Notice From My Cold Dead Hands......

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riverman said:
No...I know what gun lobbies print...there's a reason you can find a billion justifications for gun ownership....I used to broadcast and monitor Nixon propoganda in the war...I know how those things get out there. Violent crime rates aren't mass shootings of children and shoppers and innocent people.....organized crime and etc are not what we're talking about here...gang wars are not the stat I'm concerned about...it's the random mass shootings that are happening like never before in this country...and still ....if they took the guns out of the equation in the 90s we'd all be safer today....use common sense, not gun lobby propoganda..
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Right, and guns aren't easier to get ahold of today than they have been in the past. Anybody could get a gun in the 50's, 60's, 70's or 80's... Even a semiautomatic gun. With as much ammo as you could carry. With fewer restrictions.

So what's changed?

Our mental health. We spend less on social issues and invest less in education. There is less opportunity and more competition. People are snapping because they are being pushed too far and society isn't picking up on it in time to stop these mass shootings.
 
riverman said:
No...I know what gun lobbies print...there's a reason you can find a billion justifications for gun ownership....I used to broadcast and monitor Nixon propoganda in the war...I know how those things get out there. Violent crime rates aren't mass shootings of children and shoppers and innocent people.....organized crime and etc are not what we're talking about here...gang wars are not the stat I'm concerned about...it's the random mass shootings that are happening like never before in this country...and still ....if they took the guns out of the equation in the 90s we'd all be safer today....use common sense, not gun lobby propoganda..
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Statista isn't a gun lobby... It's very reliable and unbiased.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/statista/
 
Phatguysrule said:
Actually, it is the safest time to be in school in decades... At least it was in 2018, and not much has changed since then.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/
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Just because it may be "the safest", doesn't mean you can't make it safer.

For thousands of people, it sure doesn't feel safe. What's wrong with wanting to make people feel safer? It's never going to be a utopia, but for fucks sake why can't we fix the fact were the only god damn country that has mass shootings in a god damn elementary school.

It's way past time to be reactive. We're already having to do it at the loss of people. We need to stop waiting for "the next one" to do something. What we need to do is stop the next one! The last one should never have happened if we really were the safest we've been. But it did.

Shit needs to change. Anything else is a waste of time.
 
calvin natt said:
And THIS right here is why we are permanently fucked.
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Yeah, if we refuse to address the real problems and just keep hammering away at goals which are virtually impossible.

We can solve these problems if we get realistic about it. I truly believe that.
 
Strenuus said:
Just because it may be "the safest", doesn't mean you can't make it safer.

For thousands of people, it sure doesn't feel safe. What's wrong with wanting to make people feel safer? It's never going to be a utopia, but for fucks sake why can't we fix the fact were the only god damn country that has mass shootings in a god damn elementary school.

It's way past time to be reactive. We're already having to do it at the loss of people. We need to stop waiting for "the next one" to do something. What we need to do is stop the next one! The last one should never have happened if we really were the safest we've been. But it did.

Shit needs to change. Anything else is a waste of time.
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Absolutely. I'm here advocating for change. Actual change we can actually achieve.
 
Mass Shootings at Home, Mass Arms Exports Abroad: A Look at Deadly Role of U.S. Weapons Across Globe

 
SlyPokerDog said:
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Crazy Eyes!



https://nypost.com/2022/06/02/tulsa...w&utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter

A deranged gunman with a rifle and a handgun who killed four people at an Oklahoma medical building targeted a doctor who previously operated on him “and anyone who got in his way,” authorities said Thursday.

The gunman, identified as Michael Louis, opened fire at about 5 p.m. Wednesday at an orthopedic office on the second floor of the Natalie Medical Building at Saint Francis Hospital in Tulsa, Police Chief Wendell Franklin told reporters at a press conference.

Louis went to the hospital on May 19 for back surgery, which was performed by Dr. Preston Phillips. Louis was later released on May 24, Franklin said.
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Earlier Wednesday, Louis legally bought a semi-automatic AR-15 style rifle from a local gun store and purchased a semi-automatic handgun on May 29 from a local pawn shop, Franklin said.

Cops recovered dozens of spent shell casings from the shooting scene, as well as a letter penned by Louis that made it clear he intended to kill Dr. Phillips and “anyone who got in his way” following the surgery he claimed had left him ailing.
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calvin natt said:
I’m sure it’s been brought up somewhere in this clusterfuck thread but what’s your take on Floridas Red Flag law?
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Hmm... It looks similar to Oregon's Red Flag Law.

I support it, as long as the red flag portion is temporary pending further investigation. I wouldn't want it to be possible to use as a tool to round up guns from all minorities, etc... So I'd be in favor of a body to review these rulings and make sure no malfeasance is taking place.

But yeah, I think it's a good idea if done correctly.
 
Chris Craig said:
It's gone up.

