For or Against Gay Marriages?

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Last time I checked, America was known as the land of the free.

How come a couple no matter who or what they are can`t simply be married and love each other?
 
I don't understand how people can think that being gay is a choice. What person would choose to go down a path in which they will be tormented his or her entire life? Who would choose a life of discrimination? I can't think of a single reason someone would choose to be gay, people do what feels right, they don't make a conscience decision in which they say I want to be gay.

BlackMamba you are just being ignorant about the subject. <div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">90% of gay parents who want to raise a child will more than likely raise that child believieng being gay is the perfect way to be.</div>

first of all you just made that number up with no proof or anything and secondly, there is nothing wrong with being gay. No one can force someone to be gay, and I highly doubt a gay parent would try to convince his or her child to become gay.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Being gay isn't normal, that's why it's called an alternative lifestyle.</div>
and what exactly is wrong with an alternate lifestyle and not being normal?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">It's very true. A gay man has to put his penis where another man craps, that is so unsanitary.</div>
anal sex happens between a man and a woman all the time too, what's your point?
 
Personally, I hate homosexuals with a passion and wish they weren't put on this earth. I know that's a little too harsh but didn't God put Adam and Eve earth first? God didn't create Adam and Steve, nor Madam and Eve. We were created to a plan--male and female complementing each other. ...and doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality is wrong--if you don't believe me, then read chaper 1 and 2 of Genesis and maybe you will change your mind So yeah, i'm definitely against gay marriage and would love to see it put to a stop...
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting UKFan33:</div><div class="quote_post">Personally, I hate homosexuals with a passion and wish they weren't put on this earth. I know that's a little too harsh but didn't God put Adam and Eve earth first? God didn't create Adam and Steve, nor Madam and Eve. We were created to a plan--male and female complementing each other. ...and doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality is wrong--if you don't believe me, then read chaper 1 and 2 of Genesis and maybe you will change your mind So yeah, i'm definitely against gay marriage and would love to see it put to a stop...</div>
Clearly you're religious, but how can you justify making that the law? Especially in a country where there is a clear seperation between church and state. 44Thrilla was really the only person who argued against gay marriage without relying completely on emotions or religious arguments. None of those provide legal justification and are pretty flimsy.
 
^^Agreed. like someone said earlier, this could be the first ammendment/law for discrimination
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting UKFan33:</div><div class="quote_post">Personally, I hate homosexuals with a passion and wish they weren't put on this earth. I know that's a little too harsh but didn't God put Adam and Eve earth first? God didn't create Adam and Steve, nor Madam and Eve. We were created to a plan--male and female complementing each other. ...and doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality is wrong--if you don't believe me, then read chaper 1 and 2 of Genesis and maybe you will change your mind So yeah, i'm definitely against gay marriage and would love to see it put to a stop...</div>

Adam and steve wouldnt make any kids, god isnt that stupid. also the bible (those chapters you mentioned say nothing about being gay) also says that you cant eat pork, you should sacrifice your finest grain to god (this grain needs salt btw), offer a male cattle from your flock, no eating ox, sheep, or goat, no drinking strong drink or wine, no eating ANY unclean animals, it also says no sex before marriage, and many many other things These were the laws for the people of israel in ancient times. So accordingy to the bible, if you eat any sheep or drink some wine, that is just as bad as being gay.
 
God put a man and a women on earth; it's simple as that. Being gay is wrong and I don't care what other's say...it's totally disgusting and I don't see how people can support that crap.

Well anyways, I was raised to think that being gay was wrong and there's nothing that's going to change my stance.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting UKFan33:</div><div class="quote_post">God put a man and a women on earth; it's simple as that. Being gay is wrong and I don't care what other's say...it's totally disgusting and I don't see how people can support that crap.

Well anyways, I was raised to think that being gay was wrong and there's nothing that's going to change my stance.</div>
That's fine, just don't try to argue against gay marriage in a serious discussion.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting BC:</div><div class="quote_post">I don't understand how people can think that being gay is a choice. What person would choose to go down a path in which they will be tormented his or her entire life? Who would choose a life of discrimination? I can't think of a single reason someone would choose to be gay, people do what feels right, they don't make a conscience decision in which they say I want to be gay.</div>
That's exactly the point I try to make with people who say homosexuality is not an innate characteristic. Why in the world would someone choose to be gay when gays are one of the most ridiculed communities in society? Who ever thinks, "hhmm, instead of being like everyone else, I think I would want to experience my school years being tormented and put down."

