Notice From My Cold Dead Hands...... (1 Viewer)

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Automobiles are still traceable with private sales.

And yes, it's not easy. There is nothing about this that is easy.

They are traceable, but it's apples to oranges. Cars are sold for the purpose of driving, and tend to be driven every day. Lots of people buy guys for antique/collection, and some will collect them for self defense/murder, etc.

I dont know how they'll be able to trace private sales (unethical sales) for guns that aren't used on a regular basis, etc...Should guns be registered like a car, insured like a car, and the owner be liable for certain things? Yes.

Just don't know how they'd ever be able to do it, due to the insane # of them out there.

I know, we should just offer thoughts and prayers and call it a day!


...

(not saying you said that)
 
I dont think anyone should be buying or collecting guys, but that's just me.
 
They are traceable, but it's apples to oranges. Cars are sold for the purpose of driving, and tend to be driven every day. Lots of people buy guys for antique/collection, and some will collect them for self defense/murder, etc.

I dont know how they'll be able to trace private sales (unethical sales) for guns that aren't used on a regular basis, etc...Should guns be registered like a car, insured like a car, and the owner be liable for certain things? Yes.

Just don't know how they'd ever be able to do it, due to the insane # of them out there.

I know, we should just offer thoughts and prayers and call it a day!


...

(not saying you said that)

You do understand that in Oregon private sales have to do a background check, right? Adding in an additional gun and rifling registration would not be impossible.
 
You do understand that in Oregon private sales have to do a background check, right? Adding in an additional gun and rifling registration would not be impossible.

It's the fact there are 400 million guns, that's what I'm talking about why it's going to be super difficult.
 
It's the fact there are 400 million guns, that's what I'm talking about why it's going to be super difficult.

When you purchase ammo you have to give the registration number of the gun(s) you are purchasing it for. If you lie and that ammo is found to be used in an unregistered gun there is an additional criminal penalty, it is a felony and ends your legal gun ownership.
 
I'm not anti-gun.

I'll say it again, I'm not anti-gun.

But the system we have now is fucking stupid.

And proposing to add even more guns into this fucking system is even more stupid.

Guns and ammo need to be registered, identified, and traceable.

A bullet casing found on the ground needs to be able to be tracked back to a purchaser.

The rifling of every gun needs to be known and registered.

If someone fires off a gun the process of finding that person needs to be much more simplified.

We track fucking peanut butter better than we track guns and ammo.

Last month we bought Jiff from Costco. There is now a recall. Costco contacted me, told me to throw it out and next time I'm there stop at the desk for a refund. Then Smuckers, who owns Jiff contacted me via phone and is sending me a coupon for free peanut butter. Apparently, I'm now in Big Peanut Butter's database.

When you buy a used car, you know who has owned it previously and if it was in an accident. You know the history of the vehicle.

We don't know this with guns.

Gun control is not a bad thing.

Every gun needs to be registered, the rifling identified, and every bullet needs its own id number traceable back to the purchaser.
I'm 100% with you on all of this, however, what about when Carvana hides the vehicle history from you.... Sorry, wrong thread.
 
I'm 100% with you on all of this, however, what about when Carvana hides the vehicle history from you.... Sorry, wrong thread.

But isn't that the point, the records on your car eventually caught up with the fraud that Carvana was committing.
 
I just can't imagine hearing 19 kids are murdered and feeling like, well, I should hop online and defend the second amendment. And propose more guns as the answer.

I hope you're not referring to anybody in this forum. I have seen no evidence of that.
 
I'm not anti-gun.

I'll say it again, I'm not anti-gun.

But the system we have now is fucking stupid.

And proposing to add even more guns into this fucking system is even more stupid.

Guns and ammo need to be registered, identified, and traceable.

A bullet casing found on the ground needs to be able to be tracked back to a purchaser.

The rifling of every gun needs to be known and registered.

If someone fires off a gun the process of finding that person needs to be much more simplified.

We track fucking peanut butter better than we track guns and ammo.

Last month we bought Jiff from Costco. There is now a recall. Costco contacted me, told me to throw it out and next time I'm there stop at the desk for a refund. Then Smuckers, who owns Jiff contacted me via phone and is sending me a coupon for free peanut butter. Apparently, I'm now in Big Peanut Butter's database.

When you buy a used car, you know who has owned it previously and if it was in an accident. You know the history of the vehicle.

We don't know this with guns.

Gun control is not a bad thing.

