Notice From My Cold Dead Hands...... (1 Viewer)

[calvin natt]

I want a solution. The most effective and efficient solution which solves the most problems.

Guns don't make anybody crazy enough to kill people. We're doing that.

Making fewer people crazy should be the goal, not restricting the rights of the law abiding citizens who commit less crime than nearly any other demographic in this country.

What frustrates me is the partisanship we allow to be involved in this conversation.

If Hillary Clinton had dropped her support (crusade? ) for increasing gun control and instead focused all of that energy on solving the problem via social reforms by increasing access to healthcare, education, and improving the social safety net she would have destroyed Trump and we'd be in a much better place as a country right now.

But the problem is the political machine we have (which Hillary helped shape) dictates that anybody who isn't pushing gun restrictions as the only solution to gun crime is an insane gun nut who just wants to kill democrats by the hundreds.

Craziness is worldwide though. Bullying is worldwide. I know people want to think that somehow America is the worst at bullying, has more mentally unstable, but there are lunatics everywhere. But we have the most guns and the biggest fear of addressing it.

 

[Chris Craig]

I want a solution. The most effective and efficient solution which solves the most problems.

Guns don't make anybody crazy enough to kill people. We're doing that.

Making fewer people crazy should be the goal, not restricting the rights of the law abiding citizens who commit less crime than nearly any other demographic in this country.

What frustrates me is the partisanship we allow to be involved in this conversation.

If Hillary Clinton had dropped her support (crusade? ) for increasing gun control and instead focused all of that energy on solving the problem via social reforms by increasing access to healthcare, education, and improving the social safety net she would have destroyed Trump and we'd be in a much better place as a country right now.

But the problem is the political machine we have (which Hillary helped shape) dictates that anybody who isn't pushing gun restrictions as the only solution to gun crime is an insane gun nut who just wants to kill democrats by the hundreds.

I agree there needs to be multiple solutions and gun control should be one of them.

These partisanship views you speak of were around long before Hillary.

We don't need to take guns from law abiding individuals. We can enact better gun control laws while respecting the 2nd amendment.

There does need to be better gun control. Work to get as many guns out of hands that have them illegally. Laws to hold parents responsible if their kids use their guns to kill.

Politicians need to stop with the scare tactics. "They're going to take your guns" "They're going to make you abort your babies" They're going to make you live next to gay people and learn about racism." Come the fuck on.

Like I said we need other solutions too. Better access to mental healthcare, teachers and school administrators who aren't burnt out to the point they could give a fuck about bullying.

We are in deep shit.

We need action.

 

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

I want a solution. The most effective and efficient solution which solves the most problems.

Guns don't make anybody crazy enough to kill people. We're doing that.

Making fewer people crazy should be the goal, not restricting the rights of the law abiding citizens who commit less crime than nearly any other demographic in this country.

What frustrates me is the partisanship we allow to be involved in this conversation.

If Hillary Clinton had dropped her support (crusade? ) for increasing gun control and instead focused all of that energy on solving the problem via social reforms by increasing access to healthcare, education, and improving the social safety net she would have destroyed Trump and we'd be in a much better place as a country right now.

But the problem is the political machine we have (which Hillary helped shape) dictates that anybody who isn't pushing gun restrictions as the only solution to gun crime is an insane gun nut who just wants to kill democrats by the hundreds.

You make some valid points but (IMHO) you’re oversimplifying things. All the social reforms cited absolutely need to happen, but……conservatives in general (who I would personally believe own far more guns than progressives) have absolutely NO desire for social reforms. To them social reform equals socialism. So it ain’t gonna happen, no matter how critical it might be. Time and time again the Right (what a friggin’ misnomer) has blocked social reforms that might have actually made this country “great again”. From my naive viewpoint, it would be far, far easier to “reform” gun ownership, so that it’s harder for the “crazies” to get a hold of a gun. And there is no moral or ethical justification whatsoever for opposing it. I am sick and tired of hearing “Second Amendment” over and over and over again like it is an inviolate right handed down from God. Currently, women have a constitutional right to have an abortion……and we can see today where that is likely headed. By that very example alone, gun ownership is not a God given right and nothing whatsoever says that the Second Amendment can’t be altered. Seems to me like a combination of social reforms paired with more restrictive Second Amendment “rights” would be a more viable path to take.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I agree there needs to be multiple solutions and gun control should be one of them.

