Notice From My Cold Dead Hands...... (2 Viewers)

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Only dogs should have guns.

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Chris Craig said:
Most people here are not saying ban all guns. Maybe 2 posters have said that. Its not going to happen. It will never be on the table.

Most people here want restrictions. Restriction doesn't mean we want it banned, just harder to get.

Though, I don't see a reason for civilians to have access to versions of military guns other than they are cool. That cool factor is part of what has led to a culture around guns like the AR-15. It's the gun of choice for mass shooters for a reason.

You were talking about video games earlier. Well, the problem his gun makers, have taken the video game and made it real by offering versions of the guns in games. It's not the game itself, but the realization of that game via guns like Ar-15s.

Why do people kill is an age old question. Are they driven to it? Are they born with wicked capabilities and compulsions? Mental illness? Isolation? Bad parenting? The answer needs to be sought out yes, but there are things we can do in the meantime.

I believe that eventually better more accessible healthcare could help curb some of this. But, it's going to take time. Getting rid of poverty would be great and would help too, but it will never happen. The rich won't allow it.

The fastest things we can do now in the moment are:
  • raising the age to buy guns
  • Making guns harder to get via background checks, etc
  • Offer gun buybacks to get some guns off the street
  • Push for more responsible parenting
  • Hold parents responsible if their kids gets ahold of their weapons and use them nefariously.
We could also look to ban military style rifles among other things but that's probably not going to happen, so I'm not including that. Though most of my ideas won't happen anyway.

Yes, banning guns from plans has deterred some hijackings. Not all, but some. Implementing other strategies has helped deterred them even more. It's nearly impossible to hijack a plane post 9-11 because we did what we needed to do. If we sat around saying oh it's not going to work and the such we would have likely had more hijackings. Can you name a hijacking postn9-11 here in the US?

We need to attack gun violence, especially school shootings like we did hijacking, with several solutions at once. That's how it stops.
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you didn't list what I consider one of the most important things to do....limit the amount of ammo one can have ..hard cap that. Limit magazine capacity and rapid fire systems or bump stocks....
 
riverman said:
I've lived in a country for 2 decades where you can't have a gun.....in a county with the same population as Lane county in Oregon....there's no comparison in the murder rates at all...I can draw from that experience and it's enough proof for me. I've now lived in Lane county for 22 years....about the same amount of time and murder is way more prevalent. Covid in Brazil...can't imagine what the 5 million homeless orphans in Rio had to deal with over covid or the millions in the Favelas where gang presence is huge. Covid lockdowns skew many of the numbers but I've a couple decades in two systems and trust me...one is way safer
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I get that you're relying on your life experience, but there is SO MUCH more different between those two places... How do you know that's the difference? How do the Gini Coefficients of those places compare?
 
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Chris Craig said:
Most people here are not saying ban all guns. Maybe 2 posters have said that. Its not going to happen. It will never be on the table.

Most people here want restrictions. Restriction doesn't mean we want it banned, just harder to get.

Though, I don't see a reason for civilians to have access to versions of military guns other than they are cool. That cool factor is part of what has led to a culture around guns like the AR-15. It's the gun of choice for mass shooters for a reason.

You were talking about video games earlier. Well, the problem his gun makers, have taken the video game and made it real by offering versions of the guns in games. It's not the game itself, but the realization of that game via guns like Ar-15s.

Why do people kill is an age old question. Are they driven to it? Are they born with wicked capabilities and compulsions? Mental illness? Isolation? Bad parenting? The answer needs to be sought out yes, but there are things we can do in the meantime.

I believe that eventually better more accessible healthcare could help curb some of this. But, it's going to take time. Getting rid of poverty would be great and would help too, but it will never happen. The rich won't allow it.

The fastest things we can do now in the moment are:
  • raising the age to buy guns
  • Making guns harder to get via background checks, etc
  • Offer gun buybacks to get some guns off the street
  • Push for more responsible parenting
  • Hold parents responsible if their kids gets ahold of their weapons and use them nefariously.
  • Better school security upgrades (Doors that are locked from the outside, but can open from the inside and buzz in systems. Etc)
We could also look to ban military style rifles among other things but that's probably not going to happen, so I'm not including that. Though most of my ideas won't happen anyway.

Yes, banning guns from plans has deterred some hijackings. Not all, but some. Implementing other strategies has helped deterred them even more. It's nearly impossible to hijack a plane post 9-11 because we did what we needed to do. If we sat around saying oh it's not going to work and the such we would have likely had more hijackings. Can you name a hijacking postn9-11 here in the US?

We need to attack gun violence, especially school shootings like we did hijacking, with several solutions at once. That's how it stops.
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Hello,

I am not sure I agree with everything in this post, there is alot to digest and mull over. However this may be the best post IN this thread that I have read.
I will do my best to respond in detail in hopes of reaching the same level of post, but please allow me a day or two. Incredibly well thought out post sir!
 
