For or Against Gay Marriages?

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I personally dont agree with it, not for a religious reason, but I just think man was intended to be with a woman and likewise, but I mean if 2 homosexuals love each other, then thats all that matters I guess, I dont think they should be stopped from loving each other.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting UKFan33:</div><div class="quote_post">Personally, I hate homosexuals with a passion and wish they weren't put on this earth. I know that's a little too harsh but didn't God put Adam and Eve earth first? God didn't create Adam and Steve, nor Madam and Eve. We were created to a plan--male and female complementing each other. ...and doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality is wrong--if you don't believe me, then read chaper 1 and 2 of Genesis and maybe you will change your mind So yeah, i'm definitely against gay marriage and would love to see it put to a stop...</div>
You, are a sadly naive person. You hate homosexuals with a passion? Do you hate Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. with a passion too, because they don't agree with The Bible? That's what you're using as your defense. Do you think people should be stoned to death for working on Sundays, then? Since you follow the Old Testement to a damn tee, and all.

Oh, that's right, you're a hypocrite. You're using the Bible to justify your own deeply seeded homophobia. Why are you homophobic? You should realize most people who have homophobia that is so passionate, so hateful as yours are gay themselves. The homophobia is a defense mechanism.




<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">My problem with homosexuality, are based off of Science, not Religion/etc. I almost don't care about gay marriage, so if it happens, I'd walk it off, but I'd prefer not to indirectly promote that lifestyle (with the national acceptance of gay marriage). I just have some questions for you people.

How is being gay, different from being born with the urge to have intercourse with a little girl? Some killers/maniacs are born that way, does that mean it is okay to promote their lifestyle? However, if I am wrong for some reason, or if you have any important scientifc links that would disprove my current beliefs, I am willing to read it of course. It seems completely unnatural, biologically, and I consider it a mental condition.</div>
No, and as someone who actually knows science, and isn't just a kid like you who had biology in high school, you are wrong. Homosexuality is common in animals. Homosexuality is not caused by a chemical imbalance, like the imbalances that fuel murderers and real sexual deviants.

"Homosexuality appears to be widespread among insects, birds and mammals, particularly the apes. Many male penguins that apparently mate for life have been observed in homosexual pairs and refuse to pair with females when given the chance [4].

One report on sheep cited below states:

'Approximately eight percent of [male] rams exhibit sexual preferences [that is, even when given a choice] for male partners (male-oriented rams) in contrast to most rams, which prefer female partners (female-oriented rams). We identified a cell group within the medial preoptic area/anterior hypothalamus of age-matched adult sheep that was significantly larger in adult rams than in ewes...' "


Do you realize that when you say "I would ignore homosexuality, but it's better for me to denounce it because I don't want to promote it." That makes you sound like you're very insecure with your sexuality.

The thought of hairy man ass sex is disgusting to me, too, but I don't think my personal opinion should be legislated, affecting millions of adults capable of making their own decisions.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck:</div><div class="quote_post">



No, and as someone who actually knows science, and isn't just a kid like you who had biology in high school, you are wrong. Homosexuality is common in animals. Homosexuality is not caused by a chemical imbalance, like the imbalances that fuel murderers and real sexual deviants.

"Homosexuality appears to be widespread among insects, birds and mammals, particularly the apes. Many male penguins that apparently mate for life have been observed in homosexual pairs and refuse to pair with females when given the chance [4].

One report on sheep cited below states:

'Approximately eight percent of [male] rams exhibit sexual preferences [that is, even when given a choice] for male partners (male-oriented rams) in contrast to most rams, which prefer female partners (female-oriented rams). We identified a cell group within the medial preoptic area/anterior hypothalamus of age-matched adult sheep that was significantly larger in adult rams than in ewes...' "


Do you realize that when you say "I would ignore homosexuality, but it's better for me to denounce it because I don't want to promote it." That makes you sound like you're very insecure with your sexuality.

The thought of hairy man ass sex is disgusting to me, too, but I don't think my personal opinion should be legislated, affecting millions of adults capable of making their own decisions.</div>

And how does that make me insecure? I'd like to not see that stuff on TV all the time, that seems like something logical to say. Banning or approving Gay Marriage won't really change anything, I just don't feel like officially promoting that lifestyle. Explain to me again how that makes me unsure about myself. Don't go after me with ridiculous statements like that. Stick to those "cute" scientifc facts I asked for, heh.

