Future of NBA in Seattle.......

[jlprk]

So you are calling very crappy repairs to a completely run down arena a new stadium? If that is what Seattle thinks constitutes a new arena then it's no wonder they left.

They weren't repairs; an all-new arena was built. Yes, it wasn't a show-off cathedral, but the Sonics drew up the plans. Soon after it was finished, they started wanting more. They later admitted that asking for more had been their plan all along.

Portland is lucky to have an owner who treats the team like a charity and doesn't try to make a profit. From any other owner, Oregon would get the same demands that Seattle got. At least Oregon has an income tax.

 

[hoopsjock]

They weren't repairs; an all-new arena was built. Yes, it wasn't a show-off cathedral, but the Sonics drew up the plans. Soon after it was finished, they started wanting more. They later admitted that asking for more had been their plan all along.

Portland is lucky to have an owner who treats the team like a charity and doesn't try to make a profit. From any other owner, Oregon would get the same demands that Seattle got. At least Oregon has an income tax.

I don't know what you are talking about. If it was new why did it look like complete ass 5 years later?

 

[jlprk]

It was brand new but small, e.g. narrower corridors than Rose Garden. Describe what you mean by complete ass.

 

[hoopsjock]

It was brand new but small, e.g. narrower corridors than Rose Garden. Describe what you mean by complete ass.

Are you talking about renovating Key Arena? The seats were all torn up and broken (everywhere in the arena). Everything was old, outdated, and falling apart. It was dark and gloomy in there. The roof looked like it was going to fall at any moment. I really have no idea what you are talking about. It's like you think there is some mythical arena they built.

 

[Orion Bailey]

It was brand new but small, e.g. narrower corridors than Rose Garden. Describe what you mean by complete ass.

Yeah what ARE you talking about? If it was new then why would they have to be doing this so soon after even though a ball team hasn't been playing there???

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports...ouncement-of-general-contractor-skanska-hunt/

 

[Orion Bailey]

I think you're over-stating just how much potential future business the asg/asw brings.

Possibly. But you didnt name anythign else that would come close to producing the revenue or spotlight on Portland.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Its possible I am believing the wrong sources here -
Ive been led to believe that most ‘events’ all star games, olympics, superbowls, and things that really can grind a city to a halt for days or more are normally more of a financial burden overall then they are a boon. Now for a really large city say LA or NY they’re so immense they have the infrastructure to handle those type of events without much of an issue. A city portlands size though would be debilitated for a while, which in the long run would cause businesses to be unable to do business, which hurts the local economy.

Ive got no real proof of that other than Ive heard talking heads on the radio or TV allude to that, I could be very wrong.

Its not just about that weekend though. Its about what that weekend does for Portlands name getting on the map of businesses looking for locations to expand to. Oh Portland has an ASG? Its hot and hapening. Maybe we should consider expanding there.
Or all of the advertisements about the ASG priro to it happening all constantly mentioning Porltand for a year. This spikes interest in investors.
This is an entertainment world with fame gaining a spotlight. Lets let that light shine on us and see what happens.

Anyhow, all im saying is I highly doubt the city/league is going to let the team go considering the hotel boom going on around the moda center. to lose their single greatest revenue would stagnate the rose quarters growth and create a blown quarter instead....

When have you seen a hotel boom like this centralized around a stadium in a single sport town and then see the team leave a short time later?

I cant think of any.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Its not just about that weekend though. Its about what that weekend does for Portlands name getting on the map of businesses looking for locations to expand to. Oh Portland has an ASG? Its hot and hapening. Maybe we should consider expanding there.
Or all of the advertisements about the ASG priro to it happening all constantly mentioning Porltand for a year. This spikes interest in investors.
This is an entertainment world with fame gaining a spotlight. Lets let that light shine on us and see what happens.

Anyhow, all im saying is I highly doubt the city/league is going to let the team go considering the hotel boom going on around the moda center. to lose their single greatest revenue would stagnate the rose quarters growth and create a blown quarter instead....

When have you seen a hotel boom like this centralized around a stadium in a single sport town and then see the team leave a short time later?

I cant think of any.

