Notice From My Cold Dead Hands...... (1 Viewer)

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This is unrelated to most of the discussion or maybe it isn't, but, I just pulled out a substantial amount of cash on my lunch break to pay a contractor. I won't be meeting him until this evening. This is the only time in my life that I can remember where I've thought I could use a gun, besides for sport. It makes sense to me why drug dealers and law breakers want them. You have to protect your stacks. During that drive from the bank back to work where I can get it locked away safely all I could think about was, "I'd probably fucking kill someone if they tried to take this from me". That's a scary thought to have. IDK
 
This is unrelated to most of the discussion or maybe it isn't, but, I just pulled out a substantial amount of cash on my lunch break to pay a contractor. I won't be meeting him until this evening. This is the only time in my life that I can remember where I've thought I could use a gun, besides for sport. It makes sense to me why drug dealers and law breakers want them. You have to protect your stacks. During that drive from the bank back to work where I can get it locked away safely all I could think about was, "I'd probably fucking kill someone if they tried to take this from me". That's a scary thought to have. IDK
Now, imagine if you made so little and had so little that you felt that way about $100.

Welcome to America's violent crime problem.
 
Access to cigarettes hasn't gotten harder...

That's not correct. When I was a kid you could (and I did) buy cigarettes from vending machines. Stores had them at the counters, not locked away. And of course they were much much cheaper (even after accounting for inflation).

barfo
 
That's not correct. When I was a kid you could (and I did) buy cigarettes from vending machines. Stores had them at the counters, not locked away. And of course they were much much cheaper (even after accounting for inflation).

barfo
So then the age restriction laws which were in place since 1939, at latest, didn't make a difference... Gotcha.
 
There should be no effort required to prevent yourself from restricting the rights of law abiding citizens...

I'm not even sure how this tweet makes any sense...
If you read the story it’s about a water main break.
 
So then the age restriction laws which were in place since 1939, at latest, didn't make a difference... Gotcha.

That's right, laws don't make a difference! We should just eliminate laws and let the invisible hand of the market solve all of our problems.

I don't actually understand what point you are trying to make. Obviously lots of things made a difference, including multiple laws.

barfo
 
That's right, laws don't make a difference! We should just eliminate laws and let the invisible hand of the market solve all of our problems.

I don't actually understand what point you are trying to make. Obviously lots of things made a difference, including multiple laws.

barfo
Well every state had age laws since 1939. Yet you're saying when you were a kid you could apparently buy cigarettes.

My point is that people didn't stop smoking because of a law prohibiting it, they stopped smoking because they were educated on the risks and because of that education it became socially less acceptable to put others at risk.

The point is prohibition isn't effective. Education and social solutions are far more effective and far less damaging to society.
 
Well every state had age laws since 1939. Yet you're saying when you were a kid you could apparently buy cigarettes.

My point is that people didn't stop smoking because of a law prohibiting it, they stopped smoking because they were educated on the risks and because of that education it became socially less acceptable to put others at risk.

The point is prohibition isn't effective. Education and social solutions are far more effective and far less damaging to society.

Well, in the case of cigarettes, there were later laws passed that would have made it - had I somehow still been a kid - much harder for me to get cigarettes. I was brave enough to buy a pack from a vending machine when no one was around, but those don't exist anymore, due to laws. I wasn't brave enough to pay an adult to buy them for me as a pre-teen, or to steal them.

The reasons why people smoke less today include the factors you mentioned, but they also include the higher prices, better addiction treatments, and the more limited availability to kids.

Cigarettes have not been prohibited - at least not recently in this country - so we don't have data on whether that would be effective or not.

barfo
 
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Actually in the case of cigarettes what changed was that someone actually started enforcing the laws. Well known fact that if you can stop a kid from starting smoking before 18 the chances of him ever becoming a smoker is greatly reduced.
Funny how that works.
Back to reading the thread. I will bow out again.
 
Well, in the case of cigarettes, there were later laws passed that would have made it - had I somehow still been a kid - much harder for me to get cigarettes. I was brave enough to buy a pack from a vending machine when no one was around, but those don't exist anymore, due to laws. I wasn't brave enough to pay an adult to buy them for me as a pre-teen, or to steal them.

The reasons why people smoke less today include the factors you mentioned, but they also include the higher prices, better addiction treatments, and the more limited availability to kids.