Yes, I have heard about various animals being homosexual before, this is not a revelation, but then one could also say they are suffering from some disorder too. With my experience, now that you've presented your side, I'd like a scientific article about the other side of the issue. You also did not fully describe in detail, how being homosexual is different from pedophilia.

Off topic: My experiences with videos such as "Loose Change"/other CT videos, has taught me to listen to every side of the story before I make up my mind. I do not immediately buy into what you are saying until I get more info. I don't want to be mislead.

I guess I'll be googling this topic to learn more about it. I'll get back to you. I'd say though, whatever seems generally unnatural and/or disgusting, would raise a red flag, in my eyes.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">
How is being gay, different from being born with the urge to have intercourse with a little girl? Some killers/maniacs are born that way, does that mean it is okay to promote their lifestyle?</div>
Because the two parties are consenting and agreed to the marriage or whatever. Whereas in your other examples, obviously one of them (the girl, the killed people) have really no say in the matter. I know you're trying to attribute homosexuality as something like abnormal in chemical levels in the brain or something, but just sayin.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting AznxBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">Because the two parties are consenting and agreed to the marriage or whatever. Whereas in your other examples, obviously one of them (the girl, the killed people) have really no say in the matter. I know you're trying to attribute homosexuality as something like abnormal in chemical levels in the brain or something, but just sayin.</div>

I appreciate your attempt at explaining this to me, but I was looking for a more scientific answer. Not so much your philosophical conclusion. As for both of them consenting, if there is something biologically flawed in them, there could still be something wrong there. This merits more reading/looking into on my part.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">I appreciate your attempt at explaining this to me, but I was looking for a more scientific answer. Not so much your philosophical conclusion.</div>
No, you're not. You've got your ideas set and you aren't going to change them even if someone refuted it with the purest logic. You are stubbornly idiotic.


Also, to the person who explained "in all your examples, one person isn't consenting", you're exactly right. Thank you for not being stupid in this thread.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck:</div><div class="quote_post">No, you're not. You've got your ideas set and you aren't going to change them even if someone refuted it with the purest logic. You are stubbornly idiotic.


Also, to the person who explained "in all your examples, one person isn't consenting", you're exactly right. Thank you for not being stupid in this thread.</div>

How the hell do you know that? What, are you lazy or something? Go get some more articles or I will. What a jerk, I really don't care as much as you think. You're just bitter someone actually wants to know both sides of the issue instead of listening to your banter. Please, spare me.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">And how does that make me insecure? I'd like to not see that stuff on TV all the time, that seems like something logical to say. </div>
I watch shows that occasionally have a gay kiss or something in it. And you know what I do? I turn my ****ing head away for a second, or change the channel. It makes you insecure because you feel your sexuality is being infringed upon, by people who have absolutely nothing to do with you, by people who you will never meet, never see.


You.
Are.
Pathetic.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chuck:</div><div class="quote_post">I watch shows that occasionally have a gay kiss or something in it. And you know what I do? I turn my ****ing head away for a second, or change the channel. It makes you insecure because you feel your sexuality is being infringed upon, by people who have absolutely nothing to do with you, by people who you will never meet, never see.


You.
Are.
Pathetic.</div>

You're obnoxious. Look at my previous post. You think you can read minds, you don't know anything.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting UKFan33:</div><div class="quote_post">Personally, I hate homosexuals with a passion and wish they weren't put on this earth. I know that's a little too harsh but didn't God put Adam and Eve earth first? God didn't create Adam and Steve, nor Madam and Eve. We were created to a plan--male and female complementing each other. ...and doesn't the Bible say that homosexuality is wrong--if you don't believe me, then read chaper 1 and 2 of Genesis and maybe you will change your mind So yeah, i'm definitely against gay marriage and would love to see it put to a stop...</div>
I have no idea what you're talking about...please can you explain to me because I have never read the bible...
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">My problem with homosexuality, are based off of Science, not Religion/etc. I almost don't care about gay marriage, so if it happens, I'd walk it off, but I'd prefer not to indirectly promote that lifestyle (with the national acceptance of gay marriage). I just have some questions for you people.