I kind of question how many companies big enough to move that ‘needle’ care about where asg’s are being played. Im not really for or against an asg in portland as I mostly find mysef apathetic towards it.

Edit: Oh and Im not worried about the team moving.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I kind of question how many companies big enough to move that ‘needle’ care about where asg’s are being played. Im not really for or against an asg in portland as I mostly find mysef apathetic towards.

Im not talking about Intell saying oh... shit. Portland has an ASG now? Lets double our plant production there.

im talking about small to mid sized companies that are looking to expand and branch out. but mostly overall growth.
People come, that creates the need for more jobs, which means more business. MOre business means more jobs which means people will come here.

Now there IS the argument, do we want much more growth in Portland?
I'm addicted to growth(there is a joke there someone will find im sure) i'm fascinated with it on many aspects.

But yes, I think an event of that caliber puts a megalight on this city that it hasn't had before and I think that peaks interest on most levels.

Kind of like the olympics, we are already seeing growth just by seeking it. It is forcing the city to grow to be able to handle the capacity such an event. so some of the growth comes before it even gets scheduled.

Yes I do believe ASG's provide decent growth for a city of our size.

A larger city, while being able to handle the logistics of it better, is also able to absorb the excitement with other major events goign on and thus is not a growth spurt for them like it could be for us.

just my opinion though. Im not schooled on all the facets and don't know all the facts.

 

[jlprk]

What new arena? Key Arena was an absolute dump. I went to the final Blazers game there and I couldn't believe the NBA allowed one of their teams to play in an arena that poor.

It was about 10 years old then. The new Okie team owners were trying to motivate Seattlites to give them a new half-billion dollar stadium. Another reason to let it run down that last year was...it was their last year. They were leaving.

Are you talking about renovating Key Arena? The seats were all torn up and broken (everywhere in the arena). Everything was old, outdated, and falling apart. It was dark and gloomy in there. The roof looked like it was going to fall at any moment. I really have no idea what you are talking about. It's like you think there is some mythical arena they built.

That must not have been in its prime before the Sonics were on the verge of leaving. Or was this even later, after they left?

Yeah what ARE you talking about? If it was new then why would they have to be doing this so soon after even though a ball team hasn't been playing there???

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports...ouncement-of-general-contractor-skanska-hunt/

That's a 2018 article about future construction.

I'm talking about when a new arena was built about 20-25 years ago. It wasn't just renovated. I saw it being built from the ground up after they tore down the old one, down to deep underground. The media likes the word renovation, but it wasn't just renovated.

 

[Orion Bailey]

It was about 10 years old then. The new Okie team owners were trying to movtivate Seattlites to give them a new half-billion dollar stadium. Another reason to let it run down that last year was...it was their last year. They were leaving.





That's a 2018 article about future construction.

I'm talking about when a new arena was built about 20-25 years ago. It wasn't just renovated. I saw it being built from the ground up after they tore down the old one, down to deep underground. The media likes the word renovation, but it wasn't just renovated.

I understand its from 2018. Ten years after the Sonics left. It needs a complete overhaul.

Okay, but the Sonics left in 2018. 10 years ago. So that new arena was 10-15 years old when they left. 10-15 years in arena life is pretty old. and Im willing to bet was due for a renovation when the sonics left.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Im not talking about Intell saying oh... shit. Portland has an ASG now? Lets double our plant production there.

im talking about small to mid sized companies that are looking to expand and branch out. but mostly overall growth.
People come, that creates the need for more jobs, which means more business. MOre business means more jobs which means people will come here.

Now there IS the argument, do we want much more growth in Portland?
I'm addicted to growth(there is a joke there someone will find im sure) i'm fascinated with it on many aspects.

But yes, I think an event of that caliber puts a megalight on this city that it hasn't had before and I think that peaks interest on most levels.

Kind of like the olympics, we are already seeing growth just by seeking it. It is forcing the city to grow to be able to handle the capacity such an event. so some of the growth comes before it even gets scheduled.

Yes I do believe ASG's provide decent growth for a city of our size.

