Notice From My Cold Dead Hands...... (5 Viewers)

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Phatguysrule said:
And any gun shop or private sale can require whatever they want as well...
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So what?

I'm not comparing cars to guns. That's apples and oranges.
 
Orion Bailey said:
https://everytownresearch.org/repor...gun-in-public-with-no-permit-and-no-training/

the point is we are stricter on those with cars than with guns. Does kinda seem backwards.
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This is a false statement.
That is unless you can show the law which requires background check, registering or licensing to purchase a vehicle or complete a title transfer.

Nobody has any problem with private businesses requiring whatever they want for gun sales.

The concern is about the law.
 
RR7 said:
I suppose I could try to google it, and I'm not arguing or disputing, just honestly have no idea, what is exactly required of gun owners, let's say in Oregon?
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Background checks, including on all private sales.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Background checks, including on all private sales.
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but is that "more"? If one requires a background check, but no license or registration, and one requires a license and registration but no background check, it seems more like a different limit, but not necessarily more
 
RR7 said:
but is that "more"? If one requires a background check, but no license or registration, and one requires a license and registration but no background check, it seems more like a different limit, but not necessarily more
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There is no law requiring any of that for the purchase of a car.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I believe El Prez thought you were mocking the kid.
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The fuck!? I’m mocking the asshats who believe their rights to own guns is more important than that of the lives of kids.
You’d think he’d know this about me.
 
THE HCP said:
The fuck!? I’m mocking the asshats who believe their rights to own guns is more important than that of the lives of kids.
You’d think he’d know this about me.
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In the United States, kids are 20x more likely to be killed by their parents than by a gun in school.

Parents killing their children is typically referred to as filicide, so that's the keyword you'll want to use if doing more research. According to this CNN article (https://www.cnn.com/2017/07/07/health/filicide-parents-killing-kids-stats-trnd/index.html ) and this research paper (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5282617/), there are ~500 arrests yearly for filicide.

This paper states ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2922347/ ) it's around 8\100,000 for infants, and 1.5\100,000 for school-aged children (death rate).

With 56 million K-12 students (https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372 ), that's ~840 murders each year.

The original FBI Active Shooter (Phase 1) report ( https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-study-2000-2013-1.pdf ) identified 160 active shooter scenarios. This resulted in a total casualty rate of ~1000 and an average casualty rate (injury and death) of ~6.5 per incident. The FBI report's numbers were 2 deaths\2 injuries median per incident, the average are mine based on the reported numbers.

For context, that's all scenarios they felt were active shooters (not just school shootings) between 2000 and 2013.

Historically when I make this argument, I think I've generally used a liberal estimate of ~25 student deaths per year due to shootings, which I think is fairly evident from this short review is way too high.

An important caveat to all this is that these numbers are incredibly low to begin with. We have years were there are no shootings, or a shooting results in 60 people dying at once, so any changes is volatile to the numbers.
 
No point arguing. The people who think guns should be gone will always think they should be gone. The people who don't think we should give up our gun rights will always think that way.

I would just like to point out that when that fucktard drove through a children's parade and killed 6 people and injured 62 others, did anyone talk about anything other than the shitbag who did it? Nope. Because shootings are literally the only time we seem to blame the inanimate object and not the person who wields it. People can't wait to jump on social media and start screaming about gun control after a shooting. Has anything been done in the past 20 years to address the actual root of the problem? Has anything been done to combat the actual reason for the shootings and not the method?
 
THE HCP said:
Why are you quoting me on this? I already shared this.
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This is the way it was posted, It made it look like the dead HS kid was talking about gun rights since they are in quotes above him, as if he were a gun rights advocate and then ironically got shot by a gun.


Screenshot_20211201-231504_Chrome.jpg
 
Natebishop3 said:
No point arguing. The people who think guns should be gone will always think they should be gone. The people who don't think we should give up our gun rights will always think that way.

I would just like to point out that when that fucktard drove through a children's parade and killed 6 people and injured 62 others, did anyone talk about anything other than the shitbag who did it? Nope. Because shootings are literally the only time we seem to blame the inanimate object and not the person who wields it. People can't wait to jump on social media and start screaming about gun control after a shooting. Has anything been done in the past 20 years to address the actual root of the problem? Has anything been done to combat the actual reason for the shootings and not the method?
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Many news media said a van crashed into a crowd.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
Many news media said a van crashed into a crowd.
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EL PRESIDENTE said:
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I'm not sure how that's anything other than reporting the news. Was anyone blaming the SUV? Was there serious calls for SUV reform? Of course not. I'm talking about blame. Reporting that there's a shooting isn't the same as immediately jumping on social media and screaming about gun control. If a nerdy high school kid stole his parents car and drove it into the high school marching band, would anyone blame it on the car?
 
Natebishop3 said:
I'm not sure how that's anything other than reporting the news. Was anyone blaming the SUV? Was there serious calls for SUV reform? Of course not. I'm talking about blame. Reporting that there's a shooting isn't the same as immediately jumping on social media and screaming about gun control. If a nerdy high school kid stole his parents car and drove it into the high school marching band, would anyone blame it on the car?
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It's complicated. In the suv terrorist attack, people are saying the media is protecting this BLM terrorist by calling it a SUV crash instead of a racially motivated terrorist attack, which it was
 
Natebishop3 said:
No point arguing. The people who think guns should be gone will always think they should be gone. The people who don't think we should give up our gun rights will always think that way.

