-israeli-teens-after-all.html

Ah! They were just Palestines, not Hamas. That's encouraging. errr who' touching of the rockets?

 

[jlprk]

Ah! They were just Palestines, not Hamas. That's encouraging. errr who' touching of the rockets?

I didn't know you're a Conscientious Objector. So you think that when mobs kill people all around you, you shouldn't defend yourself. That's cool.

Did they make you do alternative work like putting out fires?

 

[Denny Crane]

MLK Jr. won his civil right battle through peaceful means.

Hamas and "Palestinians" not so much.

 

[jlprk]

Gotta admire those pacifist Israelis, winning back their white country after the Arabs stole it so long ago.

 

[Minstrel]

MLK Jr. won his civil right battle through peaceful means.

Hamas and "Palestinians" not so much.

"American" revolution, not so much either.

 

[oldguy]

The attacks, widely condemned for targeting civilians, have been described as terrorism by United Nations, European Union and Israeli officials, and are defined as war crimes by human rights groups Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch. Indiscriminate attacks on civilians and civilian structures that do not discriminate between civilians and military targets are illegal under international law.[24][25]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel

I have zero patience for the targeting of civilians to make a political statement.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu discussed the current military crisis between Israel and Palestine and said, "The difference between us, we are using missile defense to protect our civilians, and they're using their civilians to protect their missiles."

When you defend your military installations by surrounding them with civilians, there WILL be civilian casualties when your enemy responds to your attacks. So...again, it seems pretty disingenuous for Hamas to grab up dead/injured children to parade in front of the cameras when they orchestrated the debacle by purposely targeting Israeli civilians. Imo, the sooner the Palestinians realize that they will never get sympathy for killing civilians, the better for them.

As far as the biggest open air prison comment, the Israeli's built the barrier around Gaza and the West Bank because they were tired of having Palestinians, wearing explosive vests, turn their women and children into pink mist at their bus stops, train stations and gathering places. The fence seems to be helping, so Hamas uses rockets instead of suicide murderers to carry out their mission of killing Israeli civilians.

According to statistics published by the Israeli government, between 2000 and July 2003, when the "first continuous segment" of the barrier was built, 73 Palestinian suicide bombings were carried out from the West Bank, killing 293 Israelis and injuring over 1,900. However, from August 2003 to the end of 2006, only 12 attacks were carried out, killing 64 Israelis and wounding 445.[7] Supporters argue that this is indicative of the barrier being effective in preventing such attacks.[8]

I feel for the Palestinian people, because I don't believe most of them support the rocket attacks on Israel, or murdering innocents with explosive vests. But on the other hand, they voted Hamas into power. Elections have consequences.

Here's hoping the current cease-fire will hold.

Go Blazers

 

[Sinobas]

If Israel has such a great missile defense system, why does it have to drop bombs on Gaza? They should definitely blow up the tunnels. But the bombing is over-kill, given that it is killing children.

The Palestinians have really dug their own pit though. I know they are in a shit situation, and they got a raw deal with the creation of the Israellli state. But Israel exists now, and they are not going away. The Palestinians situation won't improve until they drop their terrorist ideals and concentrate on building up their own nation.

The world wants to help them, they send them aid and they use it for terrorist activities.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Ah! They were just Palestines, not Hamas. That's encouraging. errr who' touching of the rockets?

Ah, stop with the false outrage. Nobody likes 3 teenagers being killed whether they're Israeli or Palestinian, but where's your outrage when Palestinians civilians are murdered at the hands of the Israeli government? United Nations stats suggest the death rate of Palestinians to Israelis even before this "war" is at least 4 to 1.

The point is still missed. Israeli government says Hamas did something and all of our media runs with it. If they say Hamas is using civilians as human shields, they repeat it. The American media is bought and paid for by the Israeli/Jewish lobby in this country and we can't seem to get any objective news on this. This goes far beyond this war and the question is why.

It's because the Israelis restrict the flow of materials, food, water and other necessities into the country. They also continue to build illegal settlements making more and more Palestinians homeless each and everyday.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Funny how the two countries (EGYPT also) that border Gaza participate in the "siege."

Seems the Egyptians don't care for terrorists either.

Not funny. Just politics. Many of the mid-east countries aren't stepping in to help Gaza. Why? Well, America has a long history of buying their governments. I don't think you should hold up Egypt as some authority figure on anything right now. Not a good idea...

 

[Sheldon Shape]

MLK Jr. won his civil right battle through peaceful means.

Hamas and "Palestinians" not so much.

America won its civil war with... war. I don't know how you can blame the oppressed for lashing out against its oppressor. There's a reason why Nelson Mandela supported the Palestinian cause, but that doesn't fit into the narrative of why he was such a great man.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

The Palestinians have really dug their own pit though. I know they are in a shit situation, and they got a raw deal with the creation of the Israellli state. But Israel exists now, and they are not going away. The Palestinians situation won't improve until they drop their terrorist ideals and concentrate on building up their own nation.