193 people were shot last year in school shootings, the most violent year on record. Already 145 this year.
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And what has changed that caused that? Where were the additional shootings? Is this using the same criteria?

My middle schoolers have lost 7 teachers this school year. They can't handle the students. 2 of them quit right in the middle of class and just left. There is an insane amount of aggression between students and teachers.
 
Phatguysrule said:
And what has changed that caused that? Where were the additional shootings? Is this using the same criteria?

My middle schoolers have lost 7 teachers this school year. They can't handle the students. 2 of them quit right in the middle of class and just left. There is an insane amount of aggression between students and teachers.
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c'mon man....you're singling out teachers quiting jobs....covid and mask mandates didn't have anything to do with that?
 
riverman said:
c'mon man....you're singling out teachers quiting jobs....covid and mask mandates didn't have anything to do with that?
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No, I'm not singling anything out. I'm just making an observation.

They aren't wearing masks in school, and weren't wearing them in school before most of the teachers quit... Perhaps all of them...

The teachers told the children they couldn't deal with it and needed a break for "mental health"...
 
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Phatguysrule said:
And what has changed that caused that? Where were the additional shootings? Is this using the same criteria?

My middle schoolers have lost 7 teachers this school year. They can't handle the students. 2 of them quit right in the middle of class and just left. There is an insane amount of aggression between students and teachers.
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Guns have become easier to get.


Really you are going blame teachers? Insulting.
 
Chris Craig said:
Guns have become easier to get.
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How so? California has passed more gun control laws since 2019 than they did from 1900 to 2019.

Oregon has increased gun control laws in 2018, only to see shootings increase...

Etc... The data does not seem to support this claim as far as I can tell...
 
Phatguysrule said:
WTF? When did I blame teachers? Why are you so eager to try and start an argument?
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You asked what changed to cause more school shootings and then offered that may have to do with teachers quitting and not being able to handle students.

What has happened is guns have become easier to get via relaxed laws and parents have bought more guns and have not kept them adequately locked up.
 
Phatguysrule said:
How so? California has passed more gun control laws since 2019 than they did from 1900 to 2019.

Oregon has increased gun control laws in 2018, only to see shootings increase...

Etc... The data does not seem to support this claim as far as I can tell...
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Texas has the most school shootings in the past half a decade. Gun laws have laxed there more and more. Most of the states in which these shootings have happened are red states with more lax gun control laws.
 
Chris Craig said:
You asked what changed to cause more school shootings and then offered that may have to do with teachers quitting and not being able to handle students.

What has happened is guns have become easier to get via relaxed laws and parents have bought more guns and have not kept them adequately locked up.
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No, I didn't place blame anywhere. I made an observation that the atmosphere at school seems to be degraded. This seems to be backed up by teachers quitting to salvage their mental health.
 
Chris Craig said:
Texas has the most school shootings in the past half a decade. Gun laws have laxed there more and more. Most of the states in which these shootings have happened are red states with more lax gun control laws.
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Is that the case? Do you have a link? I'm hoping to compare rates between 2018 and 2021, but haven't found something handy yet...
 
Phatguysrule said:
No, I didn't place blame anywhere. I made an observation that the atmosphere at school seems to be degraded. This seems to be backed up by teachers quitting to salvage their mental health.
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Most schools have not have teachers quit. That is a small number statistically speaking. But, yes there has been some issue with students being out for a year due to Covid and returning.

Has the exacerbated an uptick in shootings? I don't know. School shootings were here before Covid and have been an issue for sometime.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Is that the case? Do you have a link? I'm hoping to compare rates between 2018 and 2021, but haven't found something handy yet...
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Yeah, I've been reading alot of articles. Trying to remember which one that was in. California is #1 since 1970 with Texas 2nd, but Texas is #1 in the last decade or so.
 
Chris Craig said:
Most schools have not have teachers quit. That is a small number statistically speaking. But, yes there has been some issue with students being out for a year due to Covid and returning.

Has the exacerbated an uptick in shootings? I don't know. School shootings were here before Covid and have been an issue for sometime.
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School shootings were here, for sure. They've always been there. But a ton of "non firearm" stuff has changed since 2018... I don't think guns are generally easier to get though, I don't think there have been any changes which would lead to that... even of the states who have chosen to go permitless open carry... that doesn't make it easier to get guns...
 
Shaboid said:
Here's one I shared the other day that I thought had some interesting statistics in. Didn't get a single comment..
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My concern with this is, of course if there are more guns there are more gun deaths. But how does that impact overall violent crime and murder rates? If the same number of people die with or without guns in the same place... it's just an incomplete look at the overall picture.

For example, in Oregon, WA, and California, when gun laws were increased it didn't reduce violent crime or murder rates. Or even gun crime, as far as that goes. They have all gone up.

Also, most of the cities and states with higher gun crime rates (not to mention higher overall violent crime and murder rates) have terrible access to mental healthcare compared to others... which likely has a pretty big impact as well.
 
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