Notice From My Cold Dead Hands......

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Phatguysrule said:
But the problem is that the left hasn't said "ok, let's spend money on mental health".

They've kept pushing for more gun restrictions while also trying to pass unpopular healthcare plans.

That's my problem with the left. They aren't really trying to fix anything. Mostly just playing politics.
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They have. It's just been part of larger bills that have been turned down by republicans.


The Dems have spent alot more time actually trying to fix things then the republicans.
 
OB

What current gun laws in Oregon are you for and which against?
 
Phatguysrule said:
But the problem is that the left hasn't said "ok, let's spend money on mental health".

They've kept pushing for more gun restrictions while also trying to pass unpopular healthcare plans.

That's my problem with the left. They aren't really trying to fix anything. Mostly just playing politics.
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The failure of the BBB bill shows that you can not just lump items together in this version of the senate. The bills need to be simpler and stand on their own to pass legislation, unfortunately.
 
Chris Craig said:
I'm saying we can. It'll take different things to curve each. I'm saying let's focus on solutions rather than continue fighting about the problem.
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The problem being being dying of violence, correct?

I'm still waiting for evidence of significant reductions in violent crime or murder rates as a result to gun control.

If we've taken every dangerous person's guns away (which we can't do, but that's another discussion) and people are just using arson, poison, bombs, cars, etc to kill just as many people... What have we solved?

I've never seen a gun control law that reduced violent crime or murder rates when compared to the rates of similar regions over the same time period.
 
Phatguysrule said:
The problem being being dying of violence, correct?

I'm still waiting for evidence of significant reductions in violent crime or murder rates as a result to gun control.

If we've taken every dangerous person's guns away (which we can't do, but that's another discussion) and people are just using arson, poison, bombs, cars, etc to kill just as many people... What have we solved?

I've never seen a gun control law that reduced violent crime or murder rates when compared to the rates of similar regions over the same time period.
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You are being over dramatic. I know we can't take all the guns away from all bad people, the mentally ill, children or stop them all from getting them. We can stop some of them.

Those numbers will never get to zero. I don't expect them too. We can stop alot of them. We can save a lot of lives.
 
Phatguysrule said:
The problem being being dying of violence, correct?

I'm still waiting for evidence of significant reductions in violent crime or murder rates as a result to gun control.

If we've taken every dangerous person's guns away (which we can't do, but that's another discussion) and people are just using arson, poison, bombs, cars, etc to kill just as many people... What have we solved?

I've never seen a gun control law that reduced violent crime or murder rates when compared to the rates of similar regions over the same time period.
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Think arson or poisoning would have got this kid instead? Maybe a bomb?

https://www.yourbasin.com/news/peop...te-governor-about-gun-law-killed-in-shooting/
 
HailBlazers said:
IP 17, IP 18 coming to a ballot near you.
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For those who don't know what he's talking about.

FEg7LdfVIAMKUuE


FEg7UJEVgAMIrw2
 
donkiez said:
Think arson or poisoning would have got this kid instead? Maybe a bomb?

https://www.yourbasin.com/news/peop...te-governor-about-gun-law-killed-in-shooting/
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Terrible. Accidents do happen.

I didn't see any statistics or data draw any conclusions from. I don't even know any of the details of this case.

Sure, Arson could have got him. Bomb. Poison. Automobile could have run him over if he were crossing the street at the same time the target was... Yeah, lots of possibilities.

I've posted data showing that violent crime and murder rates haven't been impacted by gun control in any statistically significant way. Nobody seems able to prove that wrong, but rather they try to change the subject.

If it were so clear, wouldn't it be easier to prove?
 
SlyPokerDog said:
For those who don't know what he's talking about.

FEg7LdfVIAMKUuE


FEg7UJEVgAMIrw2
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So basically

IP17:

  • Requires and permit and firearms training to buy a gun
  • Creates a database for said permits
  • Bans magazines over 10 rounds

IP18:

  • Bans semiautomatic weapons but let's those who already own them keep them as long as they notify the state police.
I get being upset with the magazines and semis being banned ...though you keep your guns.

Why shouldn't people take a safety course or have a permit if they have a gun? We already have concealed carry permits here which have a database.
 
Chris Craig said:
Why shouldn't people take a safety course or have a permit if they have a gun? We already have concealed carry permits here which have a database.
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It will lead the state and feds to identify everyone by numbers.