How is being gay, different from being born with the urge to have intercourse with a little girl? Some killers/maniacs are born that way, does that mean it is okay to promote their lifestyle? However, if I am wrong for some reason, or if you have any important scientifc links that would disprove my current beliefs, I am willing to read it of course. It seems completely unnatural, biologically, and I consider it a mental condition.</div>

If you really have to ask, then its really sad.

Adults can consent.

Kids cannot.

Its that simple.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">If you really have to ask, then its really sad.

Adults can consent.

Kids cannot.

Its that simple.</div>

Nothing is "sad" here, please spare me, if anything, that is at worst, an inappropriate example, but I brought it up because I heard a so called expert mention it once. I would still like to see an articulate reply based on science, from both POVs. That was a quick, arbitrary comparison, but the point is that manics are born with perverted tendencies.

You swear that's the only comparable situation. For example, is having intercourse with your mother ok? I think it is digusting, and I think that homosexuality is disgusting. I may be wrong, hah, that is why I asked for scientific articles, not some brief post. I don't claim to be right, prove me wrong in the correct fashion then. The only thing I ask is to not respond in Chuck's manner. That guy is completely unstable.
 
Why would you care if someone was gay or not?

Its none of my business if a dude like his S**t pushed in.

In fact I encourage it.

More p***y for AF!
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Air Fresh:</div><div class="quote_post">Why would you care if someone was gay or not?

Its none of my business if a dude like his S**t pushed in.

In fact I encourage it.

More p***y for AF!</div>

What? This is an off-topic forum for discussing such topics. I don't have to agree with anyone, and you should leave if you don't have further contributions to this thread.
 
Did I stutter?

MORE FOR B!

Your excused.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Air Fresh:</div><div class="quote_post">Did I stutter?

MORE FOR B!

Your excused.</div>

Yeah ok, whatever.
 
For real though, I have no reason to be against gay marriage. Its a personal preferance so why shoudl anybody care if it isn't any of your business? Religion should not be factor either because not everybody practices the same religion that is against gays.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Air Fresh:</div><div class="quote_post">For real though, I have no reason to be against gay marriage. Its a personal preferance so why shoudl anybody care if it isn't any of your business? Religion should not be factor either because not everybody practices the same religion that is against gays.</div>

Well one argues that it is more than just a personal preference.
 
I think Christians if they follow what Jesus taught should not engage in homosexual sex. Nor should they get married to someone of the same sex, nor should they marry two people of the same sex. Same thing applies to 1 man being married to two or more women, or vice-versa.

If two people of the same gender want to get married, that is their own perogative. I'm not going to stop them. Its just that Christians should not be involved in such things.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Vintage:</div><div class="quote_post">Its not a choice. I don't EVER recall waking up one morning and saying "guess I'll be straight." I was just born that way.

Similarily, a gay person doesn't just wake up and say "guess I will be gay JUST to go against what the 'norm' is, to ensure life long ridicule by ignorant people."</div>I bet you don't recall 90% of the choices you've made in life because life isn't as simplistic as you present it to be. And again, I asked for some kind of scientific proof to show that homosexuality is an innate characteristic, and this is what you give me?
 
Just my opinion, but the people who deny that homosexuality is an innate characteristic, don't follow through with that thought. If it isn't innate, then homosexuality must be a personality disorder of some sort. Yet, the people that oppose gay rights never even try to mention the psychological treatment and help that this reality would require. Basically, they want to deny homosexuality's right to be accepted in society, but ignore the ramifications that it would lead to.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Just my opinion, but the people who deny that homosexuality is an innate characteristic, don't follow through with that thought. If it isn't innate, then homosexuality must be a personality disorder of some sort. Yet, the people that oppose gay rights never even try to mention the psychological treatment and help that this reality would require. Basically, they want to deny homosexuality's right to be accepted in society, but ignore the ramifications that it would lead to.</div>

Well I'm all for Gay people getting help (if homosexuality indeed is a personality disorder the way you put it).
 