And if you think being gay is by choice, then wouldn't that mean that everyone has gay fantasies but only few choose to enjoy it? So for those who think it's a choice, when you see a naked good-looking guy, do you sometimes feel a sudden urge to perform sexual acts with him but choose not to? I'm not trying to be macho or anything, but I'm pretty sure that there wasn't a single point in my life where I was debating if I were straight or gay.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">The legal arguments against "gay marriage" mirror the linguistic in many ways. In natural law, for example, the teleological purpose of marriage is procreation. The very survival of the species depends upon reproduction, so it is the goal of government to encourage fruitful marriages. It is also for this reason, both in pagan and Christian laws, that you find the failure to issue any progeny permissible grounds for divorce. Even in periods of European history when divorce would be prohibited for almost any reason, one can still find many instances of divorce for lack of offspring. Reproduction, through and through, has always been central to the legality of marriage, which is why no culture, until very recently, has even considered "gay marriage."

Heterosexuals, however, are not alone in their condemnation of "gay marriage". Historically minded homosexuals too - those who realize that history does not begin in 1968 - recognize homosexuality as an exception to long-standing historical norm, and are quite content with it remaining in the margins. As many have noted, people have always engaged in homosexual acts, but these acts have never been prescribed as the norm, especially not in relation to marriage. Following the cues of history, intellectual homosexuals prefer to keep homosexuality as a vibrant subculture, but nothing more. To transgress against a firmly planted historical paradigm, they argue, is Quixotic at best.

Marriage, if it is to survive, must remain a long-standing institution defined as the eternal union of man and a woman. There is a reason that wise statesmen for all of recorded history have prescribed heterosexual marriage as the norm; it is necessary for the survival of society. Undermine such an important institution, and you are undermining your very cultural legacy. To tamper with this institution in the spirit of social engineering is not only foolish, but also quite devastating. Destroy one of the central tenants of our society, and you are ripping away at the very fabric of our stability. Leveled buildings can easily be rebuilt, but once a nation's moral fiber has been destroyed it is in serious trouble. Just read Toynbee.</div>

Here is a basically non-religious argument against gay marriage.

http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/op..._21222443.shtml
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting dunksworth:</div><div class="quote_post">That's exactly the point I try to make with people who say homosexuality is not an innate characteristic. Why in the world would someone choose to be gay when gays are one of the most ridiculed communities in society? Who ever thinks, "hhmm, instead of being like everyone else, I think I would want to experience my school years being tormented and put down."

And if you think being gay is by choice, then wouldn't that mean that everyone has gay fantasies but only few choose to enjoy it? So for those who think it's a choice, when you see a naked good-looking guy, do you sometimes feel a sudden urge to perform sexual acts with him but choose not to? I'm not trying to be macho or anything, but I'm pretty sure that there wasn't a single point in my life where I was debating if I were straight or gay.</div>
It's really a matter of human psychology. The human brain can "train" (for lack of a better word, I guess) itself to attract itself to all types of different activities. That's why every person is different. You won't find two people that are exactly alike in interests and personality.

What you and BC are arguing has to do with rational thoughts, which is something that a lot of human beings lack when they make certain decisions. If everybody refused to make a decision that had a downside, then the whole world would be filled with perfect, law abiding, heterosexual people and we wouldn't dream of even having this conversation. Too bad it's nowhere near that.

I guess my basic point as to homosexuality being a choice is that, just because you may enjoy an activity doesn't mean you were meant to enjoy it from birth. I think it's something that certain people choose to tolerate and enjoy, just like anything else. Even though I, personally, think gay sex is gross...I fully understand that others do not. I also don't like seafood and country music, other people might think I'm crazy. We're all different and our brains have their own capabilities. That's cool with me...I just happen to think our brains started at the same starting point, and just evolved in different ways.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting MiamiBalla12:</div><div class="quote_post">Here is a basically non-religious argument against gay marriage.