Every gun needs to be registered, the rifling identified, and every bullet needs its own id number traceable back to the purchaser.
If we dropped everything else (no push for increased access or education, give up on universal Healthcare, workers rights, let abortion rights go away, forget about gay marriage, etc) and put all of our efforts into this it would still take decades to get it through.

And no gun control short of this will make anything more than a "statistically insignificant" difference.

You aren't going to get rid of hundreds of millions of unregistered guns. Many of the registered guns will be "lost in a hosting accident", and you will have to take guns away from literally millions of Americans who have been raised to fight for their gun rights of police come to take them. They view it as a life or death situation, and they will fight to the death.

Police aren't at all interested in that.

I get what you're saying, it just breaks my heart these kinds of things are going to keep happening because we simply refuse to set up better systems to catch people at risk of this behavior...
 
They are traceable, but it's apples to oranges. Cars are sold for the purpose of driving, and tend to be driven every day. Lots of people buy guys for antique/collection, and some will collect them for self defense/murder, etc.

I dont know how they'll be able to trace private sales (unethical sales) for guns that aren't used on a regular basis, etc...Should guns be registered like a car, insured like a car, and the owner be liable for certain things? Yes.

Just don't know how they'd ever be able to do it, due to the insane # of them out there.

I know, we should just offer thoughts and prayers and call it a day!


...

(not saying you said that)
They can't. It's just not something that can logically happen to the point that we stop enough psychos from getting guns to avoid a school being attacked like this every now and then.
 
Its frustrating that seemingly "pillars" of our society, our "laws" or just assumed right at this point in 2022 - and yes they are different as one is the 2nd Amendment and the other being Roe v Wade, in basically no time Republicans can wipe out something so significant and been around for decades, supported by so many...but there's nothing we can do about an outdated, pointless 2nd amendment from 1791. SEVENTEEN NINETY ONE. We added the 2nd amendment and the state of Vermont that year.
The meaning of the 2nd amendment was confirmed by the Supreme Court in 2008... It'll likely rule again to restrict states rights to enforce gun control in the next year or so.

It'll take a constitutional convention to do more. And 2/3 of states will have to approve the changes.
 
The issue is private sales basically make this moot. It's not as easy to do this with the 400 million guns vs the cars we have, since cars have Vin #'s, etc.

We definitely need to do something different, and "more guns!!1!" isn't it.
If we can't count on police then we'll have to count on ourselves.

There is no in between. Either we fix police or more people will want guns. Gun ownership rates have been climbing for the last few years (since it became obvious the police are useless)...
 
If we dropped everything else (no push for increased access or education, give up on universal Healthcare, workers rights, let abortion rights go away, forget about gay marriage, etc) and put all of our efforts into this it would still take decades to get it through.

And no gun control short of this will make anything more than a "statistically insignificant" difference.

You aren't going to get rid of hundreds of millions of unregistered guns. Many of the registered guns will be "lost in a hosting accident", and you will have to take guns away from literally millions of Americans who have been raised to fight for their gun rights of police come to take them. They view it as a life or death situation, and they will fight to the death.

Police aren't at all interested in that.

I get what you're saying, it just breaks my heart these kinds of things are going to keep happening because we simply refuse to set up better systems to catch people at risk of this behavior...

Apparently, police are at all interested in stopping a school shooting either. Police aren't interested in processing rape kits. Police aren't interested in a lot fucking things.

Like the old Chris Rock joke:
“You don’t need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets, that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders.
Yeah! Every time somebody get shut we’d say, ‘Damn, he must have done something ... Shit, he’s got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.’
And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. ‘Man I would blow your fucking head off…if I could afford it.’ ‘I’m gonna get me another job, I’m going to start saving some money, and you’re a dead man. You’d better hope I can’t get no bullets on layaway.’
So even if you get shot by a stray bullet, you wouldn't have to go to no doctor to get it taken out. Whoever shot you would take their bullet back, like "I believe you got my property.”

Meaning you start the process of greater gun and ammo data at the point of sale of guns and ammo. You add criminal and liability penalties for people that do not follow them. If you're caught using registered ammo in an unregistered gun there is a criminal penalty enhancement.
 
Was supposed to be every *law abiding* citizen.

And not in response to the shooting, but in response to police screwing the pooch so severely and deliberately.
 
Apparently, police are at all interested in stopping a school shooting either. Police aren't interested in processing rape kits. Police aren't interested in a lot fucking things.