Being gay is wrong dude. It says it in my religion. It should be man and a woman. If you're happy for them, that's fine, but common, being gay is wrong. I know you wouldn't want to be gay. I am against it.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting huevonkiller:</div><div class="quote_post">Well I'm all for Gay people getting help (if homosexuality indeed is a personality disorder the way you put it).</div>
Yea, I wasn't pointing to anyone in particular. But, generally, the people I've met (and even the major voices in the debate) want to "sweep this issue under the rug." They simply want to supress the movement, instead of realistically projecting the consequences of those actions.



Homosexuality's actually one of the topics that I took a stand against what my religion says. The head authorities of Sikhism have called on all Sikhs to reject its legitimacy and not accept it. I've got into a lot of arguments with fellow members when I say that they are directly contradicting their own scriptures by stating that.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">Homosexuality's actually one of the topics that I took a stand against what my religion says. The head authorities of Sikhism have called on all Sikhs to reject its legitimacy and not accept it. I've got into a lot of arguments with fellow members when I say that they are directly contradicting their own scriptures by stating that.</div>
I have a few questions, just out of curiousity, because I know relatively little about Sikhism.

Have you read the Siri Guru Granth Sahib?

Does the Siri Guru Granth Sahib actually discuss homosexuality? My impression was that the SGGS was a large (very large) collection of poems written by the 10 gurus and a couple others (Kabir, etc.). A poem discussing the merits against or for homosexuality would be an interesting poem. (maybe my understanding of poems in sikhism is wrong)

So you would support same-gender marriages to occur in your gurdwara? (I think that is church-equivalent in sikhism)

Oh and have you ever heard of Khalistan Zindabad, or something like that? (what is it, I had a Sikh friend who always said it)

Anyway, I don't think believing Christians should engage in homosexual intercourse, if other religions or non-religious people choose to engage in such or have same-gender marriages, that is their own perogative.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLue11:</div><div class="quote_post">I think Christians if they follow what Jesus taught should not engage in homosexual sex. Nor should they get married to someone of the same sex, nor should they marry two people of the same sex. Same thing applies to 1 man being married to two or more women, or vice-versa.

If two people of the same gender want to get married, that is their own perogative. I'm not going to stop them. Its just that Christians should not be involved in such things.</div>

and if christians follow what jesus taught they shouldnt be doing a heck of a lot more things that society deems as exceptable. such as premarital sex.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting TheFreshPrince:</div><div class="quote_post">and if christians follow what jesus taught they shouldnt be doing a heck of a lot more things that society deems as exceptable. such as premarital sex.</div>
Totally agreed FreshPrince.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLou11:</div><div class="quote_post">Have you read the Siri Guru Granth Sahib?</div>
I read certain parts of it daily and I've read a lot of it. But it's huge (something like 1400 pages).

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLou11:</div><div class="quote_post">Does the Siri Guru Granth Sahib actually discuss homosexuality? My impression was that the SGGS was a large (very large) collection of poems written by the 10 gurus and a couple others (Kabir, etc.). A poem discussing the merits against or for homosexuality would be an interesting poem. (maybe my understanding of poems in sikhism is wrong)</div>
No, it doesn't. You're pretty much right about it. It rhymes throughout and is a collection of verses from the Gurus as well as various saints, etc. The reason I have such faith in it is because it mainly concerns itself with the concept of God, the supernatural, and basic human rights, without getting specific, and ambiguous, about society. What I meant is that the SGGS emphasizes accepting all people as they are without judgments, and focusing on your own negatives before trying to dictate others. IMO, these newer stances are putting the religion in a position that it doesn't belong, especially since it was victimized by people like that in the past.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLou11:</div><div class="quote_post">So you would support same-gender marriages to occur in your gurdwara? (I think that is church-equivalent in sikhism)</div>
Very good question (had to think about it for a while). The thing about marriages in the gurduwara is that there is a very religious focus on it. Sikh marriages have specific functions (procreation, helping one another become closer to God, etc.), so a marriage that doesn't embrace that (at least for that day) doesn't belong in it. Now, this doesn't mean that Sikhs should disapprove of gay's being married. But, the gurduwara demands a strictly religious aspect in marriage, that churches perhaps do not as much.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLou11:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh and have you ever heard of Khalistan Zindabad, or something like that? (what is it, I had a Sikh friend who always said it)</div>
Khalistan is a seperate nation that many Sikhs tend to call for (similar to Pakistan). The phrase "Khalistan Zindabad" literally means "Long live Khalistan." I have my own opinions/problems with this movement, but that would take a long time to explain.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLou11:</div><div class="quote_post">Anyway, I don't think believing Christians should engage in homosexual intercourse, if other religions or non-religious people choose to engage in such or have same-gender marriages, that is their own perogative.</div>
That's exactly how I feel. Throughout history, Sikhism has emphasized a focus on becoming "one with God," and instead of focusing too much on changing the opinions of other has taken a less abrasive approach. This newer stance is a contradiction, IMO.
 