http://www.postchronicle.com/commentary/op..._21222443.shtml</div>
See that's a reasonable argument that can at least start a dialogue. Not like "eww that nasty and not what God wants." My main problem with it, and I voiced this before, is that it's still trying to define our conception of marriage, love, and, to a certain extent, law through the past. Marriage lost any naturalistic teleology when divorce was allowed. The concept is no longer strictly meant to promote reproduction. Heterosexuals enjoy an interpretation of marriage that doesn't force them to have children or even restrict them from having recreational sex. My main beef is that these same heterosexuals will argue that gay marriages must fullfill those requirements. Its unfair, illogical, and essentially is making an argument akin to "things have always been like that, so there's no need to change it." I guess that's what you get with a historical perspective on anything. Personally, I find appeals to faith or tradition to be the most illogical arguments.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">That's fine, just don't try to argue against gay marriage in a serious discussion.</div>
I'm pretty sure the title says "For or Against Gay Marriage," and I stated that I am strongly against it. If you don't like it, then don't read it; easy as that.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">It's really a matter of human psychology. The human brain can "train" (for lack of a better word, I guess) itself to attract itself to all types of different activities. That's why every person is different. You won't find two people that are exactly alike in interests and personality.

What you and BC are arguing has to do with rational thoughts, which is something that a lot of human beings lack when they make certain decisions. If everybody refused to make a decision that had a downside, then the whole world would be filled with perfect, law abiding, heterosexual people and we wouldn't dream of even having this conversation. Too bad it's nowhere near that.</div>
You're confusing the term "rational" decisions with the "right" decision. Every decision people make have some level of rationality involved. People who steal do so because there's an immediate benefit, so to them it's "rational" but we all know it's not the "right" thing to do. When little Johnny sticks a metal fork in an electrical outlet, he does so because he likes jabbing forks into different things, so to him it's rational but again, it wasn't the right thing to do.

In regard to gays, people already assume they have a level of rationality when making their "choice", otherwise condemning them for a decision where they couldn't be rational would be preposterous. And this is the point I'm trying to make. When people start to become aware of their sexual identity, we assume that they're already in school so they've been exposed to the constant mockeries of the gay lifestyle. Now given this criteria, why would any rational human being decide to take the homosexual route? There are no immediate benefits from choosing gay from straight, just purely negative consequences, which they should be fulling aware of. That's like believing that there will always be at least one or two kids in a class who will see the fat kid getting abused daily and think to themselves, "now THAT'S a lifestyle I want to be a part of!!"....

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I guess my basic point as to homosexuality being a choice is that, just because you may enjoy an activity doesn't mean you were meant to enjoy it from birth. I think it's something that certain people choose to tolerate and enjoy, just like anything else. Even though I, personally, think gay sex is gross...I fully understand that others do not. I also don't like seafood and country music, other people might think I'm crazy. We're all different and our brains have their own capabilities. That's cool with me...I just happen to think our brains started at the same starting point, and just evolved in different ways.</div>
I don't believe that one bit (that our brains had the same starting point). Everyone has genetically predisposed charateristics, and I'm not talking just physical. Some people are given the ability to be great artists, while others will never be as good no matter how hard they try. Some people like eating liver and for others, there's no possible way that they can actually enjoying eating it (I myself can't eat liver no matter how hard I try.... I literally throw up everytime I attempt to digest it).
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting UKFan33:</div><div class="quote_post">I'm pretty sure the title says "For or Against Gay Marriage," and I stated that I am strongly against it. If you don't like it, then don't read it; easy as that.</div>
These forums are meant for expressing your opinions, so I have no problem with you saying that. I'm just saying that you can't argue against gay marriage in a legal context with that type of argument. Sorry if it was a bit hostile.
 
Here is the way as I see it. I live in San Francisco for 9 years and my family had many gay friends, my best friend had two moms. No one ever made fun of him for that beacuse he had no trouble admitting it and didn't hide from the fact. You can get beat up by it, or make it something emberassing if you believe it is. And to dispell the myth that people with homo sexual mothers or fathers will be gay, he liked girls and was not forced into a lifestyle that he didn't want and I can say the same for many I have met. It is the homophobia that makes people think that gays are going to try to convert everyone. They let non gay people live there own lives and they live there own.

You can't change who people are and if someone wants to be gay, it is there choice and not for some third party like the church or the homo phobics to step in.

