Notice From My Cold Dead Hands......

[Fairly-Hard]

They need to be on that like a fly on shit

And change some of the laws that allow this to continue. 6 of 9 is pretty damning.

 

[Chris Craig]

And change some of the laws that allow this to continue. 6 of 9 is pretty damning.

Yes, when 6 of the worst 9 school shootings in the history of our country have occurred in the last 4 years, that's pretty telling something needs to be done.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Yes, when 6 of the worst 9 school shootings in the history of our country have occurred in the last 4 years, that's pretty telling something needs to be done.

The age part is what is shocking to me.
Remember it wasn't too long ago mass shootings where being blamed primarily on Muslim "Jihad" type shooters. Now it's Kids with guns and mental issues.

 

[riverman]

The age part is what is shocking to me.
Remember it wasn't too long ago mass shootings where being blamed primarily on Muslim "Jihad" type shooters. Now it's Kids with guns and mental issues.

and I don't recall anyone lobbying that mental healthcare would be the way to stop Jihadists from shooting or blowing shit up either..even themselves...not that it wouldn't help but I'd start with the bombs and guns first. We're not going to re-raise these people and reform their psychological makeup....people's personalities are basically formed by the age of 3

 

[Phatguysrule]

While 19 good guys with guns stood around with their thumbs up their asses, a Uvalde mother defied cops and went unarmed into the school to get her two children. They were in different rooms so she had to enter twice. Got both out safely.
Fire the damn police chief and hire that woman. She has more guts than 19 armed men.

Exactly. Those weren't good guys. Put them in jail, IMO.

 

[Phatguysrule]

DHS terror threat bulletin warns online forums are encouraging copycat Uvalde attacks

I posted a graph last week which showed the explosion in these shootinga by young people has an shocking correlation with the rise in social media.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Yes, when 6 of the worst 9 school shootings in the history of our country have occurred in the last 4 years, that's pretty telling something needs to be done.

Interesting to think... What's changed in the last 4-ish years?

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Exactly. Those weren't good guys. Put them in jail, IMO.

This is an honest post with no negativity intended.
My thoughts on this are conflicted? I do understand a woman/mother ran in to save her children. I'm also willing to bet she would have saved any child she could have.
Police are running in to save our children and they are also trying to save any child they can.
It's got to be tough when wires/directions/leadership gets scrambled. So many rules they have to follow.
I honestly have some compassion for the officers involved being called out like this? How many of them were begging to get into the fight?
So many questions?

 

[Shaboid]

I posted a graph last week which showed the explosion in these shootinga by young people has an shocking correlation with the rise in social media.

Correlation does not always equal Causation, but is something worth considering. I got off Facebook sometime around 2012 and I have had zero regrets. I'm sure my sanity is better for it.

 

[Phatguysrule]

and I don't recall anyone lobbying that mental healthcare would be the way to stop Jihadists from shooting or blowing shit up either..even themselves...not that it wouldn't help but I'd start with the bombs and guns first. We're not going to re-raise these people and reform their psychological makeup....people's personalities are basically formed by the age of 3

We could easily arrest every mass murderer in the country and not even notice a rise in prison population.

I don't think we need to alter their psychological make-up from the age of 3, we just need to identify them sooner once things start unraveling for them. These mass shootings are suicides. We need to identify and help people at risk of becoming suicidal.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Correlation does not always equal Causation, but is something worth considering. I got off Facebook sometime around 2012 and I have had zero regrets. I'm sure my sanity is better for it.

Agreed. I only use Facebook as a means of communication now, and every now and then when I do scroll through I can tell I feel worse.

 

[Chris Craig]

I posted a graph last week which showed the explosion in these shootinga by young people has an shocking correlation with the rise in social media.

4chan and shit. Kids getting caught up with these right wing ideologs and end up writing manifestos on there and committing mass shootings. And, they say the left is indoctrinating kids.

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is an honest post with no negativity intended.
My thoughts on this are conflicted? I do understand a woman/mother ran in to save her children. I'm also willing to bet she would have saved any child she could have.
Police are running in to save our children and they are also trying to save any child they can.
It's got to be tough when wires/directions/leadership gets scrambled. So many rules they have to follow.
I honestly have some compassion for the officers involved being called out like this? How many of them were begging to get into the fight?
So many questions?

If you are law enforcement and you have the ability to save somebody, yet you refuse to do it you should be held legally responsible.

Maybe not as murder, but something. And you should never be allowed to work in law enforcement again.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

and I don't recall anyone lobbying that mental healthcare would be the way to stop Jihadists from shooting or blowing shit up either..even themselves...not that it wouldn't help but I'd start with the bombs and guns first. We're not going to re-raise these people and reform their psychological makeup....people's personalities are basically formed by the age of 3

Hello,

I could be wrong but i think there may be a difference between religious fanatics looking to purify the earth, vs lost kids who just want everything and everyone to die, including themselves.

One seems to be a form of religious domestic terrorism. Another a mental health issue.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

If you are law enforcement and you have the ability to save somebody, yet you refuse to do it you should be held legally responsible.

Maybe not as murder, but something. And you should never be allowed to work in law enforcement again.