Thanks for answering those questions Chutney, I do find it interesting.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">I read certain parts of it daily and I've read a lot of it. But it's huge (something like 1400 pages).</div>
Wow that is huge! I forget, are Sikhs supposed to wake up 3 hours before sunrise, bathe and say a specific prayer every day? and do Sikhs have the set prayers like muslims, or only the morning prayer, or none?

Do all Sikhs have to do the 5 Ks, or is it just the Sikhs who want to take it to the next level? (I know my wording is terrible regarding the subject)

I doubt you have visited the Golden Temple, just because I'm guessing you were born in Canada, but are Sikhs supposed to make a pilgrimmage to it like Muslims do to Mecca? or is it just significant due to the fact it was built by the 5th guru? (I think it was the 5th one, not sure).

Oh and what language is the SGGS written in?

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting Chutney:</div><div class="quote_post">That's exactly how I feel. Throughout history, Sikhism has emphasized a focus on becoming "one with God," and instead of focusing too much on changing the opinions of other has taken a less abrasive approach. This newer stance is a contradiction, IMO.</div>
Is it Sikh belief that Sikhs are absorbed into God? As in the person no longer exists but is apart of God? (I think that is kind similar to what Hindu's believe)

Sikh's believe in reincarnation right?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, I just had some off the top of my head.
 
<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLou11:</div><div class="quote_post">Wow that is huge! I forget, are Sikhs supposed to wake up 3 hours before sunrise, bathe and say a specific prayer every day? and do Sikhs have the set prayers like muslims, or only the morning prayer, or none?</div>
People say that you should wake up between 3AM -6AM, as it's the best time to do prayers. It's not a written command or anything. But, I have to get up at 5:30 most days to catch the damn train, so I catch that last half hour.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLou11:</div><div class="quote_post">Do all Sikhs have to do the 5 Ks, or is it just the Sikhs who want to take it to the next level? (I know my wording is terrible regarding the subject)</div>
Once you've become baptized, you're required to have all 5. Until then, it doesn't matter as much. I'm currently unbaptized and I have 3 (uncut hair, the iron bracelet, and the small comb).

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLou11:</div><div class="quote_post">I doubt you have visited the Golden Temple, just because I'm guessing you were born in Canada, but are Sikhs supposed to make a pilgrimmage to it like Muslims do to Mecca? or is it just significant due to the fact it was built by the 5th guru? (I think it was the 5th one, not sure).</div>
It's not an absolute requirement, like in Islam, but it definitely helps to provide a greater appreciation for the religion. I went when I was in Grade 1 and it looks like I might go this winter.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLou11:</div><div class="quote_post">Oh and what language is the SGGS written in?</div>
It's primarily written in Punjabi (Gurmukhi), but there are parts written in Persian, Urdu, Sanskrit, Hindi, etc.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLou11:</div><div class="quote_post">Is it Sikh belief that Sikhs are absorbed into God? As in the person no longer exists but is apart of God? (I think that is kind similar to what Hindu's believe)</div>
Something to that effect. Although no one knows for sure (it's not expressed directly, like the Bible) Sikhs tend to believe that we were seperated from God and that we return to him. A lot of these beliefs are shared with Hinduism or Islam (as they were the dominant religions when it was founded).

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLou11:</div><div class="quote_post">Sikh's believe in reincarnation right?</div>
A variation of reincarnation. We believe that you go through a life as every species (there was a number, that I can't remember), and that the human form is the once chance to reunite with God. If a person doesn't live a virtuous life devoted to God, then they begin the cycle all over again.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting SkiptoMyLou11:</div><div class="quote_post">Sorry for the barrage of questions, I just had some off the top of my head.</div>
No problem. I always enjoy explaining my faith to others.
 
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