These partisanship views you speak of were around long before Hillary.

We don't need to take guns from law abiding individuals. We can enact better gun control laws while respecting the 2nd amendment.

There does need to be better gun control. Work to get as many guns out of hands that have them illegally. Laws to hold parents responsible if their kids use their guns to kill.

Politicians need to stop with the scare tactics. "They're going to take your guns" "They're going to make you abort your babies" They're going to make you live next to gay people and learn about racism." Come the fuck on.

Like I said we need other solutions too. Better access to mental healthcare, teachers and school administrators who aren't burnt out to the point they could give a fuck about bullying.

We are in deep shit.

We need action.

But if you focus on restrictions you'll just harden people against you. That's counterproductive. Especially when no restrictions have ever shown to be effective at reducing violent crime and murder rates. It's a losing battle from the outset.

Yes, gun control was a topic before Hillary, but she became a lightning rod for supporting it and it helped cost her an election and, I think, drastically hurt this country.

I was using her as an example of how allowing this partisanship to continue regarding this issue is far more damaging than than it could ever be helpful.

We do need action. On items which are proven and cannot be argued with data. Gun control is not one of those causes. It's a waste of political capital.

 

[Phatguysrule]

You make some valid points but (IMHO) you’re oversimplifying things. All the social reforms cited absolutely need to happen, but……conservatives in general (who I would personally believe own far more guns than progressives) have absolutely NO desire for social reforms. To them social reform equals socialism. So it ain’t gonna happen, no matter how critical it might be. Time and time again the Right (what a friggin’ misnomer) has blocked social reforms that might have actually made this country “great again”. From my naive viewpoint, it would be far, far easier to “reform” gun ownership, so that it’s harder for the “crazies” to get a hold of a gun. And there is no moral or ethical justification whatsoever for opposing it. I am sick and tired of hearing “Second Amendment” over and over and over again like it is an inviolate right handed down from God. Currently, women have a constitutional right to have an abortion……and we can see today where that is likely headed. By that very example alone, gun ownership is not a God given right and nothing whatsoever says that the Second Amendment can’t be altered. Seems to me like a combination of social reforms paired with more restrictive Second Amendment “rights” would be a more viable path to take.

There has never been a gun control law ever passed that has resulted in significantly lower violent crime or murder rates. Like that were obviously distinct from trends in similar countries.

So there can be no evidence that it works. Gun restrictions are a lost cause. There is just as much evidence that they might not work as there is that they might work.

We KNOW and can PROVE that the other social reforms are far more effective than any gun control ever has been.

Tying those with gun control is a great way to make sure those reforms never actually happen.

 

[Hoopguru]

I agree there needs to be multiple solutions and gun control should be one of them.

These partisanship views you speak of were around long before Hillary.

We don't need to take guns from law abiding individuals. We can enact better gun control laws while respecting the 2nd amendment.

There does need to be better gun control. Work to get as many guns out of hands that have them illegally. Laws to hold parents responsible if their kids use their guns to kill.

Politicians need to stop with the scare tactics. "They're going to take your guns" "They're going to make you abort your babies" They're going to make you live next to gay people and learn about racism." Come the fuck on.

Like I said we need other solutions too. Better access to mental healthcare, teachers and school administrators who aren't burnt out to the point they could give a fuck about bullying.

We are in deep shit.

We need action.

We need stricter gun control laws like owning a vehicle or boat.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Craziness is worldwide though. Bullying is worldwide. I know people want to think that somehow America is the worst at bullying, has more mentally unstable, but there are lunatics everywhere. But we have the most guns and the biggest fear of addressing it.

But the mentally unstable in other first world countries receive far more treatment than we do.

We have far more desperation and poverty than other first world countries.

Solving those issues, we'll impact violent crime and murder rates far more than any gun control ever has.

