Four Meetings

[Natebishop3]

I think he might be moved to the injury list, DNP: Tanking

I'm not so sure anymore.

 

[andalusian]

I'm not so sure anymore.

Fair enough. If I were to guess, I still think this team wants a high pick this year and they are going to see if letting the young players play is enough or not - if they win despite the fact that the vets get tankanitis - the will be OK with it, if they can't, the team will be happy to take the higher draft odds.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Careful there most people don't call marijuana dope these days unless it's really good and then they might say it's really dope. When I hear someone say that someone else smokes dope, I think they're saying that the person free bases heroin. Dope over the years has evolved to mean much harder drugs than marijuana.

I I guess i am showing my age.

 

[Hoopguru]

Full Guide on Synonyms, Nicknames & Names for Weed - PlantInPlantInhttps://myplantin.com › weed › slang-names-for-weed

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Orrrrrrrrrrr he's out there with four really good defenders and we're covering for his warts, but Scoot is a better defender, better shooter right now, and just better overall.

Ayton is a worse defender than Ant.

Amazing the defense that Billups has the starters playing.

 

[e_blazer]

Orrrrrrrrrrr he's out there with four really good defenders and we're covering for his warts, but Scoot is a better defender, better shooter right now, and just better overall.

If you have a good offensive player who’s weak at the defensive end, wouldn’t it be better to play him with good defenders who can cover for him than to play a better defender in that spot? Pretty much makes the offensive stud unplayable when he doesn’t have great defenders covering for him.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Fair enough. If I were to guess, I still think this team wants a high pick this year and they are going to see if letting the young players play is enough or not - if they win despite the fact that the vets get tankanitis - the will be OK with it, if they can't, the team will be happy to take the higher draft odds.

Why do you think this?

I'm not seeing any of that. I see a Blazer team that wants to make a run at the playin and has more wins today than over 82 games last year. Last year we ended up with pick #7.

 

[Natebishop3]

If you have a good offensive player who’s weak at the defensive end, wouldn’t it be better to play him with good defenders who can cover for him than to play a better defender in that spot? Pretty much makes the offensive stud unplayable when he doesn’t have great defenders covering for him.

But Scoot has been outplaying Simons on both ends. So why not just start the guy who can play both ways?

 

[e_blazer]

But Scoot has been outplaying Simons on both ends. So why not just start the guy who can play both ways?

A. Not sure that’s true.

B. Because the weak defender doesn’t have a shot to make his offensive contributions at a time when he’s covered by better defenders.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

But Scoot has been outplaying Simons on both ends. So why not just start the guy who can play both ways?

I believe eBlazer point in that then your pairing Simons bad defense with Sharpe bad defense. Instead right now the best defenders are starting with Simons covering his D.

Scoot can bring his D on the 2nd unit where he doesn't require the same excellent defensive starters to play with him that Ant needs.

Not saying Id do the same move, and an element of it seems a little fucked up as you say if Scoot is outplaying a starter, but I can kind of see strategically the argument for that.

 

[andalusian]

Why do you think this?

I'm not seeing any of that. I see a Blazer team that wants to make a run at the playin and has more wins today than over 82 games last year. Last year we ended up with pick #7.

Because the GM and the coach are not the same person. The coach wants to win, especially since he is a lame duck coach at this point without an extension. The GM, I believe, would want to see what the young kids can do without the veterans for the rest of the year - and after the trade deadline he will give the marching orders.

That's my opinion and nothing more, I think the Blazers FO lets Billups play for wins before the trade deadline because it helps with some of the learning of the young players and helps build trade equity for the vets. Once the trade deadline has passed - whoever of the vets that remain do not need to be featured and the tank can start in earnest if the Blazers FO is still under the impression that this team still lacks some top-end talent.

So, that's my prediction for what's going to happen. If it does or not, I have no clue, but that is my logic based on what I have seen from the FO over the years and how much they seem to value the draft.

 

[Natebishop3]

A. Not sure that’s true.

B. Because the weak defender doesn’t have a shot to make his offensive contributions at a time when he’s covered by better defenders.

A lot of stats have been posted about Scoot vs Simons.

He has outshot Simons the past 15 games and the last 6 weeks. That’s really what Simons brings to the table, no?

 

[Natebishop3]

Because the GM and the coach are not the same person. The coach wants to win, especially since he is a lame duck coach at this point without an extension. The GM, I believe, would want to see what the young kids can do without the veterans for the rest of the year - and after the trade deadline he will give the marching orders.

That's my opinion and nothing more, I think the Blazers FO lets Billups play for wins before the trade deadline because it helps with some of the learning of the young players and helps build trade equity for the vets. Once the trade deadline has passed - whoever of the vets that remain do not need to be featured and the tank can start in earnest if the Blazers FO is still under the impression that this team still lacks some top-end talent.

So, that's my prediction for what's going to happen. If it does or not, I have no clue, but that is my logic based on what I have seen from the FO over the years and how much they seem to value the draft.