Cannot disagree.
I guess i just wonder about exactly what happened? I wonder how many of these officers are waking up in cold sweats at night right now because they were ordered to stand down? I know what i would have done or at least what i think i would have done? Just was not there and there simply has not been enough information released for me to make judgement yet.
Finding blame is going to be hard? So many questions?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Correlation does not always equal Causation, but is something worth considering. I got off Facebook sometime around 2012 and I have had zero regrets. I'm sure my sanity is better for it.

In this case, my opinion is its a direct correlation with social media and violent video games.
When i grew up it was running donkey kong up ladders and having a fist fight. Now its simulated urban warfare and mass shootings.

 

[Chris Craig]

Hello,

I could be wrong but i think there may be a difference between religious fanatics looking to purify the earth, vs lost kids who just want everything and everyone to die, including themselves.

One seems to be a form of religious domestic terrorism. Another a mental health issue.

Those religious fanatics looking for master race probably are dealing with some mental health shit too.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Hello,

I could be wrong but i think there may be a difference between religious fanatics looking to purify the earth, vs lost kids who just want everything and everyone to die, including themselves.

One seems to be a form of religious domestic terrorism. Another a mental health issue.

The point of my original statement was that not long ago we all agreed the Jihad attacks needed to end. The FBI and other law enforcement agencies cracked down hard not only on social media but with terror lists and all types of AI to stop these mass murder type activities.
They even enacted laws and changed the way we do things on an every day level. Flying has and never will be the same again. Even renting a car will never be the same.
I'm assuming we will do much of the same again here. You most certainly cannot by fertilizer the way you used to?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Cannot disagree.
I guess i just wonder about exactly what happened? I wonder how many of these officers are waking up in cold sweats at night right now because they were ordered to stand down? I know what i would have done or at least what i think i would have done? Just was not there and there simply has not been enough information released for me to make judgement yet.
Finding blame is going to be hard? So many questions?

Hello,

This is fair and should be the stance of all until all info is known. If the sherif instructed his deputies to not go in, disobeying could cost them thier job and if they doesnt know all the details, one would assume they were being instructed not to do so for safety reasons.
I would have followed that order as an officer, without knowing the details.

Furthermore in the military, to not follow orders is a crime.
Just too many unknowns to pass judgement on the officers in my opinion.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

In this case, my opinion is its a direct correlation with social media and violent video games.
When i grew up it was running donkey kong up ladders and having a fist fight. Now its simulated urban warfare and mass shootings.

I have had this same thought many times?

 

[Chris Craig]

In this case, my opinion is its a direct correlation with social media and violent video games.
When i grew up it was running donkey kong up ladders and having a fist fight. Now its simulated urban warfare and mass shootings.

Look, I played GTA when I was a teen, but I didn't go out and carjack people and shoot people. I think video games are an easy scapegoat.

The internet though sure, there are some dark places on there where young people can get caught up in some bad ideologies.

Maybe a combo of the two...kids who play violent video games who also frequent bad places online. Sure.

Parenting is a big one here.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Those religious fanatics looking for master race probably are dealing with some mental health shit too.

No doubt. But in my opinion, those types are unfixable and should just be removed. Its racism in its ugliest form. I would not waste money and resources trying to mend the mind of a religious racist bent on purifying the earth.
If there is something I'm for the death penalty for it would be for people like the 911 hijackers, etc.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Look, I played GTA when I was a teen, but I didn't go out and carjack people and shoot people. I think video games are an easy scapegoat.

The internet though sure, there are some dark places on there where young people can get caught up in some bad ideologies.

I apologize. Parental supervision is huge in the video gaming arena of child psychology and if a child is raised right, should be able to differentiate video games from reality
My thought is the core of the issue is parental neglect and children not being educated socially.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

The point of my original statement was that not long ago we all agreed the Jihad attacks needed to end. The FBI and other law enforcement agencies cracked down hard not only on social media but with terror lists and all types of AI to stop these mass murder type activities.
They even enacted laws and changed the way we do things on an every day level. Flying has and never will be the same again. Even renting a car will never be the same.
I'm assuming we will do much of the same again here. You most certainly cannot by fertilizer the way you used to?

Could it be because those types of terror attacks take planning and communication, which is much easier to identify and track verses a teenage mind losing it?

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Could it be because those types of terror attacks take planning and communication, which is much easier to identify and track verses a teenage mind losing it?

Yes i would agree on the amount of planning. The teenager shooting up a school plans also though most likely not nearly as extensive. How invasive do we really want law enforcement to get into ours and our children's lives?
It's a good question.
Is it just simpler to reduce the amount of guns and ammo available and maybe restrict gun ownership a bit more as well as the types of guns that are available?

That is pretty much the topic of the thread. No?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Yes i would agree on the amount of planning. The teenager shooting up a school plans also though most likely not nearly as extensive. How invasive do we really want law enforcement to get into ours and our children's lives?
It's a good question.
Is it just simpler to reduce the amount of guns and ammo available and maybe restrict gun ownership a bit more as well as the types of guns that are available?

That is pretty much the topic of the thread. No?

