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Natebishop3 said:
You said much better offensively, and clearly better offensively, which is different than just "better."

Nic isn't a scorer. It's not that he can't score, it's that he would rather do other things. He doesn't have a scorers mentality. That doesn't mean that he isn't as talented as Stephenson. Regardless, my original point is that you can't talk about one and not the others. They all have very similar numbers and they all play for one of the top three or four teams in the league, so "winning" isn't an excuse.
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It's because of the conferences. Milsap wouldn't be All Star in West. Neither would Wall, JJ, or Noah.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
But! In the East, a 16 PER guy is like 8th best in the conference! :lol:
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I really do not believe that Barkley believes that Stephenson is more valuable to that team than Hibbert. As in, I think he just wants air time, and is being ridiculous about it.

He keeps saying "leads the NBA in triple-doubles!"

It was hilarious when Ernie Johnson said "yeah, with 3!"

Batum has two triple doubles this year. With one more, would they be spending half the show on Batum's "snub?"

1 Lance Stephenson 3
2 Nicolas Batum 2
3 Kevin Durant 2
4 Stephen Curry 2
 
Natebishop3 said:
You said much better offensively, and clearly better offensively, which is different than just "better."

Nic isn't a scorer. It's not that he can't score, it's that he would rather do other things. He doesn't have a scorers mentality. That doesn't mean that he isn't as talented as Stephenson. Regardless, my original point is that you can't talk about one and not the others. They all have very similar numbers and they all play for one of the top three or four teams in the league, so "winning" isn't an excuse.
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See, this is where I differ.

Nic trying to be a scorer would be disastrous imo. He just doesn't have that ability.

I'll stand by Stephenson having more natural ability that Nic 10x out of 10.
 
Natebishop3 said:
The numbers don't back you up. :dunno:
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This reminds me of the argument a year ago when people were trying to compare Paul George and Batum and that they were close/equal players.

I couldn't believe what I was reading.

You guys have to be ale to step back, put then numbers down and actually access how these players play the game. It was so obvious to me that Paul George was clearly more talented than Batum and couldn't believe people would even try to argue against that.

This is what the Batum/Stephenson situation feels like, just not as severe of difference. They're much closer in terms of being equals, but Stephenson DOES have more natural ability than Nic on the offensive side of the floor.
 
KingSpeed said:
It's because East is weak. Did Joe really deserve it over Lance. It was close. No room for Nic in West this season. Matthews is just as deserving as Nic so it's still a hard call.
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I know why they are having that argument. What I find silly is that Barkley is using the "best record" argument while now acknowledging how weak the East is this year. Playing 2/3 of your games against the East should lead to a better record. The Heat and Pacers basically can coast the entire regular season. It makes OKC's 37-10 record all the more amazing. With that record, the Thunders are "only" 22-8 versus the West, yet 15-2 against the East. They'd be chasing the Bulls 72-win season if they played in the East.
 
PapaG said:
I really do like that ratio, and think it should be used more often. Stephenson's is very good as well. 16/19 is solid for an off-the-ball player. Batum's 1:1 is what you need out of secondary scorers on elite teams, though.
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The ratio of USG / PER is a great shorthand for how frustrated I get with players during the game. :lol:

For example, on one end:
Dorell Wright = 16.8 USG / 9.7 PER = 1.732 "Motherfucker!"
Mo Williams = 20.4 USG / 11.9 PER = 1.714 "Goddammit!"

on the other:
Wesley Matthews = 18.6 USG / 17.3 PER = 1.075 "Awwright Wessy!"
Robin Lopez = 14.1 USG / 16.8 PER = 0.839 "Fuck yeah!"
 
RoyToy said:
See, this is where I differ.

Nic trying to be a scorer would be disastrous imo. He just doesn't have that ability.

I'll stand by Stephenson having more natural ability that Nic 10x out of 10.
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You keep throwing out these generalizations about being a much better offensive player, but there's so much to the offensive side of the ball.

Are you saying he's much better at everything to do with offense? The numbers don't back you up. At all.

Better shooter? Better scorer? Better passer? Better offensive rebounder? Just saying, "he's better" doesn't really mean much.
 
I have to laugh about Lance Stephenson barely getting poked in the face, blowing a few shots, then staggering off the court with help only to return to the game a few minutes later.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
The ratio of USG / PER is a great shorthand for how frustrated I get with players during the game. :lol:

For example, on one end:
Dorell Wright = 16.8 USG / 9.7 PER = 1.732 "Motherfucker!"
Mo Williams = 20.4 USG / 11.9 PER = 1.714 "Goddammit!"

on the other:
Wesley Matthews = 18.6 USG / 17.3 PER = 1.075 "Awwright Wessy!"
Robin Lopez = 14.1 USG / 16.8 PER = 0.839 "Fuck yeah!"
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Haha! I find myself doing the same thing.
 
