For Collins to develop, Meyers must sit.

[Scalma]

This is not me bashing Meyers...

However, since Meyers got put into the rotation Zach hasn’t played as well as earlier in the season. Earlier in the season he played closer to the basket, and more importantly, was a focal point offensively. With the ball now going through Meyers more, Zach has been relegated to floating on the perimeter. You see the footwork in the post, yet we barely give him the ball down there, unlike earlier in the year. Zach’s best production this season has also come when given 20 or more minutes. In October he averaged over 21. Hasn’t hit 20 since but he has improved in December since a minute increase from November. This pattern coincides with Meyers’ minutes. In October Meyers averaged only 8.5 minutes a game. In November he averaged nearly 15 minutes. And now in December, he’s back down to 10.

Portland is 9-2 when Zach plays 20 or more minutes, while being 4-5 when Meyers plays 15 or more.

Zachs development is the single most important thing on this team (as currently constructed.) It’ll be the difference between a consistent first round exit and something more. So while I appreciate that Meyers hasn’t been a total liability, and understand Zach’s fouls aren’t helping him stay on the court, Meyers needs to either sit or get traded somewhere else. We have more important things to worry about.

 

[BigGameDamian]

Develop LoL. That's the Blazers for you.

 

[jlprk]

Maybe it's subjective, but it feels like Collins is always close to being in foul trouble. So he can't play many more minutes than he does. (I'll duck now as his foul stats are thrown at me. I didn't check.)

 

[riverman]

nah...because of these two words....trade value...after the deadline, play the kid big minutes

 

[Labinot41]

I have been saying that for weeks

 

[kjironman1]

I don't know?
Can't argue the premise but it seemed more to me that Leonard started playing more because Collins was getting into foul trouble and was on general decline. Two sides of the same coin so i am not saying you are wrong. It just seems to me that if Collins was playing great Meyers would play less. Not the other way around?

 

[Labinot41]

it's simple, Meyers's only nba skill is his 3-point shot, but he's too often denying the Open 3-point shot, so there's no reason to let him play for even a minute, especially if he takes Collins' minutes away. Since Meyers has been in the rotation the Blazers are not playing at the same level as at the beginning. Dude is flat out horrible and should not be in rotation on a team with playoff ambitions.

 

[James lamphear]

The problem wasn't Leonard or Zach. The problem was they stop moving the ball and players wasn't moving. When offense started to die that effect the defense like it usually does with team. The 2nd unit stop performing like they did in the 1st part of the season.

 

[illmatic99]

Neil made this big song and dance about how Ed had to go to open up time for Zach. Now Meyers is taking over Ed's time.

 

[wizenheimer]

Neil made this big song and dance about how Ed had to go to open up time for Zach. Now Meyers is taking over Ed's time.

the 'song and dance' was fake news. Olshey has always been a Meyers fan and he is exceedingly stubborn about "his guys". And, like it or not, letting Davis walk was also about tax. Dumping Davis opened up 20 minutes that would be taken by either Zach or Meyers. Win-win in Olshey's mind

**************************************************************

seems to me that if Zach was clearly deserving of more minutes, he'd be getting them. I know a lot of people are down on Stotts but if he thought Zach at C gave him the best chance at winning games, Zach would be playing more C.

Zach DID play more C to start the season, and he had two major problems, IMO. One was that any kind of physicality was able to move him out of position, on both ends of the floor. He's still just too weak and he desperately needs more core strength. That will happen but it's going to take time...as in a couple of seasons at minimum.

the other problem is Zach is a poor rebounder. If he wants to take minutes from Meyers, he needs to close the cap, significantly, in rebounding rate. Right now Meyers has a 17.9% to 11.1% advantage. That's sizable. In fact, the 6'9 Aminu has a 13.9% vs 11.1% advantage over the 7' Zach. Turner and Harkless at SF are at 10%.

essentially, Zach's production & impact seem more like a SF than a C. He does block shots at a decent rate, but other than that, his paint presence isn't up to typical C standards

Basically, last season Davis and Zach were a tandem and the strengths of Davis covered up the weaknesses in Zach's game. This season they are more exposed playing with Meyers and even more exposed playing with Aminu or Harkless as PF

this is on Zach to improve, not on Stotts to clear away an 'obstacle' that's doing things Zach can't

 

[dviss1]

For Meyers to increase his trade value he's gotta play.