Cigarettes have not been prohibited - at least not recently in this country - so we don't have data on whether that would be effective or not.

barfo
Did prohibition on weed work? Did prohibition on alcohol work? Has prohibition on drugs worked?

We have plenty of data showing that prohibition is more harmful than it is good.

I'm not opposed to laws preventing targeting children or dangerous people in marketing. Or at least allowing companies to be sued for targeting kids or dangerous people.

I'm fine with restrictions on dangerous business practices.
 
Well known fact that if you can stop a kid from starting smoking before 18 the chances of him ever becoming a smoker is greatly reduced.
Funny how that works.
Back to reading the thread. I will bow out again.
Education is the best way to do that.

Much like the abortion debate. Marijuana, alcohol, drugs in general. Prohibition doesn't work.

It's far more damaging than education and treatment.
 
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This is unrelated to most of the discussion or maybe it isn't, but, I just pulled out a substantial amount of cash on my lunch break to pay a contractor. I won't be meeting him until this evening. This is the only time in my life that I can remember where I've thought I could use a gun, besides for sport. It makes sense to me why drug dealers and law breakers want them. You have to protect your stacks. During that drive from the bank back to work where I can get it locked away safely all I could think about was, "I'd probably fucking kill someone if they tried to take this from me". That's a scary thought to have. IDK
What's scary in this story is paying a contractor in cash....that seems really risky to me...hope you got proof of payment
 
What's scary in this story is paying a contractor in cash....that seems really risky to me...hope you got proof of payment
Fair point. He's a friend and a trustworthy dude. We did get proof of payment and it's going to save us some money by doing the transaction in cash.
 
Did prohibition on weed work? Did prohibition on alcohol work? Has prohibition on drugs worked?

We have plenty of data showing that prohibition is more harmful than it is good.
It depends on what you are prohibiting. Banning sex will never work, since everyone has the necessary equipment already. Nuclear missile bans work very well so far (within the country) since those are large and hard to obtain materials for.

I guess I'd say that weed and booze didn't work because it's very easy to grow weed, as I did, and fairly easy to make moonshine, as my grandpappy did.

Drugs has been a mixed bag, I'd say - they are harder to make, but tend to be easy to smuggle due to small size. It's certainly harder to get drugs than the other two, but it is possible. I'd say prohibition may have stopped some potential drug use, but I'm certainly not claiming it was/is the right policy.

Cigs are a different matter. The fun factor is much lower, so there's less incentive to break the law to get them. I think prohibition would likely significantly reduce the number of smokers over time, although it would redirect money that now goes to taxes to smugglers, which doesn't seem like a great idea. I'm not in favor of banning them, but it would probably reduce smoking overall.

barfo
 
It depends on what you are prohibiting. Banning sex will never work, since everyone has the necessary equipment already. Nuclear missile bans work very well so far (within the country) since those are large and hard to obtain materials for.

I guess I'd say that weed and booze didn't work because it's very easy to grow weed, as I did, and fairly easy to make moonshine, as my grandpappy did.

Drugs has been a mixed bag, I'd say - they are harder to make, but tend to be easy to smuggle due to small size. It's certainly harder to get drugs than the other two, but it is possible. I'd say prohibition may have stopped some potential drug use, but I'm certainly not claiming it was/is the right policy.

Cigs are a different matter. The fun factor is much lower, so there's less incentive to break the law to get them. I think prohibition would likely significantly reduce the number of smokers over time, although it would redirect money that now goes to taxes to smugglers, which doesn't seem like a great idea. I'm not in favor of banning them, but it would probably reduce smoking overall.

barfo
I think they'd just smoke something else... Which would likely be as damaging to their health or more so. And the increased black market and rebel factor would far outweigh the benefits of the prohibition.

Education is the difference. It's not hard for kids to get cigarettes. My kids are offered cigarettes, alcohol, and other drugs all the time (meaning once or twice per school year), and have been since 6th grade. They could get it any time they want.

We educate them. That's the only effective solution.
 
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Fair point. He's a friend and a trustworthy dude. We did get proof of payment and it's going to save us some money by doing the transaction in cash.
I will also mention that these monies where specifically for supplies, so the risk that I have 35 squares of sheeting stored is my garage is one I'm not too worried about accepting.
 

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