My 2 cents.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Char:</div><div class="quote_post">It shouldn't be legal anyway. If you look up in the dictionary what a family consists of, it consists of a mom and dad, not two moms or two dads. It bothers me that when I have a kid someday, he will ask me why that kid has two dads.
On the other side of the coin, there's no stopping them, if they are determined to get married.</div>


And at one point, blacks were considered 3/5 of a person.

And women were denied the right to vote...
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Umair15:</div><div class="quote_post">Shoot if two homo's adopt a child.. I will friggin feel sorry for the child. Then the child will be homo too.. then more and more people will be homo..
STOP GAY MARRIAGES!
If we let gay marriages go on we will have more homo's!</div>


This is probably the dumbest thing I've read today.

Chlorine...gene pool.....
 
I am literally appalled. But I guess I need to remind myself, there are a plethora of 14 year olds on this site...so perhaps I shouldn't be too surprised.

"Its not right"- Says who? Who defined what is right and what isn't right.

"Its not natural" - Again, says who? I bet if you asked someone who is gay, they'd say its a natural feeling for them. That they cannot control who they are attracted to; that its something that they are born into; not something they choose.

"Its disgusting" - Which is completely irrelevant

I have yet to hear ONE VALID reason as to why homosexuals should not be allowed to be married. Not one. I've heard people argue that "marriage is defined as a man and a woman..." Yeah, so what? At one point, black people were considered 3/5 of a person. Woman were considered so low they weren't allowed the right to vote.

Times change. Society progresses. As that happens, laws need to change to reflect that.

"A man and a man or a woman and a woman can't get pregnant" is another "arguement" used in opposition. So the point of marriage is child bearing? Well, I guess we shouldn't allow woman after menapause to get married. Furthermore, sterile men/woman should NOT be able to be married either. And if you are married and childless, we should just annull those marriages too.


And as for the "you can train yourself..." comment... LOL. I can try not to be attracted to blondes with small, round shaped butts, medium sized perky breasts....doesn't mean it will happen. Because it would feel unnatural to me.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting 44Thrilla:</div><div class="quote_post">
I guess my basic point as to homosexuality being a choice is that, just because you may enjoy an activity doesn't mean you were meant to enjoy it from birth. I think it's something that certain people choose to tolerate and enjoy, just like anything else. Even though I, personally, think gay sex is gross...I fully understand that others do not. I also don't like seafood and country music, other people might think I'm crazy. We're all different and our brains have their own capabilities. That's cool with me...I just happen to think our brains started at the same starting point, and just evolved in different ways.</div>


Its not a choice. I don't EVER recall waking up one morning and saying "guess I'll be straight." I was just born that way.

Similarily, a gay person doesn't just wake up and say "guess I will be gay JUST to go against what the 'norm' is, to ensure life long ridicule by ignorant people."
 
Let them do what they want to do. Its not our choice if they want to be gay or not.
 
The same people who use the "god intended marriage between man and woman" is essentially saying that we should play into stereotypes and homosexuals aren't considered people and don't deserve the same rights as other people. Don't give me that "it is god's will" stuff either (not to be offensive or anything, just making a point and I'm not very religious), whatever happened to freedom of religion and belief? Isn't the reason for banning gay marriage simply because they're forcing us to believe in something that is based from Christainity?

Ironic how U.S. is considered a country that is "free".

Edit: By the way, I'm not gay.
 
Homosexuals can love each other just as much as straight people can. Yes, they should be able to get married. Republicans don't care about the sanctity of marriage--they don't give a **** about Britney Spears getting a marriage annulled in 9 days. They don't care about the divorce rates being so high you're more likely to split up than stay together.

I guarantee the divorce rates for gays would be lower than what we have now.

I think man ass sex is disgusting too, but I don't care what goes on in other people's bedrooms, and the government sure as hell shouldn't.
 
Just a thought, I would bet that statistically there has to be plenty of gays on this site. Can any of you tell which ones?
 
yes i think rudy gay should get married. haha just playin..

i really dont care what they do, as long as my kids dont turn out gay im good.
 
No marriage is something sacred and holy between a man and a woman.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting ManHops23:</div><div class="quote_post">No marriage is something sacred and holy between a man and a woman.</div>


Its so sacred that divorce rates only now have begun to drop off.