A larger city, while being able to handle the logistics of it better, is also able to absorb the excitement with other major events goign on and thus is not a growth spurt for them like it could be for us.

just my opinion though. Im not schooled on all the facets and don't know all the facts.

I understand what you’re saying, I do realize you said businesses expanding and not neccesarilly moving hq’s as well. I just dont know. Im sure if we looked hard enough we could find some actual data out there on the effects it has.

 

[Orion Bailey]

@jlprk

"The doors opened on the newly renovated arena and home court for the Seattle Sonics on October 26, 1995. The arena accommodates up to 16,000 for sporting events, and with help from its flexible lay-out it is adaptable to more intimate gatherings of 5,000 to 9,000. In 2002, KeyArena welcomed the WNBA Seattle Storm."

13 years later the Sonics left. Are you saying it was renovated and in that 13 year period or this was the renovation that should have kept them there?

 

[Orion Bailey]

I understand what you’re saying, I do realize you said businesses expanding and not necessarily moving hq’s as well. I just don't know. I'm sure if we looked hard enough we could find some actual data out there on the effects it has.

Probably a little bit of both.

But to the original topic, I think because the city is hunting hard for the ASG, that's a sure sign the team isn't going anywhere, whether it is a boost to the economy or not.

 

[jlprk]

I understand its from 2018. Ten years after the Sonics left. It needs a complete overhaul.

Okay, but the Sonics left in 2018. 10 years ago. So that new arena was 10-15 years old when they left. 10-15 years in arena life is pretty old. and Im willing to bet was due for a renovation when the sonics left.

It was built in the 90s, completed I think in the late 90s. By about 2002 the team was whining for expansion of the fucking 5-year-old building. Taxpayers said buzz off, and they left about 2008. It wouldn't surprise me if management let it become dusty at the end, for the 2 reasons I stated. But that's not why the team moved. The reason was that they were Okies, and they could get their own state to subsidize them.

 

[Orion Bailey]

It was built in the 90s, completed I think in the late 90s. By about 2002 the team was whining for expansion of the fucking 5-year-old building. Taxpayers said buzz off, and they left about 2008. It wouldn't surprise me if management let it become dusty at the end, for the 2 reasons I stated. But that's not why the team moved. The reason was that they were Okies, and they could get their own state to subsidize them.

Your math is a little off there, but you are right about the real reason they left. It was a mobsta style deal no doubt about it.

 

[jlprk]

Your math is a little off there, but you are right about the real reason they left. It was a mobsta style deal no doubt about it.

Instead of math, let's try logic.

A = The team was moving.
B = The arena got dirty the last year.

You guys say that B caused A. I say that A caused B.

A --> B
not
B --> A

 

[julius]

Possibly. But you didnt name anythign else that would come close to producing the revenue or spotlight on Portland.

I don't need to. I wasn't the one who claimed the hotels were being built because of the all star game, or that it would create a lot of future revenue for the city.

 

[hoopsjock]

It was about 10 years old then. The new Okie team owners were trying to motivate Seattlites to give them a new half-billion dollar stadium. Another reason to let it run down that last year was...it was their last year. They were leaving.



That must not have been in its prime before the Sonics were on the verge of leaving. Or was this even later, after they left?



That's a 2018 article about future construction.

I'm talking about when a new arena was built about 20-25 years ago. It wasn't just renovated. I saw it being built from the ground up after they tore down the old one, down to deep underground. The media likes the word renovation, but it wasn't just renovated.

You're really confusing at one point you say 5 years, and then 10 years, when it was actually 13 years later. I went to other events there prior to that and it was never really that well maintained. I was actually surprised the NBA allowed them to play there it was that bad. The only cool thing about it is the location, unless you're trying to find parking.

The ownership of the Sonics changed hands a couple times after the "rebuilding" of Key Arena. Unlike the Rose Garden though, doesn't the City of Seattle own the building? Unless I'm missing something that means that it's the city that let the arena go to shit, not Clay Bennett. It's further proven by the fact that they do in fact have to renovate it again now and are doing so.

Edit: The Rose Garden was completed in 1995 too just like the rebuild of Key Arena. I blame everyone involved equally if that place was crap a few years later while the Rose Garden is still in really good shape after 23 years.

