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oldfisherman said:
Only 12.8 to 16 joules of energy?

The average persons fist punch has 100-200 joules of energy. Pro boxers can hit 400 joules.

Not sure someone on meth would even notice being hit with this self defense toy.
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You feel like you are a target for methheads to break into your home?
 
oldfisherman said:
Only 12.8 to 16 joules of energy?

The average persons fist punch has 100-200 joules of energy. Pro boxers can hit 400 joules.

Not sure someone on meth would even notice being hit with this self defense toy.
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Energy alone is absolutely insufficient to judge that question. A 9mm bullet imparts approximately 855 J of energy. You don't honestly believe that an average fist punch is 1/6 as destructive as a bullet, do you?

This size projectile at 330 fps and 16 joules of energy would be quite painful. And if someone were concerned that the impact pain would be insufficient, they also have pepper-spray and even tear-gas filled ammunition to incapacitate the "meth-heads".

You're arrogantly and ignorantly dismissing a viable non-lethal alternative without adequate information.
 
oldfisherman said:
Only 12.8 to 16 joules of energy?

The average persons fist punch has 100-200 joules of energy. Pro boxers can hit 400 joules.

Not sure someone on meth would even notice being hit with this self defense toy.
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That reminds me, I'll start keeping my laser pointer at my bed side. That's like 0.5j flickering.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Energy alone is absolutely insufficient to judge that question. A 9mm bullet imparts approximately 855 J of energy. You don't honestly believe that an average fist punch is 1/6 as destructive as a bullet, do you?

This size projectile at 330 fps and 16 joules of energy would be quite painful. And if someone were concerned that the impact pain would be insufficient, they also have pepper-spray and even tear-gas filled ammunition to incapacitate the "meth-heads".

You're arrogantly and ignorantly dismissing a viable non-lethal alternative without adequate information.
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Kind sir,

Yes I am ignorant, due to 60 years of shooting a very large variety and types of weapons, 20 years competitively, and 6 years in the Marine Corps. I am completely ignorant how to calculate the power of each weapon.

And yes, I believe my numbers on the power of a fist punch are correct, do some research.

I agree this is non-lethal, but it is not a self defense weapon, other than looking like one.

To be fair. Given the speed, weight, and size of the round. It would be similiar to being hit with a hammer that was moving at a slow speed. Most people would feel the impact, but with little to no pain. Depending on where the round landed. The difference in speed is to balance the much heavier weight of the hammer.
 
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THE HCP said:
Wow crickets…..mass shooting of innocent children in Kansas City…..doesn’t even register anymore. That’s almost as sad as the actual shooting. Pro gun peeps must be busy mailing there love and prayers to the victims and their families.
Oh well on to the next one.
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What failed here that caused this?
 
Kano John said:
Yes - thoughts and prayers for the victims but don't send us any gun control laws because the NRA gives us too much money to vote for them.
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What gun control law has ever actually reduced violent crime or murder rates a significant amount? Would you feel better if these people were run over by a semi truck?
 
PtldPlatypus said:
When firearm advocates reference home defense as the justification for gun ownership, I always think about these things.

https://byrna.com/collections/byrna-non-lethal-guns

Seems like someone could protect their home and loved ones with one of these without increasing anyone's chances of dying.
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Not a bad option. About the same price as a Glock. More expensive than some others... Typically if you don’t need a lethal option, you don’t need to engage at all. If you NEED to engage, I wouldn’t bet my (and my family’s) life on less-lethal.
There are 400 million guns in the US. If the good guys don't have guns they will be at a disadvantage to the bad guys.
Even if I don't have a gun, the bad guy might. I don't want to be in the position of wishing I did.

Again, it's not a bad option. But it's simply not the force multiplier that a gun is.
 
Kano John said:
How would one even quantify that?
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You'd look at a gun control measure, pay attention to when it became law, and then see if violent crime and/or murder rates changed at all. If not, it probably didn't have much of an impact.

I've dug around quite a bit and never found much consistency. Gun control doesn't seem to have any significant impact from everything I've seen.