Right..

Its so sacred you have Las Vegas style weddings and weddings being annulled all the time, days after being married.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting asdf:</div><div class="quote_post">The same people who use the "god intended marriage between man and woman" is essentially saying that we should play into stereotypes and homosexuals aren't considered people and don't deserve the same rights as other people. Don't give me that "it is god's will" stuff either (not to be offensive or anything, just making a point and I'm not very religious), whatever happened to freedom of religion and belief? Isn't the reason for banning gay marriage simply because they're forcing us to believe in something that is based from Christainity?

Ironic how U.S. is considered a country that is "free".

Edit: By the way, I'm not gay.</div>

Exactly.

It, at one time, was "God's Will" to start the Crusades.

Oops.

Guess religion isn't infallible.
 
Some of the posters in here are being pretty ignorant.

My stance is that I don't have a problem with gay marriages, as long as there is no "forcing of conversion" on the sides of the gay couple towards their children or other "straight" indaviduals they encounter. From reading the posts I have read with people that have actually known gay married couples (as opposed to creating fictional numbers), they do not seem to be forceful at all towards thier child, which is more then what I can say for some straight marriages I know of, which consists of the parents yelling at the kid to contort to certain views and lifestyles.

If you are not gay, why do you even care? I'm straight, I don't care what gay people do, as long as it doesn't affect me directly. Not like I'm going to be the pastor at thier weddings or something. So, what's the problem? I've been straight all my life but if some next individuals want to get married to each other, who am I to say it's wrong? It's life, let people do what they want, especially in the "land of the free".

As someone already said: times adapt, laws change and people evolve into acceptance. The mass of homosexuals are increasing and if this lifestyle continues to develop more, eventually, it should become allowed for them to be married, despite what George Bush or any of the other idiots afraid of losing voters thinks.

There are a lot of ignorant leaders in this world, who will not accept issues such as this because they believe that they will lose votes of some ignorant 30-40-50 year olds who think of gays as the worst thing to be present upon this world. I would like to believe that my generation [80's kids] are much more mature and understanding about the subject because although there are always those strict close-minded individuals who believe it's wrong without giving it a thought, there are also open minded individuals that look into the other side of the view.

To all the posters in here that are totally against it, that think it is totally disgusting...what if you were "born" gay?? What if your sexual orientation was that of a gay person? How would you feel about gays and thier rights then? Most of you guys that are all against gays dont see it from the other side of the coin. This isn't some minor movement of 200 people challenging laws of countries, it a MASS movement of people choosing the "alternative" lifestyle over the "regular" one.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
It bothers me that when I have a kid someday, he will ask me why that kid has two dads.
</div>

Why does that bother you??? All you have to do is tell your kid the truth. I'm pretty sure by the time you and I are in our marriage years, homosexuals will be even more commonplace then now.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
A child with two fathers or mothers is not a child, it's a product of disgust.
</div>

I would expect you to be a little less ignorant about the subject. A product of disgust? What gives you the right to say that??? There is no such thing as a "product" of disgust in this world unless it has to do with a sickening rapist or a pedophille creating babies out of underage women or women they force into having sex. A product of disgust is women who are forced into prostitution and as a result have to have babies and abortions to satisfy the sexual desires of horny men who just want quick sex in exchange for money. Those are products of disgust. A child with two fathers or two mothers could have more love present in thier family then those of 5000 other straight families for all we know, how can you just jump to such a conclusion?

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
marriage is something sacred and holy between a man and a woman
</div>

The whole "sacred" thing ties in Gays with religion, which is a whole different topic. And from looking at divorce rates, it doesn't seem like this "sacredness" is totally believed in America and Canada.
 
My problem with homosexuality, are based off of Science, not Religion/etc. I almost don't care about gay marriage, so if it happens, I'd walk it off, but I'd prefer not to indirectly promote that lifestyle (with the national acceptance of gay marriage). I just have some questions for you people.

How is being gay, different from being born with the urge to have intercourse with a little girl? Some killers/maniacs are born that way, does that mean it is okay to promote their lifestyle? However, if I am wrong for some reason, or if you have any important scientifc links that would disprove my current beliefs, I am willing to read it of course. It seems completely unnatural, biologically, and I consider it a mental condition.
 
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