Australia and the UK both enacted sweeping gun control in the 90s and the US saw better gains in violent crime and murder rates simply because of the .com and housing booms improving the lives of so many Americans. All while America doubled the number of guns and let the assault weapons ban expire.

Gun control is simply a distraction to maintain the status quo.

 

[Phatguysrule]

We need stricter gun control laws like owning a vehicle or boat.

Huh? Anybody can own a car or boat... There is no background check or license required.

You need a license to use it in public. But you're banned from using guns at all in city limits. Heck, most states require a license to even carry a gun.

Laws are already more strict on guns than they are on cars or boats.

 

[THE HCP]

We had one not that long ago at Reynolds. I don't know where you live but I can assure you, it is still in the minds of many eastsiders.

We had a shooting and murder at my high school in 1988..... still trips us out thinking about it.

 

[THE HCP]

We had a shooting and murder at my high school in 1988..... still trips us out thinking about it.

Sounds weird, but at least the gang menders back then had as weird as it sounds, "meaningful targets" and didn't just go around shooting random students who they had no beef with. Kid came on campus, found this dude, took him out and went on his way.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Sounds weird, but at least the gang menders back then had as weird as it sounds, "meaningful targets" and didn't just go around shooting random students who they had no beef with. Kid came on campus, found this dude, took him out and went on his way.

In the eyes of these mentally fucked up kids, they have beef with everyone and everyone needs to die. In their world view, everyone is a meaningful target. They are fucked up in the head.

 

[Orion Bailey]

In the eyes of these mentally fucked up kids, they have beef with everyone and everyone needs to die. In their world view, everyone is a meaningful target. They are fucked up in the head.

yeah, mentally unhinged youth aRe not the same as youth gangmembers.

 

[Chris Craig]

In the eyes of these mentally fucked up kids, they have beef with everyone and everyone needs to die. In their world view, everyone is a meaningful target. They are fucked up in the head.

The people who bully them are pretty fucked up in the head too. Preying on other kids they see as inferior and unable to fight back so they can project their own problems and cause pain to others so that it blunts their own.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

The people who bully them are pretty fucked up in the head too. Preying on other kids they see as inferior and unable to fight back so they can project their own problems and cause pain to others so that it blunts their own.

Quit making excuses for psychotic school shooters. Its their problem, not "bullying". These school shooters are ABSOLUTELY fucked in the head, and there's no way you can argue otherwise.

 

[Chris Craig]

Quit making excuses for psychotic school shooters.

I haven't made any excuses for school shooters. Bringing a gun to school is never the answer.

I'm simply looking at the psychology behind why it happens.

Calling out bullies. Why does that upset you?

 

[Orion Bailey]

The people who bully them are pretty fucked up in the head too. Preying on other kids they see as inferior and unable to fight back so they can project their own problems and cause pain to others so that it blunts their own.

bullying happens in this forum too…

 

[Orion Bailey]

I haven't made any excuses for school shooters. Bringing a gun to school is never the answer.

I'm simply looking at the psychology behind why it happens.

Calling out bullies. Why does that upset you?

i suppose for the same reason it upset so many when i called out the bullies here?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I haven't made any excuses for school shooters. Bringing a gun to school is never the answer.

I'm simply looking at the psychology behind why it happens.

Calling out bullies. Why does that upset you?

You absolutely are making excuses for school shooters. Saying its because they were bullied. You are justifying their mass killing and lack of self control because their feelings get butt hurt.

These psycho kids interpret everything different from normal people. Bullying could mean someone wearing a new jacket. Like I said, their brains ain't wired right. There are TONS of mentally unstable people out there in society, in schools, hell, even some of my friends.

There has to be better ways to force these people to get better or take them out of functional society.

 

[Chris Craig]

bullying happens in this forum too…

Yes, there is

When I see it, I call it out. Glad you do the same even if it's not always taken kindly to.

 

[Phatguysrule]

You absolutely are making excuses for school shooters. Saying its because they were bullied. You are justifying their mass killing and lack of self control because their feelings get butt hurt.

These psycho kids interpret everything different from normal people. Bullying could mean someone wearing a new jacket. Like I said, their brains ain't wired right. There are TONS of mentally unstable people out there in society, in schools, hell, even some of my friends.

