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EPIC FAIL GILDERHUS said:
:confused:
Not trying to "make up your side" of the arguement...I agree that Miller has never led a team to a series win. I just don't agree with using someone's past history to make a judgment in the here and now. Before last year, people were saying that Kobe had never won a ring without Shaq-FACT. Before this year, people were saying that the Saints had never been to the Super Bowl, let alone won one-FACT. There's a first time for everything is all I'm saying, and if Miller is going to lead a team to the 2nd round, he's got a golden opportunity. Lets see if he's up to the challenge. :cheers:
Click to expand...

I'm not doing that, though. So, we agree ... on what, we're both not sure. :cheers:
 
Chuck Taylor said:
Time for a reality check.

Take out the preseason, and you have:

Regular Season
Game 1, Blazers win: Miller starts, Blake comes off bench
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore/_/id/291217022/phoenix-suns-vs-portland-trail-blazers
Game 2, Blazers win: Miller & Blake both start
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore/_/id/300210021/portland-trail-blazers-vs-phoenix-suns
Game 3, Blazers lose: Miller starts, Blake not on team
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore/_/id/300321021/portland-trail-blazers-vs-phoenix-suns

I don't think I need to link the playoff games, obviously Miller is 1-1 starting.

Thats a total of:
When Miller starts: 3-2
When Blake starts: 1-0

But really - whoopity doo! Everyone knows Nash is better than Miller. And everyone knows Miller is better than Blake. To think that Phoenix shouldn't have an edge at point guard is silly. But if Steve Nash "owns" Andre Miller, why won't his coach even let Nash guard him?
Click to expand...

Nash guarded him all night in game 2, what game were you watching?

Reality is the opposite of your method of picking only certain games in order to make Miller look better, or at least less worse.

And while he did sort of start Game 1 this season, he did so poorly that Nate benched him after only 18 minutes (he had a -7, worst on the team) and played Blake 38 minutes to put the brakes on the Suns. Great move as the aggressive combo of Blake and Bayless gave Jerryd his yearly "breakout game".

11 years of disappointing playoff fade-outs and playoff absences by Miller should have prepared you for this.

He out-Cliff's Uncle Cliffy.
 
MARIS61 said:
Nash guarded him all night in game 2, what game were you watching?
Click to expand...
Grant Hill guarded Miller a ton. That, and they sent a bunch of traps/double teams his way.

Reality is the opposite of your method of picking only certain games in order to make Miller look better, or at least less worse.
Click to expand...
Uh, you are the one who included the PRESEASON games! I took all the regular season games and both playoff games.

And while he did sort of start Game 1 this season, he did so poorly that Nate benched him after only 18 minutes (he had a -7, worst on the team) and played Blake 38 minutes to put the brakes on the Suns. Great move as the aggressive combo of Blake and Bayless gave Jerryd his yearly "breakout game".
Click to expand...
I was just showing that your evidence for your argument wasn't correct. I wasn't trying to prove that one player was better than another based on those win-loss records. It is obvious to everyone besides you that Nash > Miller > Blake...despite who won the preseason games :biglaugh:

11 years of disappointing playoff fade-outs and playoff absences by Miller should have prepared you for this.
Click to expand...
Prepared me for what? A split on the road against the Suns? I'm pretty darn happy with where the team is at.
 
Chuck Taylor said:
Grant Hill guarded Miller a ton. That, and they sent a bunch of traps/double teams his way.

True, but Nash guarded him all night, with help. You'd think Miller would have learned how to handle a simple double-team but guess not.

Uh, you are the one who included the PRESEASON games! I took all the regular season games and both playoff games.

Exactly. I took all the games, you took only the ones that helped your arguement.

Prepared me for what?

The 2nd most humiliating blowout in Blazers playoff history.
Click to expand...

No matter, I expect we'll rebound tomorrow night. Game 4 is the one I'm worried about.
 
MARIS61 said:
No matter, I expect we'll rebound tomorrow night. Game 4 is the one I'm worried about.
Click to expand...

I agree with this.

Maris, you are certainly the only one I've ever known to bring up preseason games in a playoff game debate.
 