I would just like to point out that when that fucktard drove through a children's parade and killed 6 people and injured 62 others, did anyone talk about anything other than the shitbag who did it? Nope. Because shootings are literally the only time we seem to blame the inanimate object and not the person who wields it. People can't wait to jump on social media and start screaming about gun control after a shooting. Has anything been done in the past 20 years to address the actual root of the problem? Has anything been done to combat the actual reason for the shootings and not the method?
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Bingo. The push for gun control is a waste of time. It's absolutely detrimental to progress toward any actual solutions.
 
Chris Craig said:
Who in the hell brought it up?
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Hoopguru said:
We need stricter gun control laws like owning a vehicle or boat.
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And I appreciate that Hoopguru brought it up. It's good to look at all of these arguments which are often brought up and dissect them.

Once we look at the data and see the actual scope of the problem and how expensive and ineffective the current proposed solutions are we can hope to have a meaningful discussion about solutions which can a actually make a difference.
 
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EL PRESIDENTE said:
It's complicated. In the suv terrorist attack, people are saying the media is protecting this BLM terrorist by calling it a SUV crash instead of a racially motivated terrorist attack, which it was
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Funny because that's exactly what I thought it was when I first heard about it.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I want a solution. The most effective and efficient solution which solves the most problems.

Guns don't make anybody crazy enough to kill people. We're doing that.

Making fewer people crazy should be the goal, not restricting the rights of the law abiding citizens who commit less crime than nearly any other demographic in this country.

What frustrates me is the partisanship we allow to be involved in this conversation.

If Hillary Clinton had dropped her support (crusade? ) for increasing gun control and instead focused all of that energy on solving the problem via social reforms by increasing access to healthcare, education, and improving the social safety net she would have destroyed Trump and we'd be in a much better place as a country right now.

But the problem is the political machine we have (which Hillary helped shape) dictates that anybody who isn't pushing gun restrictions as the only solution to gun crime is an insane gun nut who just wants to kill democrats by the hundreds.
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Guns are the low hanging fruit.
 
Phatguysrule said:
There has never been a gun control law ever passed that has resulted in significantly lower violent crime or murder rates. Like that were obviously distinct from trends in similar countries.

So there can be no evidence that it works. Gun restrictions are a lost cause. There is just as much evidence that they might not work as there is that they might work.

We KNOW and can PROVE that the other social reforms are far more effective than any gun control ever has been.

Tying those with gun control is a great way to make sure those reforms never actually happen.
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How many times do I have to say it, gun control is next to useless unless it's nationally enforced for obvious reasons.
 
Natebishop3 said:
No point arguing. The people who think guns should be gone will always think they should be gone. The people who don't think we should give up our gun rights will always think that way.

I would just like to point out that when that fucktard drove through a children's parade and killed 6 people and injured 62 others, did anyone talk about anything other than the shitbag who did it? Nope. Because shootings are literally the only time we seem to blame the inanimate object and not the person who wields it. People can't wait to jump on social media and start screaming about gun control after a shooting. Has anything been done in the past 20 years to address the actual root of the problem? Has anything been done to combat the actual reason for the shootings and not the method?
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next time a Car rams a crowd, im blaming these guys:

https://www.scca.com/pages/club-racing


Bout the logic as blaming the nra for a mass shooting…


“We need equality! We need to take care of all!”( which is good)

but lets dismiss the mental issues of the disturbed and focus efforts on an inanimate object…

(which is extremely hypocritical to the first quoted line)
 
Lanny said:
Guns are the low hanging fruit.
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But isn't the low hanging fruit the easiest, most accessable?

It's impossible to get rid of guns in the US. Gun control can not work here. I don't see how it can be low hanging.

I'd say it's more like the bait in a never ending trap. It distracts you enough to keep you from finding the good stuff just around the corner.
 
Lanny said:
How many times do I have to say it, gun control is next to useless unless it's nationally enforced for obvious reasons.
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It has been nationally enforced in other countries. And none of them have larger drops in violent crime or murder rates.

Australia has more guns now than it did in the 90s before gun control, and US violence has dropped more than all of Australia, the UK, and Brazil... Brazil actually got worse. Mexico has gun laws similar to the UK. And only 1 gun store in the whole country.

Gun control has never been beneficial to any population anywhere in the world.
 
Orion Bailey said:
next time a Car rams a crowd, im blaming these guys:

https://www.scca.com/pages/club-racing


Bout the logic as blaming the nra for a mass shooting…


“We need equality! We need to take care of all!”( which is good)

but lets dismiss the mental issues of the disturbed and focus efforts on an inanimate object…

(which is extremely hypocritical to the first quoted line)
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The focus needs to be both on mental health and guns. Not one or the other. We need to keep guns out of mentally ill people's hands. Parents need to put in an effort to keep guns out of their kids hands.

This kid was online saying the gun was his and did a countdown to killing people. The dad was in to see the principal about it the morning of and he didn't go and check to make sure his gun was safe?

There needs to be focus from all points in this. That's how a massive issue like this gets solved.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I would just like to point out that when that fucktard drove through a children's parade and killed 6 people and injured 62 others, did anyone talk about anything other than the shitbag who did it?
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You mean like the anti-car barriers installed at places like the Moda center, Las Vegas strip, and other parade routes?

Yes, people talk and take actions to try and prevent things like that from happening again. That's a very normal reaction.

I'm sure the parade route where the fucktard drove will have anti-car barriers, I'm sure the Rose Festival parades will have car barriers.
 
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