My question for you would then be how do we go about collecting all of the guns and ammo?
This would require a two faceted answer due to some guns are owned legally and can be tracked and then millions more are illegal and on the black market.
To me, it would first require a constitutional change.
To me, that would instigate a civil war because i do not think many gun owners will just give them up…but lets say they do Nd we have changed laws and no more legal guns can be owned sold or bought.
That leaves criminals with illegal guns left on the streets with only police to crack down.
We all know police are merely a reactionary response to an incident. So they will not be there to fend off an attacker.
What would the answer be to the following question for the millions of gun owners who gave their weapons up….
“who is going to protect me or have my back if im attacked by a criminal with a gun?”
This is the question that haunts many.
If we attempt to remove all guns then all thats left are criminals with guns.
This is largely dismissed and swept under the rug as paranoia, but it is not. At all.
One just need scroll up and see the posts of people using a gun to save themselves to know this is a reality that is not paranoia.
Without a solid and reasonable answer to that question, I do not see any gun owners giving their guns up.

 

[riverman]

Hello,

I could be wrong but i think there may be a difference between religious fanatics looking to purify the earth, vs lost kids who just want everything and everyone to die, including themselves.

One seems to be a form of religious domestic terrorism. Another a mental health issue.

They are all lost kids....some attach themselves to a support system and some just rage alone...both can justify taking human lives ...it's not any different other than that it's tragic. This day and age some of those lone wolf kids are supported by violent mass killing competitions online...get into the gear, changing the weapons...earning more...etc....people need to stop looking at that as a scapegoat and realize that game simulations are how the 911 terrorists learned to fly airplanes ..same with efficient killing training that comes with those games. If you're mentally mature enough to keep them in perspective it's one thing but what it does to a kid with a hairline trigger in the brain is another. We as a society cannot ignore all the factors that lead to social breakdowns and violent behavior. We also cannot assume that we'll be able to reccognize psychopathic behavior...guys like Ted Bundy don't get looked at twice before they turn into monsters in the dark....that's not going to solve senseless attacks on innocent people.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

They are all lost kids....some attach themselves to a support system and some just rage alone...both can justify taking human lives ...it's not any different other than that it's tragic

I would disagree on that. The path to a mental state for the two types are much different even if the result is the same and I am of the opinion this is important to distinguish if we are to help figure out why they start down their respective paths and how to get them off it.

If we are to solve these mass killings, we must research and analyze how the assailants mind got to where its at and those are much different paths in my opinion(not a very knowledgable one, I admit).

 

[andalusian]

My question for you would then be how do we go about collecting all of the guns and ammo?

No need to do that. Once you restrict ammo, as a consumable resource, it will solve itself in time. When we decided that leaded fuel is not good for the people and the environment and it was outlawed, no one went around collecting all the cars that needed it to run. It was phased out, a lot of the cars that required it worked until they stopped (as the non leaded fuel can cause problems for engines that require it) - and a lot of the cars that are worth saving as classic cars had additive used in them or updated to handle unleaded fuel. The fuel is the consumable resource in this case. Once you restrict ammunition the surplus of firearms out there are not an issue if you do not have the consumable resource to put in them.

To me, it would first require a constitutional change.

No arguments there.

If we attempt to remove all guns then all thats left are criminals with guns.
This is largely dismissed and swept under the rug as paranoia, but it is not. At all.

Only answer to this is to look at comparative data from other first world countries with stricter gun control, and we see that their violent crimes and murder rates are a quarter of the rate we have. For the record, I have no way how to measure mental health issues but if we look at depression and suicide rates in other first world countries - their rate seems to match ours, so the only real difference between us (as in, we are not crazier at large) - is the easy access to death tools.

One just need scroll up and see the posts of people using a gun to save themselves to know this is a reality that is not paranoia.
Without a solid and reasonable answer to that question, I do not see any gun owners giving their guns up.

No one argues that guns in the hands of responsible people can be used for good things. The problem is that guns in America are so poorly regulated that they are hard to keep out of the hands of the people who are not good.

By definition, the goal of society is to create rules that help as many as possible - and this is where the restrictions should be put - because if the rate of crime drops significantly (and we have data that shows it would, when we compare it to other "like" countries) - we should do that.

Ammo restrictions and good background checks should not be an issue for good people that are just going to use their guns for protection. This is the place where society needs to go - try to make rules that help as many people as possible, and decreasing the violent crime rate by a factor of 2, 3 or 4 is certainly worth this.

 

[riverman]

I would disagree on that. The path to a mental state for the two types are much different even if the result is the same and I am of the opinion this is important to distinguish if we are to help figure out why they start down their respective paths and how to get them off it.

If we are to solve these mass killings, we must research and analyze how the assailants mind got to where its at and those are much different paths in my opinion(not a very knowledgable one, I admit).

The paths are exactly the same....just in different landscapes...PTSD is real and in traumatized children almost always present....religion or radical fundamentalist upbringings are no more traumatic than kids with crack addicted parents in the ghetto. The new terrorist is the racist bigoted kid who grows up with easy access to weapons and ammo in the suburbs