At some point I’m not sure why Simons or Grant would want to sit out. Simons is almost up for an extension. He wants to prove he’s worth the money.

 

[andalusian]

At some point I’m not sure why Simons or Grant would want to sit out. Simons is almost up for an extension. He wants to prove he’s worth the money.

Grant is already extended - so for him it is not a question. For Simons, I understand your point, I still think the team can promise him they will try to trade him in the off-season or that they know how good he is for his extension.

I still think that the FO wants that pick this year and will find a way to get it.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

A lot of stats have been posted about Scoot vs Simons.

He has outshot Simons the past 15 games and the last 6 weeks. That’s really what Simons brings to the table, no?

It's the Monte Ellis/Steph Curry thing all over again.

Ant is good but Scoot is so much higher on impact. Why not give him more responsibility as he's breaking out?

 

[STOMP]

Or perhaps the conductor knows just as well as we do that Simons is not long for this franchise, and thus doesn't want to waste his energy on him.

or perhaps he has, in fact I'd be surprised if he hadn't taken him to task many times over his D. But what is he going to do? Bench him in favor of his loafing youngins?

STOMP

 

[Phatguysrule]

or perhaps he has, in fact I'd be surprised if he hadn't taken him to task many times over his D. But what is he going to do? Bench him in favor of his loafing youngins?

STOMP

Absolutely. Sit them all and play Banton. We're better off losing anyway.

 

[blazerfan11]

It's the Monte Ellis/Steph Curry thing all over again.

Ant is good but Scoot is so much higher on impact. Why not give him more responsibility as he's breaking out?

Ellis and Curry played together for 2 seasons then Ellis was traded midway through Curry's 3rd season.

I wonder if that will happen with Simons and Scoot. Next season will be Scoot's third.

 

[Duckhook]

There's an excellent article in The Athletic by Jason Quick. Yeah, I know, a bunch of you just tuned out, but the story is worth reading since it gives a lot of insight as to what's been going on behind the scenes that led to the Blazers' recent winning streak. If you have a subscription, read the story. If not, here's a brief synopsis:

As Quick tells it, the Blazers' turnaround involved four meetings and it, "...started shortly after Christmas, on a practice day at the team’s facility. Billups was mad at Henderson and called him into his office."

"Billups played a collection of film clips in which Henderson was torched on defense.

“This is unacceptable,” Billups remembers telling Henderson. “This is so bad … at this point, you aren’t even competing!”"

Billups warned Scoot that he was going to start not playing because of his failings on defense. Henderson had been totally unaware of how bad it was. “It didn’t even seem like it was me, watching myself on defense. It was like, bro, that’s not even you on the clips. I know you can do better.” Henderson resolved to play better D, lit up a practice immediately after, and by Jan. 14 against Brooklyn, delivered his best game of the season. His defensive effort has been markedly better in the past few weeks.

The second meeting was with Shaedon Sharpe and the topic was again crappy defense. Chauncey told him that there would be consequences if he didn't start playing better defense. “What I can’t allow to happen on my watch is Shaedon to become a 22-point-per-game scorer, and not care about giving up 25." Not much changed in the next several games. Shaedon continued to cruise on the defensive end of the court. That led to a second meeting with Billups where he was told that he was being moved to the bench. Since then, Shaedon has been playing better D, but it's still a work in progress.

The fourth meeting was a team meeting to discuss holding each other accountable on the defensive end of the court. Billups had been watching a Golden State game where Payton blew a defensive assignment. Hield and Schröder got on his case about it, Payton acknowledged the mistake and then everyone just moved on without any hard feelings.

This was what Billups wanted for his team. The next morning, before playing the Clippers, Billups showed the Blazers the interaction between Payton, Hield and Schröder. He then went around the room asking each player if they could accept being called out by a teammate when they made a mistake. They all said that they could. Since then, the talking on defense has been better and the team's defense has taken immense strides.

It's an oversimplification to say that these four meetings are what's led to the turnaround, but they do show an intentionality on Billups' part to emphasize defense and to demand the best out of his players. Moving Shaedon and Scoot to the second unit has caused them both to play better. It seems to me that Ant also got the message as his work on the defensive end is looking better, at least to my eye. Most importantly, this team's energy seems to be ignited by playing great defense. Those steals and blocks at the end of the game last night, many of which led to runouts or lobs for easy baskets, were a joy to watch and you could see on the players' faces how much they were enjoying that style of play. I don't know how long this hot streak lasts or whether making the playoffs is in the cards, but I do believe that the team has finally found its identity and that is based on playing great defense.

Great synopsis, and actually good content from Quick. Let's hope this spirited defense continues as the rest of February gets tougher. Thanks for posting E!

 

[riverman]

On thing about the Scoot Ant comparison that is a factor..Scoot is coming off the bench playing against bench players more than Ant and Ant is double teamed where Scoot is left to shoot without the attention of the other team's best defender, advantage, Scoot. Scoot is so much better than Ant was in Ant's sophmore year though already..Ant is going into year 7

 

[THE HCP]

Nope what? Nope, Billups four meetings did not do it? Nope, MM will not apologize? Nope, Shaedon does not smoke dope?