Imagine having one number associated with your name that could bring up things like your taxes, credit, different shit like that.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Terrible. Accidents do happen.

I didn't see any statistics or data draw any conclusions from. I don't even know any of the details of this case.

Sure, Arson could have got him. Bomb. Poison. Automobile could have run him over if he were crossing the street at the same time the target was... Yeah, lots of possibilities.

I've posted data showing that violent crime and murder rates haven't been impacted by gun control in any statistically significant way. Nobody seems able to prove that wrong, but rather they try to change the subject.

If it were so clear, wouldn't it be easier to prove?
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Australia
 
SlyPokerDog said:
It will lead the state and feds to identify everyone by numbers.

Imagine having one number associated with your name that could bring up things like your taxes, credit, different shit like that.
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Good point

But we are already all identified by numbers

Social Security Numbers, driver's licence numbers on etc.

Big brother has been watching

I guess it's a matter of how much do we want them to watch.
 
Notice how we don't require airbags on bicycles but we don't allow kids to drive cars?
 
THE HCP said:
These people gun people are fucking nuts!
Just like they don’t take COVID serious! I’ve seen people shot and killed…. If they have, they wouldn’t want guns to be legal. Seeing hot metal shred through flesh is not something you want engrained in your memory bank.
So frustrating.
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The problem though is that guns already exist and are everywhere. At this point all any legal gun owner wants is to have the means to protect themselves and their family from the carnage you described, which many of us on both sides of this argument have indeed witnessed and would not like to be on the receiving end of.

If you could snap your fingers and make it to where guns never existed, hell yeah I’m on board. Unfortunately that’s not the reality we live in. I don’t really know what the answer is, but as long as we live in a country full of crazy people I don’t intend to be easy prey.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Selling too many hunting licenses is up to the ODFW... Selling fewer and you'll have more Mule deer. Nobody's rights need restricted.
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Shouldn't the deer be allowed to purchase a nonhunting license?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Most hunting rifles made in the last 50-75 years are semiautomatic... This proposal makes absolutely no sense.
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You get to keep them

But yeah says one thing and then the other. Basically it's to stop them from being manufactured or sold here.
 
donkiez said:
Australia
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Nope. My numbers included Australia. US violent crime and murder rates have dropped just as much as Australia. And twice as much as the UK. While the US has more than doubled the number of guns and let the assault weapons ban expire. Australia actually has more guns now than they did when instituted their sweeping gun legislation.
 
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Chris Craig said:
You get to keep them

But yeah says one thing and then the other. Basically it's to stop them from being manufactured or sold here.
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So it's pointless and has no chance of passing.

More people are killed with blunt objects than are killed with rifles of any kind. I'd much rather be shot with a semiautomatic rifle than beaten to death with a bat... 4x as many are killed by knives...
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....019/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8.xls
 
Phatguysrule said:
Nope. My numbers included Australia. US violent crime and murder rates have dropped just as much as Australia. And twice as much as the UK. While the US has more than double the number of guns and let the assault weapons ban expire. Australia actually has more guns now than they did when instituted their sweeping gun legislation.
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The problem with "my" numbers is that everyone will always use a metric that supports their argument. For instance the murder rate in the US is 5x more than Australia and 4x more than the UK. Homicide by firearm is 30x greater in the US than Australia.

Also Japan literally has zero firearm homicides and the US has 13x more overall murders.

The US has 280 more school shootings than the next country on the list, which is Mexico at 8.

People kill each other on purpose and accident but to pretend guns play no role in that and don't make it easier is beyond head in the sand thinking.
 
jonnyboy said:
The problem though is that guns already exist and are everywhere. At this point all any legal gun owner wants is to have the means to protect themselves and their family from the carnage you described, which many of us on both sides of this argument have indeed witnessed and would not like to be on the receiving end of.

If you could snap your fingers and make it to where guns never existed, hell yeah I’m on board. Unfortunately that’s not the reality we live in. I don’t really know what the answer is, but as long as we live in a country full of crazy people I don’t intend to be easy prey.
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I don't buy the argument that the problem is too bad, so let's do nothing. If we did something 20 years ago the problem would not be this bad today. And if we do something (anything) today then the problem will be less bad in 20 years. Also let's not pretend that people are realisticlly asking for or expecting a complete ban on all firearms and to disarm law abiding citizen. That's just a red herring
 
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