RoyToy said:
This reminds me of the argument a year ago when people were trying to compare Paul George and Batum and that they were close/equal players.

I couldn't believe what I was reading.

You guys have to be ale to step back, put then numbers down and actually access how these players play the game. It was so obvious to me that Paul George was clearly more talented than Batum and couldn't believe people would even try to argue against that.

This is what the Batum/Stephenson situation feels like, just not as severe of difference. They're much closer in terms of being equals, but Stephenson DOES have more natural ability than Nic on the offensive side of the floor.
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What bearing does that have on this though? We're comparing two very similar players in Lance and Nic. They're glue guys. They do everything. They score, they pass, and they rebound. It's a logical comparison, but only one person here is saying that one of them is "clearly better" than the other.
 
Natebishop3 said:
You keep throwing out these generalizations about being a much better offensive player, but there's so much to the offensive side of the ball.

Are you saying he's much better at everything to do with offense? The numbers don't back you up. At all.

Better shooter? Better scorer? Better passer? Better offensive rebounder? Just saying, "he's better" doesn't really mean much.
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I already said he actually has the ability to create his own shots, as well as being able to get to the rim. He's quick with good handles and has a pretty good crossover.

He also has a toughness to his game that is lacking with Batum.
 
Natebishop3 said:
What bearing does that have on this though? We're comparing two very similar players in Lance and Nic. They're glue guys. They do everything. They score, they pass, and they rebound. It's a logical comparison, but only one person here is saying that one of them is "clearly better" than the other.
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I would give Stephenson the slight edge this year, but it's not like he is awesome, and Batum is a bum. It's the outrage being shown about Stephenson not making the AS team that makes me laugh. Looking at the stats, I can also say that Batum is more deserving as an AS than Leonard, yet no one is making that claim.
 
PapaG said:
I would give Stephenson the slight edge this year, but it's not like he is awesome, and Batum is a bum. It's the outrage being shown about Stephenson not making the AS team that makes me laugh. Looking at the stats, I can also say that Batum is more deserving as an AS than Leonard, yet no one is making that claim.
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And that's all I'm saying. I think it's hilarious that they're saying, "OMG Lance didn't make it" but his numbers are very similar to Nic. Not even a peep about Batum. I think Stephenson is slightly better, and the numbers support that, but it's not as clear cut as some would believe.
 
Natebishop3 said:
And that's all I'm saying. I think it's hilarious that they're saying, "OMG Lance didn't make it" but his numbers are very similar to Nic. Not even a peep about Batum. I think Stephenson is slightly better, and the numbers support that, but it's not as clear cut as some would believe.
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I think it has more to do with being in the east....

I mean for fucks sake Joe Johnson made the team. Does anyone think Joe deserved the spot over Lance?
 
B-Roy said:
I think it has more to do with being in the east....

I mean for fucks sake Joe Johnson made the team. Does anyone think Joe deserved the spot over Lance?
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It's the East. Does anyone think Johnson or Stephenson should even be in All-Star consideration in a real conference?

As a side note, Joe Johnson is probably the worst 6-time AS in NBA history.
 
I think it has more to do with the Pacers being the best team in the NBA this season
 
PapaG said:
It's the East. Does anyone think Johnson or Stephenson should even be in All-Star consideration in a real conference?
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But that's the point isn't it? It's the east. I'm sure no one would give two shits if both guys played in the West.
 
PapaG said:
It's the East. Does anyone think Johnson or Stephenson should even be in All-Star consideration in a real conference?
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I think Stephenson is an alstar this season in the east, don't think he'd make it in the west.
 
B-Roy said:
But that's the point isn't it? It's the east. I'm sure no one would give two shits if both guys played in the West.
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That should be what Chuck and the crew are talking about. How crappy the East is, and how guys from the West like Davis/Dragic/Cousins actually should be in ahead of the bottom 3 slugs from the East.
 
PapaG said:
The Thunder are the best team in the NBA this season.
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Because of Indiana's schedule?

Idk. I think their defense is ridiculous and the offensive has a good starting 5. They have a legit chance to beat the Heat this year.
 
RoyToy said:
Because of Indiana's schedule?

Idk. I think their defense is ridiculous and the offensive has a good starting 5. They have a legit chance to beat the Heat this year.
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They wouldn't be 35-9 playing 2/3 of their games against the West, IMO. OKC is 37-10, and has been missing one of their 2 AS players for a month. This is why I find the entire "Stephenson wuz robbed" debate to be a bit overdramatic.
 
I think they're good enough that it doesn't really matter.

As far as all-star talk, two guys I mentioned tonight having big games.

Goran Dragic - 23pts/6ast on 9-15 shooting

Lance Stephenson - 14pts/10reb/8ast on 6-11 shooting
 
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