Nope, I refuse to read anything by that asshat.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Nope, I refuse to read anything by that asshat.

I don't care what you say about him. @SlyPokerDog isn't that bad...

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't care what you say about him. @SlyPokerDog isn't that bad...

I have met Sly in person a number of times. He is definitely THAT bad.

 

[STOMP]

Absolutely. Sit them all and play Banton. We're better off losing anyway.

If management was down with your tanking is the only way to go this season philosophy, they'd have Billup's back with a contract extension and Banton & Co would be getting big minutes nightly

As it is Chauncey's coaching career sure isn't better off with more and more L's. Clearly the importance of the young talent that is already here is highly valued and management wants to bring them up in a competitive environment with winning games as a goal. The team isn't a math equation, it's made up of real people who they're trying to instill the right mentality/work habits in. Many in the "We" disagree with you as to what makes them better off including the team itself...

STOMP

 

[Phatguysrule]

If management was down with your tanking is the only way to go this season philosophy, they'd have Billup's back with a contract extension and Banton & Co would be getting big minutes nightly

As it is Chauncey's coaching career sure isn't better off with more and more L's. Clearly the importance of the young talent that is already here is highly valued and management wants to bring them up in a competitive environment with winning games as a goal. The team isn't a math equation, it's made up of real people who they're trying to instill the right mentality/work habits in. "We" disagree as to whats best for the team

STOMP

I think if you would have gotten rid of Ant and Grant and played Sharpe and Scoot heavy minutes to start the season they could have tried to win games and would have still lost more games. Even while instilling the right mentality and work habits.

That would be far better for them than punishing some players for not playing defense but not others.

I think both Sharpe and Scoot would be better off for it, as would Banton, and we'd likely have half as many wins.

At no point did I suggest players should be doing anything other than trying to win.

A huge part of my concern is that management doesn't seem to agree that we need more talent and Chauncey doesn't seem to agree that all players should be held accountable for playing shit defense.

 

[STOMP]

I think if you would have gotten rid of Ant and Grant and played Sharpe and Scoot heavy minutes to start the season they could have tried to win games and would have still lost more games. Even while instilling the right mentality and work habits.

That would be far better for them than punishing some players for not playing defense but not others.

I think both Sharpe and Scoot would be better off for it, as would Banton, and we'd likely have half as many wins.

At no point did I suggest players should be doing anything other than trying to win.

A huge part of my concern is that management doesn't seem to agree that we need more talent and Chauncey doesn't seem to agree that all players should be held accountable for playing shit defense.

Why insist on beating the same dead horse with me on subjects we've already gone over umpteen times? I disagree that they could just "get rid" of certain players as thats not reality. I disagree that Sharpe and Scoot aren't getting enough minutes this season to develop. I am pleased with the young talent already here and like the way they're bringing them along. Playing your worst players ahead of better players is absolutely telling your young talent that you're trying to lose... good grief

STOMP

 

[Phatguysrule]

Why insist on beating the same dead horse with me on subjects we've already gone over umpteen times? I disagree that they could just "get rid" of certain players as thats not reality. I disagree that Sharpe and Scoot aren't getting enough minutes this season to develop. I am pleased with the young talent already here and like the way they're bringing them along. Playing your worst players ahead of better players is absolutely telling your young talent that you're trying to lose... good grief

STOMP

But I'm not advocating for playing our worst players over our best players...

You seem to keep implying things I'm not saying, so I'm clarifying.

If you're sitting Sharpe and Scoot for not playing defense you should definitely not be playing Simons. Or arguably Grant.

I think we could have almost certainly unloaded Grant to the Lakers and Simons to Orlando. We may not have gotten back a first round pick, but those guys should no longer be on this roster.

That's going to cost us what could have been a top 5 pick in this super loaded draft.

 

[HailBlazers]

This is why I've preferred Billups over Stotts.

 

[STOMP]

But I'm not advocating for playing our worst players over our best players...

You seem to keep implying things I'm not saying.

what are you talking about? When I was discussing the young players and Ant with another poster, you responded... "Sit them all and play Banton. We're better off losing anyway."

You are advocating playing the team's worst player(s) over their best players and their young talent to do your desired tank. It's not implying it's what you wrote. And I'm sure the whole board is crystal clear on this being your stance, no need to sideswipe every conversation

STOMP

 

[Phatguysrule]

what are you talking about? When I was discussing the young players and Ant with another poster, you responded... "Sit them all and play Banton. We're better off losing anyway."

You are advocating playing the team's worst player(s) over their best players and their young talent to do your desired tank. It's not implying it's what you wrote

STOMP

You're mistaken in what I was saying.

I'm advocating for punishing players equally for not playing defense.

If you're sitting Scoot and Sharpe but not Simons you're already playing worse players ahead of better players (at this point).

If you're going to punish players for shit defense, you just as well sit Simons and play Banton.