 

[BonesJones]

the 'song and dance' was fake news. Olshey has always been a Meyers fan and he is exceedingly stubborn about "his guys". And, like it or not, letting Davis walk was also about tax. Dumping Davis opened up 20 minutes that would be taken by either Zach or Meyers. Win-win in Olshey's mind

**************************************************************

seems to me that if Zach was clearly deserving of more minutes, he'd be getting them. I know a lot of people are down on Stotts but if he thought Zach at C gave him the best chance at winning games, Zach would be playing more C.

Zach DID play more C to start the season, and he had two major problems, IMO. One was that any kind of physicality was able to move him out of position, on both ends of the floor. He's still just too weak and he desperately needs more core strength. That will happen but it's going to take time...as in a couple of seasons at minimum.

the other problem is Zach is a poor rebounder. If he wants to take minutes from Meyers, he needs to close the cap, significantly, in rebounding rate. Right now Meyers has a 17.9% to 11.1% advantage. That's sizable. In fact, the 6'8 Aminus has a 13.9% vs 11.1% advantage. Turner and Harkless at SF are at 10%.

essentially, Zach's production & impact seem more like a SF than a C. He does block shots at a decent rate, but other than that, his paint presence isn't up to typical C standards

Basically, last season Davis and Zach were a tandem and the strengths of Davis covered up the weaknesses in Zach's game. This season they are more exposed playing with Meyers and even more exposed playing with Aminu or Harkless as PF

this is on Zach to improve, not on Stotts to clear away an 'obstacle' that's doing things Zach can't

Exactly, Stotts thinks that Meyers is a better option. He also said he thinks the bench has been playing well.

Collins doesnt steal rebounds from other teammates. Meyers does. Youd need to look at team REB% when once of them is on the floor.

His paint presence defensively isnt up to typical C standards? Seriously?

 

[Pinwheel1]

This is not me bashing Meyers...

However, since Meyers got put into the rotation Zach hasn’t played as well as earlier in the season. Earlier in the season he played closer to the basket, and more importantly, was a focal point offensively. With the ball now going through Meyers more, Zach has been relegated to floating on the perimeter. You see the footwork in the post, yet we barely give him the ball down there, unlike earlier in the year.

Totally agree. This has nothing to do with Meyers.
Zach needs to be around the basket as the back up 5.
Aminu and Hark need to play solely at the 4 spot (Except in the rare occasions where teams go big)
That leaves Jake to start at SF with ET backing him up.

 

[wizenheimer]

Exactly, Stotts thinks that Meyers is a better option. He also said he thinks the bench has been playing well.

Collins doesnt steal rebounds from other teammates. Meyers does. Youd need to look at team REB% when once of them is on the floor.

ok

Team Reb Rate with Nurkic on floor: 55.0%
Team Reb Rate with Nurkic off floor: 50.4%

Team Reb Rate with Aminu on floor: 53.5%
Team Reb Rate with Nurkic off floor: 52.0%

Team Reb Rate with Meyers on floor: 52.6%
Team Reb Rate with Meyers off floor: 53.0%

Team Reb Rate with Zach on floor: 51.3%
Team Reb Rate with Zach off floor: 54.1%

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/POR/2019/on-off/

looks like that Zach needs to worry about "stealing" rebounds from opponents

His paint presence defensively isnt up to typical C standards? Seriously?

yes, seriously

in DRPM, Zach ranks 54th of 93 NBA PF's tracked

as a C, he would rank 48th out of 61 tracked

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/6

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/DRPM/position/9

if you want to wade thru NBA.com stats, feel free although it's a mind-numbing task. In terms of opponent FG% Zach ranks 208th out of all NBA players, tied with Greg Monroe and just behind Taj Gibson, not exactly defensive luminaries themselves

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-overall/?sort=D_FG_PCT&dir=1

 

[Pinwheel1]

ok

if you want to wade thru NBA.com stats, feel free although it's a mind-numbing task. In terms of opponent FG% Zach ranks 208th out of all NBA players, tied with Greg Monroe and just behind Taj Gibson, not exactly defensive luminaries themselves

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-overall/?sort=D_FG_PCT&dir=1

No thanks. As interesting as stats like those are, they are flawed.

 

[wizenheimer]

No thanks. As interesting as stats like those are, they are flawed.

all stats are flawed, especially defensive ones. But then, so is the eyeball test since it can be filled with bias, and I sure do see a lot of bias around here about certain players. By the way, I'm not exempting myself from that sin. But, if you're going to claim flaws in those stats I listed, you might at least explain what the flaws were and how they inaccurately disadvantaged Zach

on the other hand, when several different types of stats show essentially the same things about the same player they can actually indicate something valid

 

[riverman]

6'9 Aminu has a 13.9% vs 11.1% advantage over the 7' Zach.