 

[kjironman1]

Are you talking about renovating Key Arena? The seats were all torn up and broken (everywhere in the arena). Everything was old, outdated, and falling apart. It was dark and gloomy in there. The roof looked like it was going to fall at any moment. I really have no idea what you are talking about. It's like you think there is some mythical arena they built.

Key Arena was built in 1961 and opened in 1962. Not sure what he is talking about either.

Then it was renovated in 1994.
The place was very old and dilapidated.

 

[hoopsjock]

Key Arena was built in 1961 and opened in 1962. Not sure what he is talking about either.

They did a renovation in 1995 which was basically to tear it down and rebuild it. I just couldn't follow what he was saying because he initially said 5 years prior.

 

[kjironman1]

They did a renovation in 1995 which was basically to tear it down and rebuild it. I just couldn't follow what he was saying because he initially said 5 years prior.

But they still had the same basic structure and design.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Orion Bailey]

I don't need to. I wasn't the one who claimed the hotels were being built because of the all star game, or that it would create a lot of future revenue for the city.

Okay. Well you were refuting my opinion without substance. Your differing would go further to sell me if it came with some credentials to debunk my opinion.

I didnt say i had to, but when people say someone’s opinion is incorrect, they usually back it up with some facts...

Thought that was just common communication.

 

[jlprk]

The exact number of years doesn't matter; the process lasted many years. The point is that the team didn't move out because the arena was old (that would be about age 30-40). The owners started whining within about 3-5 years after the multi-year construction finished, which was apparently about 1995.

It was not 13 years old when it was 3 years old, as you keep saying, and besides, 13 years old is young. If you are still confused by me, let me spell it out. The year 2018 (your article) is not the year 2008 (the end of the decade of owner demands) is not the year 1998 (the beginning of owner whining about brand new Key Arena) is not years before that (the beginning of owner whining about Seattle Coliseum, only 30 years old).

The owner whiners were never satisfied. Fuck 'em. The complaints came from them, never Sonic fans.

 

[julius]

Okay. Well you were refuting my opinion without substance. Your differing would go further to sell me if it came with some credentials to debunk my opinion.

I didnt say i had to, but when people say someone’s opinion is incorrect, they usually back it up with some facts...

Thought that was just common communication.

how about you present some facts in the first place then?

 

[calvin natt]

I agree with him. I used to think that some fan bases were above reproach, but then the NFL took Chargers away from San Diego. Oh sorry, Alex Spanos took the Chargers away from SD and the league did nothing. San Diego literally is responsible for changng NFL history, offensively, and not even NFL fans gave much of a shit. I could easily see the same thing happening here. "Sorry Portland brahs, just drive up I-5. So sorry." And as long as they have at least one team in the NW, the NBA wouldn't care.

I lived in San Diego for ten years. You cannot compare the stadium situation or the fan base to Portland and the Blazers. Also I think many people think the Charger move is/was a mistake. If that team isn’t really good nobody is coming to those games.

 

[ripcityboy]

I lived in San Diego for ten years. You cannot compare the stadium situation or the fan base to Portland and the Blazers. Also I think many people think the Charger move is/was a mistake. If that team isn’t really good nobody is coming to those games.

My point is that it doesn't matter how much this fan base worships it's team. Heck. Other teams fans know how passionate Blazers fans are. Unless your name is the Lakers or the Celtics, or your city owns the team, like Green Bay, you have every chance of getting fucked if the situation with ownership changes.

 

[Orion Bailey]

how about you present some facts in the first place then?

I presented my opinion and stated it as that. You insinuated my opinion is incorrect. Prove it or move on. Geez...

Edit: i should say teLl me why you disagree or move on. Not just you think im wrong. Tell me why.

 

[kjironman1]

My point is that it doesn't matter how much this fan base worships it's team. Heck. Other teams fans know how passionate Blazers fans are. Unless your name is the Lakers or the Celtics, or your city owns the team, like Green Bay, you have every chance of getting fucked if the situation with ownership changes.

When i make my next Billion i will consider buying the Blazers and see for myself if the team can be moved.