Phatguysrule said:
But there is SO MUCH more different between those two places... How do you know that's the difference? How do the Gini Coefficients of those places compare?
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One of the differences is safety..,I know because it's demonstrable. I also know both cultures and speak both languages. I can speak on this topic without highlighting cultural differences...they are predominantly Buddhist and we are predominantly Christian ....sure....Brazil and the UK have very, very little in common....Brazil is the most racially integrated country on the earth...the UK, not so much. These things don't weigh in with such importance concerning murder by guns but people's differences do not necessarily make them safer with guns than without them...quite the opposite. You give a Taiwanese irate Taxi driver an AR15 and he's as likely to flip out as a kid in Nebraska....difference is the taxi driver can't buy a gun...he might scream at someone in rage for an hour but that's where it stops. The kid in Nebraska can get a lot of guns quickly
 
riverman said:
One of the differences is safety..,I know because it's demonstrable. I also know both cultures and speak both languages. I can speak on this topic without highlighting cultural differences...they are predominantly Buddhist and we are predominantly Christian ....sure....Brazil and the UK have very, very little in common....Brazil is the most racially integrated country on the earth...the UK, not so much. These things don't weigh in with such importance concerning murder by guns but people's differences do not necessarily make them safer with guns than without them...quite the opposite. You give a Taiwanese irate Taxi driver an AR15 and he's as likely to flip out as a kid in Nebraska....difference is the taxi driver can't buy a gun...he might scream at someone in rage for an hour but that's where it stops. The kid in Nebraska can get a lot of guns quickly
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Looks like Taiwan is has a 33 Gini coefficient, the US is at 41, and Lane County is even worse at 47.

Places with a higher gini coefficient (economy inequality) tend to have far more violence and crime.

This is true across virtually all societies.

https://www.livestories.com/statistics/oregon/lane-county-gini-index-income-inequality

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gini-coefficient-by-country
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Looks like Taiwan is has a 33 Gini coefficient, the US is at 41, and Lane County is even worse at 47.

Places with a higher gini coefficient (economy inequality) tend to have far more violence and crime.

This is true across virtually all societies.

https://www.livestories.com/statistics/oregon/lane-county-gini-index-income-inequality

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gini-coefficient-by-country
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To make an accurate comparison you'd have to compare Hualien county to Lane county, not Lane county to Taiwan....that's a few hundred thousand compared to 23 million people....Hualien county has roughly the same population as Lane County...Hualien City is about the size of Eugene/Springfield . In comparison Taiwan, Canada and Australia all have about 23 million population. Difference is in Taiwan they live in basically 3 huge cities in the West on an island that's mostly uninhabited mountains.
 
riverman said:
you didn't list what I consider one of the most important things to do....limit the amount of ammo one can have ..hard cap that. Limit magazine capacity and rapid fire systems or bump stocks....
Click to expand...

That's a great idea limiting ammo, I am for it. Unfortunately, it won't happen. But, it would be good and it would help.


Limiting magazine capacity, banning bumpstocks and such is a great idea too. More feasible than your first idea.
 
riverman said:
To make an accurate comparison you'd have to compare Hualien county to Lane county, not Lane county to Taiwan....that's a few hundred thousand compared to 23 million people....Hualien county has roughly the same population as Lane County...Hualien City is about the size of Eugene/Springfield . In comparison Taiwan, Canada and Australia all have about 23 million population. Difference is in Taiwan they live in basically 3 huge cities in the West on an island that's mostly uninhabited mountains.
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No need. The gini coefficient accounts for population.

However, if you want an granular view that would be interesting to see. I haven't been able to find that data.
 
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We could also start combining our DNA with rhinoceros DNA. Their hide is the thickest of all land mammals and while not bulletproof they are bullet-resistant.

And there is nothing in the constitution about altering our DNA.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
We could also start combining our DNA with rhinoceros DNA. Their hide is the thickest of all land mammals and while not bulletproof they are bullet-resistant.

And there is nothing in the constitution about altering our DNA.
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This is the kind of out of the box thinking we really need to see more of...
 
Actually a kevlar curtain could protect people in schools...just a bullet proof drape that would wall in students in an area safe zone shields for children would be an area worth looking into
 
Chris Craig said:
That's a great idea limiting ammo, I am for it. Unfortunately, it won't happen. But, it would be good and it would help.


Limiting magazine capacity, banning bumpstocks and such is a great idea too. More feasible than your first idea.
Click to expand...
I don't think of my first idea as just an idea...it's a goal for global peace and for humanity to evolve into a more intelligent chapter of human history. Everybody that says "it won't happen" is contributing to "it's not happening" ..there's a huge list of bs we need to change on this earth if we want a future at all. Starting somewhere will not achieve what I want but it might put a dent in the damage control factor in the meantime.
 
riverman said:
I don't think of my first idea as just an idea...it's a goal for global peace and for humanity to evolve into a more intelligent chapter of human history. Everybody that says "it won't happen" is contributing to "it's not happening" ..there's a huge list of bs we need to change on this earth if we want a future at all.
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I don't disagree.
 