Something few people know about Chief is that he has a freakish wingspan...his wingspan is the same as Nurks but he can jump much higher than most centers in the league

 

[James lamphear]

all stats are flawed, especially defensive ones. But then, so is the eyeball test since it can be filled with bias, and I sure do see a lot of bias around here about certain players. By the way, I'm not exempting myself from that sin. But, if you're going to claim flaws in those stats I listed, you might at least explain what the flaws were and how they inaccurately disadvantaged Zach

on the other hand, when several different types of stats show essentially the same things about the same player they can actually indicate something valid

One reason he doesn't get a lot rebounds in needs to get stronger and the other reason is that he guarding perimeter players out the 3 point line so in not in good position for rebounds. You don't see that in Nurk or Meyers there always around the basket.

 

[Pinwheel1]

all stats are flawed, especially defensive ones. But then, so is the eyeball test since it can be filled with bias, and I sure do see a lot of bias around here about certain players. By the way, I'm not exempting myself from that sin. But, if you're going to claim flaws in those stats I listed, you might at least explain what the flaws were and how they inaccurately disadvantaged Zach

on the other hand, when several different types of stats show essentially the same things about the same player they can actually indicate something valid

Why ? You just said yourself that all stats have flaws....... especially defensive ones. I am not arguing for or against your main point, I am just saying I have no inclination to do that "mind numbing task" you mentioned, because it rarely tells the whole story.

I do like your theory that the eye test is also be flawed because of "bias". Never thought about it that way. None the less the more you watch a player the more the eye test is more reliable. Especially if the analytics suggest that Zach Collins and Greg Monroe might possibly be similar defensively.

 

[Shaboid]

But what would we do without the 9-15 points the team needs via swish3's, to win?

 

[blue9]

For Collins to develop...he must play for a coach who can effectively develop big men.

 

[Reep]

For Collins to develop...he must play for a coach who can effectively develop big men.

Yeah, like Nurkic needed.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see a big man coach, but with the evolving roles in the NBA, I'm not sure someone who played 15-20 years ago and happens to be tall would help any more than what we have. Now if we could get Laimbeer I would be all in.

 

[blue9]

Yeah, like Nurkic needed.

Don't get me wrong I would love to see a big man coach, but with the evolving roles in the NBA, I'm not sure someone who played 15-20 years ago and happens to be tall would help any more than what we have. Now if we could get Laimbeer I would be all in.

I don't care whether they're an ex-player or physically big. But someone who actually understands that PFs are not SGs would be a step in the right direction...even if they're a 5' 400lb neckbeard.

 

[Reep]

I don't care whether they're an ex-player or physically big. But someone who actually understands that PFs are not SGs would be a step in the right direction...even if they're a 5' 400lb neckbeard.

HCP would NOT make a good Big Man Coach.

 

[Mediocre Man]

HCP would NOT make a good Big Man Coach.

The HCP is the Raymond Felton of the forum. Short, round with a limited skillset.

 

[wizenheimer]

help me if I'm remembering things wrong, but didn't Portland used to have a pretty good big man coach as an assistant? Hughes?

IIRC, he got fired for telling the truth about Aldridge going to leave Portland and that wasn't allowed with all of the bogus PR bullshit Olshey was pumping out at the time

am I off base here?

 

[blue9]

help me if I'm remembering things wrong, but didn't Portland used to have a pretty good big man coach as an assistant? Hughes?

IIRC, he got fired for telling the truth about Aldridge going to leave Portland and that wasn't allowed with all of the bogus PR bullshit Olshey was pumping out at the time

am I off base here?

SPot on.

 

[hoopsjock]

help me if I'm remembering things wrong, but didn't Portland used to have a pretty good big man coach as an assistant? Hughes?

IIRC, he got fired for telling the truth about Aldridge going to leave Portland and that wasn't allowed with all of the bogus PR bullshit Olshey was pumping out at the time

am I off base here?

Two things to that:

1) Hughes is basically only thought of as a good big man coach because of the year Meyers had before he got fired. Meyers is putting up similar shooting numbers this season so maybe people are overstating the impact Hughes had on Meyers development.

2) In almost any form of business if an employee divulges sensitive company material they are usually fired. You can spin it any way you want but Hughes shouldn't have been yapping about it before free agency started.

Now, I'm not trying to say that the Blazers shouldn't invest in a big man coach because they probably should.

 

[BonesJones]

HCP would make a good Wide Man Coach.

FTFY.

 

[BonesJones]

The HCP is the Raymond Felton of the forum. Short, round with a limited skillset.

I always thought he was Zach Randolph.