Because of Israel's military control, it is extremely difficult to get materials into the territory to build. That's one of the issues. They are smothering Gaza so that it cannot prosper. They limit the amount of water getting into Gaza - they actually steal much of Gaza's water supply according to the UN. They limit the amount of food and medication as well.

Google the list of items you can't bring into Gaza. It's a very very long list that has nothing to do with terrorism. I believe last I checked, Nutmeg and Notebook paper was still illegal.

 

[Denny Crane]

"American" revolution, not so much either.

Terrorist activity is making their situation worse.

There wouldn't be a siege if they weren't targeting Egyptian civilians and Israeli citizens.

I'm pretty sure Washington and his troops targeted the guys in the red coats.

I'm also pretty sure that civil disobedience garners more sympathy than terrorism.

 

[Denny Crane]

Not funny. Just politics. Many of the mid-east countries aren't stepping in to help Gaza. Why? Well, America has a long history of buying their governments. I don't think you should hold up Egypt as some authority figure on anything right now. Not a good idea...

Egypt shares a border with Gaza. The terrorists are their problem, too.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4401/egypt-israel-hamas

 

[MarAzul]

United Nations stats suggest the death rate of Palestinians to Israelis even before this "war" is at least 4 to 1.

4 to 1? I suppose if the Israels can manage it, they will extend this to 10-1. They probably learn something new, each time the Palestinians attack. Hell, I would run them clear out of Gaza this time if it were me, but only those that can move fast enough due South. South of Al Aqabah ought to do.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

Egypt shares a border with Gaza. The terrorists are their problem, too.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4401/egypt-israel-hamas

We can both agree that Hamas cannot stay. You and the media sticking to the Hamas issue is a red herring though. That is a separate issue from the continued occupation and siege. Is Abbas a terrorist too? Because he and many other governments are supporting Hamas' efforts right now.

Again, this has been going on for quite a long time, way before Hamas came into the picture. To continue talking about them as the main issue is completely disingenuous and dishonest to the root of this issue. I thought they killed those 3 teenagers and that's why Israel responded in self defense? Oh, that didn't happen? Well, then, they are terrorists. It's the same rehashed rhetoric over and over again.

Netanyahu has already been caught on audio suggesting that he has the United States wrapped around his finger. He is much more of a terrorist than any of Hamas has been and that's well documented by the U.N.

All you have to do is read a couple of these articles to understand what is actually happening. I don't fault you for your ignorance because unfortunately, American media is not reporting on what is actually happening in Gaza, only the response from Hamas which is taken completely out of context.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

4 to 1? I suppose if the Israels can manage it, they will extend this to 10-1. They probably learn something new, each time the Palestinians attack. Hell, I would run them clear out of Gaza this time if it were me, but only those that can move fast enough due South. South of Al Aqabah ought to do.

Hooray for you. You're okay with killing innocent civilians despite them being the ones that are oppressed according to the U.N.

If someone said the same thing about the Israelis, it would be considered antisemitic. Congrats.

 

[Denny Crane]

The UN is full of shit. You need to do better than that weak sauce.

 

[Denny Crane]

What I think is that an Egyptian named Arafat almost made peace that would have made this not happen.

Iran, and maybe others, are stirring up trouble by arming Hamas and other bad actors.

The people really want to live good lives. Get the bad actors to stop.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

MLK Jr. won his civil right battle through peaceful means.

Hamas and "Palestinians" not so much.

You must have missed how the U.S. government labeled MLK Jr. a domestic terrorist at the time.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

The UN is full of shit. You need to do better than that weak sauce.

And the U.S. isn't? Seriously? The U.N. voted on recognizing Palestine as its own state and the only two states that didn't recognize it was the U.S. and Israel. ALL of those countries are on the wrong side of this issue, right?

 

[Sheldon Shape]

What I think is that an Egyptian named Arafat almost made peace that would have made this not happen.

Iran, and maybe others, are stirring up trouble by arming Hamas and other bad actors.

The people really want to live good lives. Get the bad actors to stop.

Even those within the Israeli government admit Arafat had no choice but to walk away from the horrid deal the Israelis were offering. Try reading something other than Zionist propaganda.

You're right to say the people want good lives, but they haven't had it for 60+ years, with or without those bad actors like Hamas. It's like you're choosing to not recognize anything before this war which is really troublesome but fitting for the Fox News narrative.

 

[Denny Crane]

You must have missed how the U.S. government labeled MLK Jr. a domestic terrorist at the time.

His strategy of non violence succeeded anyway.

No sympathy for terrorists.