Like the old Chris Rock joke:
“You don’t need no gun control, you know what you need? We need some bullet control. Men, we need to control the bullets, that’s right. I think all bullets should cost five thousand dollars… five thousand dollars per bullet… You know why? Cause if a bullet cost five thousand dollars there would be no more innocent bystanders.
Yeah! Every time somebody get shut we’d say, ‘Damn, he must have done something ... Shit, he’s got fifty thousand dollars worth of bullets in his ass.’
And people would think before they killed somebody if a bullet cost five thousand dollars. ‘Man I would blow your fucking head off…if I could afford it.’ ‘I’m gonna get me another job, I’m going to start saving some money, and you’re a dead man. You’d better hope I can’t get no bullets on layaway.’
So even if you get shot by a stray bullet, you wouldn't have to go to no doctor to get it taken out. Whoever shot you would take their bullet back, like "I believe you got my property.”

Meaning you start the process of greater gun and ammo data at the point of sale of guns and ammo. You add criminal and liability penalties for people that do not follow them. If you're caught using registered ammo in an unregistered gun there is a criminal penalty enhancement.
What about ammo people make at home? Is that illegal? What about ammo that people have stocked up on? That stuff lasts decades...

If you're going to do something like this it's going to have a sunset provision. I don't think you'll get that aneay, but just assuming you did.

If there aren't nearly immediate significant measurable proven drops in gun crime it's just going to sunset. And there is no way to make that kind of impact consider the sheer volume of existing and unregistered guns and ammo in this country.

I understand that it would be great to be able to track down a murderer easily. But there is just too much political momentum against anything that can allow that to happen more effectively by further regulating guns in this country.

It's just a shame that we're too stubborn to shift the political will to things which are not as fervently opposed, but would likely significantly reduce violent crime and murder rates (far more so than any gun control ever has), while also being generally great for the country as a whole.
 
Sort of fucks up the case that well trained, responsible legal American gun owners are going to keep the peace and protect the public......first of all blanket statements don't apply in a complex society...saying things like children aren't psychotic or police aren't going to try to save lives, etc.....take the situation for what it is...hold THOSE people accountable but when I was held up and ro bbed by 3 teens with handguns the last thing I thought was...."I need more guns!" and the police caught the kids after they'd pistol whipped an 80 year old woman for her cigarettes...yeah. Fear is a bitch but every situation is unique...the thing that isn't is that we have too many weapons and too much ammo in this country and it's bound to fall into the wrong hands. Limiting ammo is an important step.....I saw boxes of 9mm bullets for sale at bimart with 1000 rounds...no hunter needs 1000 rounds of ammo. A good hunter needs two bullets at a time tops...shotguns hold two rounds....in England guns are illegal except for manually chambered hunting rifles and shotguns...I like that approach.
 
How about we just completely end gun sales in America from here on forward (other than private sales with major restrictions)? If someone wants a gun, they can inherit it or buy from an existing gun owner. But if there are over four hundred million guns in America, that's enough. The arithmetic says that enough guns exist in this country so that every single American can have one (and then some). Ending gun sales is not saying Americans can't own guns, they just can't buy new ones and will have to be satisfied with their "old" ones. See how that works? They have a right to bear arms, they just don't have the right to buy them "commercially" anymore. Both sides "win"..........
 
Sort of fucks up the case that well trained, responsible legal American gun owners are going to keep the peace and protect the public......first of all blanket statements don't apply in a complex society...saying things like children aren't psychotic or police aren't going to try to save lives, etc.....take the situation for what it is...hold THOSE people accountable but when I was held up and ro bbed by 3 teens with handguns the last thing I thought was...."I need more guns!" and the police caught the kids after they'd pistol whipped an 80 year old woman for her cigarettes...yeah. Fear is a bitch but every situation is unique...the thing that isn't is that we have too many weapons and too much ammo in this country and it's bound to fall into the wrong hands. Limiting ammo is an important step.....I saw boxes of 9mm bullets for sale at bimart with 1000 rounds...no hunter needs 1000 rounds of ammo. A good hunter needs two bullets at a time tops...shotguns hold two rounds....in England guns are illegal except for manually chambered hunting rifles and shotguns...I like that approach.
Context matters in those blanket statements. Police can obviously not be counted on to insert themselves between an armed psycho and elementary school children.

They've deliberately avoided doing so on multiple occasions. This is not people making mistakes, this is how they are trained.

And as a general rule, getting close to a gun doesn't make people (including children) want to kill other people.

1000 rounda of ammo goes pretty quick when you are sport shooting with a group. Or if you're trying to stock up before the next lockdown.

In general, 9mm isn't used for hunting anyway. That's a handgun round. And it is comparably cheap, which is great for target practice with a gun that has some kick.

Especially in a group.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top