The bigger impact seems to be around increased access to education, healthcare, and generous social safety nets. Though, having an education and rehabilitation based judicial and prison system seems to help as well (think Germany and Nordic and Scandinavian countries) as opposed to a more restitution and punishment based systems like ours here in the US.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
You'd look at a gun control measure, pay attention to when they became law, and then see if violent crime and/or murder rates changed at all. If not, it probably didn't have much of an impact.

I've dug around quite a bit and never found much consistency. Gun control doesn't seem to have any significant impact from everything I've seen.

The bigger impact seems to be around increased access to education, healthcare, and generous social safety nets. Though, having an education and rehabilitation based judicial and prison system seems to help as well (think Germany and nordic and scandinavian countries) as opposed to a more restitution and punishment based systems like ours here in the US.
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You are absolutely correct. But that doesn't stop people from trying to deceive people with misleading statistics.

One recent example, proponents of Oregon measure 114 talked about how the homicide rate in vermont fell 33% after they passed a strict gun control law.

Which was true, it fell from 3 per 100k to 2 per 100k. But what they didn't tell folks is that the year after it went back up to higher than it was before the law and kept on climbing.
 
The USA has the highest gun ownership rate in the world. Indonesia has one of the lowest rates. However, Indonesia's murder rate is 46% higher than the USA.
 
oldfisherman said:
The USA has the highest gun ownership rate in the world. Indonesia has one of the lowest rates. However, Indonesia's murder rate is 46% higher than the USA.
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Even among countries seemingly more similar tham that. The UK has very low gun ownership rates. Most Nordic and Scandinavian countries have far higher gun ownership rates (with some of the highest rates of homes with a gun in the world).

Yet the UK has far higher violent crime and murder rates than most Nordic and Scandinavian countries.

Again. Even though many of those Nordic and Scandinavian countries have higher gun crime rates, violent crime and murder in the UK is a much bigger problem.
 
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On the afternoon of July 14, 2023, a vehicle accident occurred on a busy street, prompting a response from the police department and fire department. Four police officers were attending the scene by the time of the ambush.

Barakat came across the scene while driving to an unknown destination and was observed on video to have circled the scene for approximately 15 minutes before parking his vehicle adjacent to the site of the accident. At around 3:04 p.m., Barakat exited his vehicle wearing a tactical vest carrying several magazines and carrying a .223-caliber rifle equipped with a binary trigger and double-stacked high-capacity magazines capable of holding up to 60 rounds. Barakat opened fire on 3 police officers from approximately 15 to 20 feet away, using his vehicle as cover. Officers Andrew Dotas and Tyler Hawes were immediately incapacitated after sustaining multiple gunshot wounds and could be seen lying motionless in bodycam video. Officer Jake Wallin approached Barakat's vehicle during the gunfire and was able to fire a single round before being killed by a single shot from Barakat. Barakat then fired upon Karlee Koswick, a fleeing bystander who was involved in the traffic accident, wounding her with two gunshots. The binary trigger on Barakat's semi-automatic rifle enabled rapid gunfire against the officers, one of whom thought he had an "AK-47".

A fourth police officer, Officer Zach Robinson, who was uninjured in the initial barrage of gunfire, engaged Barakat in a brief shootout. Robinson returned fire, striking Barakat and disabling his rifle. Barakat then withdrew one of two handguns he had on his person while wounded on the ground and continued to try and point his firearm at Robinson, despite repeated demands to drop his weapon from Robinson, until he was instantly killed by several shots towards the head. Robinson fired a total of 31 rounds during the altercation, 21 of which struck Barakat.

Officer Jake Wallin, a former Minnesota National Guardsman, was killed in the ambush. He'd been with the department for just 3 months.

Fargo Police Officers Andrew Dotas and Tyler Hawes were injured.

Karlee Koswick (a bystander) was also injured.

 
THE HCP said:
You feel like you are a target for methheads to break into your home?
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Sorry for being rude. My fuse has been short lately.

I do not feel like a target, despite having a serious run in with a druggy that shot and killed my puppy that went on a walkbout. The druggy stays very far away from me now. And everyone is watching him.

I can not find anyplace to live, anywhere, to get away from this drug problem.