I don't get all of these arguments. Isn't this a Blazer fan forum? Were heading home with a 1-1 split that very few expected. We were written off like we have been all season and surprised people. We come out in game 2 and play some of the worst basketball we'v played all year and the suns play great and suddnly people are acting like we have no hope of winning the series.
We are going home for the next two games having stolen home court vs a team that was considered the "hottest" in the league, and yet there are way to many people that are supposed to be fans that are again writing us off.
Its the playoffs. All that has happened in the past is the past because the playoffs mean EVERYTHING and we aren't going to roll over and let the suns do what they did to us last night for three more games.
Could we lose this series? Yea we could, we could also win it. So why don't we see more posts about cheering the Blazers on instead of the "THE WORLD IS ENDING OMG RUN FOR THE HILLS!" because we so happen to have been blown out in a game were we played like crap. Its a best of 7 series for a reason and we sure as hell will give the suns as good of a run as anyone else and in my opinion we will win it.
 
Is Maris61 the BendBlazer22 poster on O-Live?
 
I think it's true that we would do better against the Suns if Blake was here; but I think it's also good that he is gone. Blake was not our longterm answer at point guard, mostly because he doesn't have the tools to be an outstanding defender. By trading him we have created a situation where we can see that Bayless also is not the longterm answer. So we now know what our main priority needs to be in the off season, and I think that's important to know.
 
Chuck Taylor said:
I agree with this.

Maris, you are certainly the only one I've ever known to bring up preseason games in a playoff game debate.
Click to expand...

I always like to step back and take in the bigger picture, the whole enchilada.

As I've made quite clear countless times, I'm against censorship of any kind. Knowledge is power, and one only weakens oneself when they limit the information they receive.

I'm stubbornly American in that way, as opposed to being American Lite.
 
EPIC FAIL GILDERHUS said:
:confused:
Not trying to "make up your side" of the arguement...I agree that Miller has never led a team to a series win. I just don't agree with using someone's past history to make a judgment in the here and now. Before last year, people were saying that Kobe had never won a ring without Shaq-FACT. Before this year, people were saying that the Saints had never been to the Super Bowl, let alone won one-FACT. There's a first time for everything is all I'm saying, and if Miller is going to lead a team to the 2nd round, he's got a golden opportunity. Lets see if he's up to the challenge. :cheers:
Click to expand...

Yeah! Before we got SAR people said he'd never...oh wait, that one turned out to be dead on. :sigh:
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
I think it's true that we would do better against the Suns if Blake was here; but I think it's also good that he is gone. Blake was not our longterm answer at point guard, mostly because he doesn't have the tools to be an outstanding defender. By trading him we have created a situation where we can see that Bayless also is not the longterm answer. So we now know what our main priority needs to be in the off season, and I think that's important to know.
Click to expand...

That Bayless was not the future PG guy was obvious to most over a year ago, while both Steve and Sergio were outplaying him (at the point).

But it's likely the Clips wanted no part of Miller in place of Steve. They've been there, done that, and got nowhere with Miller. I'm pretty sure that's the only reason we traded Steve rather than Miller, and if that's so I support that move.

With Steve AND Camby, we'd be the favorite to win this series, but without Camby we'd have no hope at all.
 
MARIS61 said:
I always like to step back and take in the bigger picture, the whole enchilada.

As I've made quite clear countless times, I'm against censorship of any kind. Knowledge is power, and one only weakens oneself when they limit the information they receive.

I'm stubbornly American in that way, as opposed to being American Lite.
Click to expand...

There's a reason they don't include preseason stats in a player's yearly totals. It's because they're exhibition games! They don't count. The players know this. The coaches know this. The fans, with you being an exception, know this. How exhibition games should play into our playoff discussion is beyond me. And bringing censorship and patriotism into the mix? :biglaugh:
 
Chuck Taylor said:
There's a reason they don't include preseason stats in a player's yearly totals. It's because they're exhibition games! They don't count. The players know this. The coaches know this. The fans, with you being an exception, know this. How exhibition games should play into our playoff discussion is beyond me. And bringing censorship and patriotism into the mix? :biglaugh:
Click to expand...

Since the issue is comparing Blake's effectiveness against Nash to Miller's effectiveness against Nash, and Steve and Andre were battling for the starter position and their futures with the team during pre-season, it counts plenty. Also, if you remember, they were pretty intense games, with both sides going full bore to win.
 
To everyone who says Andre Miller has never left the first round and isn't a winner.

Neither has Grant Hill.

Yes, he's been injured most of his career and yes, his role is that of a role player and yes, he did torch us last game but Andre Miller is just as capable of torching the Suns and leading this TEAM to the next round.

Blowouts mean nothing. The Suns blew out the slow, half-court Spurs once.

But who went on to win that series and eventually, the championship?
 
Winning a road game and thus taking home court advantage was huge. The score of game 2 will not matter unless the series is lost in 7 games.

Meaning, the Blazers have to win their home games.
 
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