There has to be better ways to force these people to get better or take them out of functional society.

No, acknowledging the problem is not the same as making excuses.

These people are fucked in the head. They got that way somehow. And we have that problem more than other first world countries.

That's not making excuses, IMO. It's actually trying to address problem.

 

[calvin natt]

So the dad bought the gun a few days before and told kid to not talk to authorities. If his ass doesn’t end up in prison then what. This is the type of stuff that needs harsh law enforcement that miiiiiight help a little bit. Hold daddy accountable

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

No, acknowledging the problem is not the same as making excuses.

These people are fucked in the head. They got that way somehow. And we have that problem more than other first world countries.

That's not making excuses, IMO. It's actually trying to address problem.

The problem is the shooter and the gun. Stop with the baby gloves in handling these people.

Some people are just crazy. No bullying, just crazy.

And they snap.

 

[Chris Craig]

You absolutely are making excuses for school shooters. Saying its because they were bullied. You are justifying their mass killing and lack of self control because their feelings get butt hurt.

These psycho kids interpret everything different from normal people. Bullying could mean someone wearing a new jacket. Like I said, their brains ain't wired right. There are TONS of mentally unstable people out there in society, in schools, hell, even some of my friends.

There has to be better ways to force these people to get better or take them out of functional society.

No I am not. Go back and read my posts. There is no excuse for bringing a gun to school. That is not how you solve problems. There is no excuse for it.

I'm not justifying anything. I am simply looking at the physiology and psychology of these events.

The divisional language you use..."normies" "psycho kids" etc is part of the problem.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

No I am not. Go back and read my posts. There is no excuse for bringing a gun to school. That is not how you solve problems. There is no excuse for it.

I'm not justifying anything. I am simply looking at the physiology and psychology of these events.

The divisional language you use..."normies" "psycho kids" etc is part of the problem.

I said the kids who shoot up schools are fucked up in the head.

And you respond "BUT BULLIES!"

Yeah, that's making an excuse.

 

[calvin natt]

The problem is the shooter and the gun. Stop with the baby gloves in handling these people.

Some people are just crazy. No bullying, just crazy.

And they snap.

I mean I kinda get what you’re saying but it’s not like bullying - real bullying - doesn’t or can’t have a huge impact on a kid. Now, that kid probably already has some underlying psychological issues, but can’t being bullied push him over the edge? Again. No excuse. Plenty get bullied and don’t whip out a gun. But it can impact an unstable kid easily.

 

[Chris Craig]

I said the kids who shoot up schools are fucked up in the head.

And you respond "BUT BULLIES!"

Yeah, that's making an excuse.

That was not my response.

I said something akin to bullies are fucked up in the head too, meaning I didn't disagree with what you said. I just added a point.

I'm not excusing anything.

 

[Orion Bailey]

The problem is the shooter and the gun. Stop with the baby gloves in handling these people.

Some people are just crazy. No bullying, just crazy.

And they snap.

Not everything gets solved by pampering and hand holding. As a matter of fact, often it just results in enabling more of the same behavior.

 

[Chris Craig]

I mean I kinda get what you’re saying but it’s not like bullying - real bullying - doesn’t or can’t have a huge impact on a kid. Now, that kid probably already has some underlying psychological issues, but can’t being bullied push him over the edge? Again. No excuse. Plenty get bullied and don’t whip out a gun. But it can impact an unstable kid easily.

Yes.

This is what happens in many cases.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I mean I kinda get what you’re saying but it’s not like bullying - real bullying - doesn’t or can’t have a huge impact on a kid. Now, that kid probably already has some underlying psychological issues, but can’t being bullied push him over the edge? Again. No excuse. Plenty get bullied and don’t whip out a gun. But it can impact an unstable kid easily.

Like I said, people interpret things different. What's normal behavior to someone is bullying to another. Someone living a good life, can make people resentful and that person would feel that they are inferior or are being bullied because they aren't living the same life.

Sure, there are bullys out there and dicks who push kids into lockers and crap like that. Those guys usually end up as losers in life anyway too.