Chris Craig said:
I don't disagree.
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I have grandkids and soon great grand kids...it's not like I expect any major shifts in the small slice of time I have left on earth but if you love your offspring..you have to practice being a futurist and having hope for them. Now in America we have a very teachable climate to stimulate change...
 
Shaboid said:
Correlation does not always equal Causation, but is something worth considering. I got off Facebook sometime around 2012 and I have had zero regrets. I'm sure my sanity is better for it.
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Why? Were you using facebook to read peoples opinions on all things politics. I use it to see pics and videos of my family all over the country. Share camping pictures and kids sporting events. Always cracks me up when people say they can’t handle social media. I use twitter for sports news….Instagram for photography. Love social media. Soak that shit up actually.
 
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THE HCP said:
Why? Were you using facebook to read peoples opinions on all things politics. I use it to see pics and videos of my family all over the country. Share camping pictures and kids sporting events. Always cracks me up when people say they can’t handle social media. I use twitter for sports news….Instagram for photography. Love social media. Soak that shit up actually.
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THE HCP said:
Why? Were you using facebook to read peoples opinions on all things politics. I use it to see pics and videos of my family all over the country. Share camping pictures and kids sporting events. Always cracks me up when people say they can’t handle social media. I use twitter for sports news….Instagram for photography. Love social media. Soak that shit up actually.
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I can't even remember what I used it for back then, to be honest. But if it didn't use it in the same way as you I must have been doing it wrong. Geez, get off your high horse.
 
I use Facebook for messenger and i look at the feed in the morning. It has options to quiet certain posters down on your feed. If they are a bit toxic i just go that route. Basically i use it to stay in touch with people and activities that I'm interested in. Instagram is all about pictures for me. Have not set up Tic Toc yet? Not sure i have the time for it? I have this place. Which i can admit i can make toxic for myself If i don't just keep it simple.
 
Chris Craig said:
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All i can see are his tears when he was crying about being a victim when he killed someone after bringing an AR-15 to a demonstration that was supposed to be peaceful.

Clearly this child has not learned much over the last year and a half. He still is not old enough to understand that actions do indeed have consequences.
 
Pt9lWDH.png

'He told my teacher goodnight, and shot her in the head': Uvalde massacre survivor, 11, tells Congress she 'grabbed blood and put it all over' her Lilo and Stitch shirt because she thought gunman would return and says 'it will happen again'
  • Uvalde school shooting survivor Miah Cerrillo, 11, recounted to Congress on Wednesday the massacre at her elementary school last month
  • '[He] told my teacher 'goodnight' and shot her in the head,' Cerrillo explained of the mass shooting
  • 'I thought he was going to come back to the room,' she said in pre-recorded remarks played before the panel. 'So I grabbed the blood and I put it all over me'
  • The shooting in Uvalde, Texas last month left 19 students and two teachers dead and many more injured
  • A separate shooting at a Buffalo, New York supermarket that left 10 people dead
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ead-Uvalde-survivor-11-recounts-massacre.html
 
Saw the interview with teacher wounded and still hospitalized. There were 11 children in his class. All are dead. He tried to protect them. They knew police were near but did nothing. He said he would never forgive them and cried when he pleaded with parents not to be angry at him because he couldn't save their children, he really tried.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Pt9lWDH.png

'He told my teacher goodnight, and shot her in the head': Uvalde massacre survivor, 11, tells Congress she 'grabbed blood and put it all over' her Lilo and Stitch shirt because she thought gunman would return and says 'it will happen again'
  • Uvalde school shooting survivor Miah Cerrillo, 11, recounted to Congress on Wednesday the massacre at her elementary school last month
  • '[He] told my teacher 'goodnight' and shot her in the head,' Cerrillo explained of the mass shooting
  • 'I thought he was going to come back to the room,' she said in pre-recorded remarks played before the panel. 'So I grabbed the blood and I put it all over me'
  • The shooting in Uvalde, Texas last month left 19 students and two teachers dead and many more injured
  • A separate shooting at a Buffalo, New York supermarket that left 10 people dead
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ead-Uvalde-survivor-11-recounts-massacre.html
Click to expand...

One, it's terrible she had to do that. But, the foresight of an 11 year old to do that. Smart girl. Again, so fucked up she had to be put in that position.
 
crandc said:
Saw the interview with teacher wounded and still hospitalized. There were 11 children in his class. All are dead. He tried to protect them. They knew police were near but did nothing. He said he would never forgive them and cried when he pleaded with parents not to be angry at him because he couldn't save their children, he really tried.
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I bet he wishes he had more tools available to help defend those kids...
 
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