I live in a very rural area. For some reason, people move here thinking they can have a meth lab, and no one will know, wrong.

An example, a young couple moved here and rented a house. In about a week, their meth lab blew up, burning down the house. The young couple got out OK, but, their two preschool kids did not.
 
Former NRA head Wayne LaPierre is found liable of corruption after lavishing his employer's funds on private jets and accepting expensive presents
  • Wayne LaPierre should now repay the powerful gun rights group $4.3 million in damages for mismanagement and misspending charitable funds
  • The jury found the New York Attorney General’s Office proved he violated his fiduciary duties from 2014 to 2022 when he was at the helm of the non-profit
  • Jury found he caused $5.4m damages to the NRA by violating his statutory duties
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Former NRA head Wayne LaPierre is found liable of corruption after lavishing his employer's funds on private jets and accepting expensive presents
  • Wayne LaPierre should now repay the powerful gun rights group $4.3 million in damages for mismanagement and misspending charitable funds
  • The jury found the New York Attorney General’s Office proved he violated his fiduciary duties from 2014 to 2022 when he was at the helm of the non-profit
  • Jury found he caused $5.4m damages to the NRA by violating his statutory duties
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He was always a freaking shyster. He turned the NRA from a safety organization into a corrupt cesspool.
 
I cant help to think that again the border will be an issue for upcoming election. Reform and management need to be addressed, imo.
 
Hoopguru said:
I cant help to think that again the border will be an issue for upcoming election. Reform and management need to be addressed, imo.
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The border is no worse now than it was under Trump.

I don't see a significant amount of leverage for either Trump or Biden regarding the border.
 
Phatguysrule said:
The border is no worse now than it was under Trump.

I don't see a significant amount of leverage for either Trump or Biden regarding the border.
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Biden has been trying to do something about it, and the Republican controlled house and Senate have been trying to stop him to appease Trump and make Biden look worse.
 
Chris Craig said:
Biden has been trying to do something about it, and the Republican controlled house and Senate have been trying to stop him to appease Trump and make Biden look worse.
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Certainly. But even with that. The border is not a worse situation now.
 
Phatguysrule said:
The border is no worse now than it was under Trump.

I don't see a significant amount of leverage for either Trump or Biden regarding the border.
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Down t say it was only that it could be a key issue. I have and do believe reform and improved management of the border is needed.
 
Hoopguru said:
Down t say it was only that it could be a key issue. I have and do believe reform and improved management of the border is needed.
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It is absolutely needed. 100%.

We need to create immigration cities which are policed and have the protection of the US military. In which immigrants can come and be safe, in which manufacturing businesses have locations for the immigrants to work. This will allow other services to set up shop, which will make even more opportunity for immigrants to work while waiting and saving for approval for entry.

There are plenty of immigrants who have skills. And there are plenty who just want to work for fair pay. And we're going to be running incredibly short on labor here in the US.

It would pay for itself and be a superior situation than what we have now.

You can reject the criminals and help the legit people find better situations. And they can be in a safe and secure location being productive while they wait.

Now, only the criminals need to sneak in. We can have the entire border patrolled with drones equipped with night vision and infrared for 5 miles on either side and pick up anybody who tries to sneak in outside the designated checkpoints.

Problem is, it would eliminate a marginalized population that bith Dems and Republicans rely on for cheap labor and other illicit tasks.
 
oldfisherman said:
What?

According to PEW research, a liberal propaganda machine. Under Trump, the southern border immigration was as low as 304,000 per year. But spiked to 1.6+ million when Biden took office.

Today, the number has reached about 3.5 million per year. More than 10 times under Trump.

https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/FT_21.11.01_MexicoBorder_1a.png?w=640
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Yeah. Under Trump nobody wanted into the US because we were a hot zone of Covid infected MAGA fools who refused to listen to or believe doctors.

I don't think making the US a trash heap that even desperate immigrants from war torn countries avoid is considered a good thing.

I'm certainly not interested in going back to that...

Also, under Trump what qualifies as a "migrant encounter" was changed drastically, so records on that are not reliable.
 
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