Game Thread GAME# 11: BLAZERS @ KINGS - NOVEMBER 12, 2019 - TUESDAY, 7:00 PM, NBATV & NBCSNW

[oldmangrouch]

You understand it is Olshey's job to find players, not Stotts?

Your last statement that we go 1 on 5 nearly every possession is also false.

It's not either/or. The GM and the coach need to be on the same page.

 

[Tince]

Olshey did find him players but it's Stotts responsibility to find the players that will work in the rotation. He's still sticking to Tolliver like he owes him something.

Go look at where the Blazers rank in assists season after the season and get back to me. Proof is in the pudding, Pudding. ;-)

I will not defend Tolliver, because he's a garbage vet min guy. What player should get more PF minutes in his place?

I never said where the Blazers ranked in assists. I said it is false that they go 1 on 5 nearly every possession. There's a big difference between the two.

 

[illmatic99]

When's the players only meeting?

 

[illmatic99]

This is a horrible possession. We have scored of that exact set A LOT over the years. Certainly we can't take one good clip or bad clip and say that is proof of anything.

I think he's pointing out the execution. Look at how useless Whiteside is there. Not even making contact on his supposed screens.

 

[Tince]

He's not a terrible coach. He's average...

He's a nice likeable guy so his reputation gets elevated because of that. He generally has great repor with they players.

However, he's not a detail guy. He doesn't have the team focus on the 'little things' to make a good team great. Admittedly - its extremely hard to get from a good team to a great team

I agree with your first two points.

Statements like the last one you make are the ones that are major head scratchers to me. What inside knowledge do you have of the details (or lack of) that he communicates with the team? We got to the WCF last year. Do you think he knew all these details last year but magically forgot them over the summer?

 

[wizenheimer]

The irony of the Blazer situation, is that Stotts has tremendous job security and injuries have given him a bullet-proof reason to experiment with the younger players. Instead, he is sacrificing the potential good to the proven mediocre (or worse). If he was desperately trying to save his job, I might conjure up some sympathy. Instead, I am just disgusted.

making it worse, in my view, is that Dame came in averaging 38.6 minutes and he played 38 minutes tonight, 2 nights after playing 44 minutes, and there's a trip home tonight followed by a game tomorrow night. And following that is a road trip of 6 games in 9 nights with a back2back

Stotts is grinding Dame down just to post a losing record. He's burning thru energy that Dame will need later in the season. it's fucking stupid

 

[Tince]

I think he's pointing out the execution. Look at how useless Whiteside is there. Not even making contact on his supposed screens.

I can't speak for Bones, but I believe he defends Whiteside to some degree, so it would be off brand for him to be trying to make this point, especially given the message he quoted. I do agree with you that Whiteside set a horrible screen in that clip.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I will not defend Tolliver, because he's a garbage vet min guy. What player should get more PF minutes in his place?

Skal? Hoard? Mix it up. It doesn't mean those guys will work out but the guys we are using definitely aren't so have an open mind and try something new, coach.

I never said where the Blazers ranked in assists. I said it is false that they go 1 on 5 nearly every possession. There's a big difference between the two.

Disagreed. If we weren't going 1 on 5 all the time we'd be getting more assists. And it isn't just this season where we're not getting assists, it's last season and the one befoer that. This coach doesn't encourage ball movement.

 

[Tince]

making it worse, in my view, is that Dame came in averaging 38.6 minutes and he played 38 minutes tonight, 2 nights after playing 44 minutes, and there's a trip home tonight followed by a game tomorrow night. And following that is a road trip of 6 games in 9 nights with a back2back

Stotts is grinding Dame down just to post a losing record. He's burning thru energy that Dame will need later in the season. it's fucking stupid

How many minutes would you like Dame to play? If we reduce his minutes are you ok with us losing more games? Yes is an acceptable answer, I'm just curious if that's where you are at with this season.

 

[oldmangrouch]

BTW, I think we can all agree that Olshey took a huge gamble on Whiteside. The obvious explanation is that he thought the combination of a contract year and Dame's leadership would make a difference. Can't blame Stotts for that, and I can't even blame Olshey too much.

 

[OneSport3]

1) He's earned the trust/respect of the teams best player (huge in the NBA)
2) Found a way to get a team to the WCF with one of the worst starting forward combos in the NBA.
3) Coached a team projected to win about 30 games to the 2nd round on the NBA playoffs.

I could make claims about how great he is gameplanning or what he does at practice, but I don't have access to their practices and timeouts like some people here must to validate their claims.

1. Michael Jordan loved Doug Collins but didn’t win the title until the Bulls replaced him with Phil Jackson. The Warriors core loved Mark Jackson but didn’t win the title until the Warriors replaced him with Steve Kerr. As a franchise you have to make the tough decisions that the player wouldn’t make.

2. Actually, if Stotts actual plan had worked, there’s no way they get to the WCF last year. He wanted to lose the last game of the season against the Kings on purpose but Ant went off and foiled his plans. Had Portland actually lost, they would have faced the Warriors in the 2nd round.

Also funny, in the 4OT Game 3 vs the Nuggets, everyone was praising Stotts and giving him credit for putting Hood in the game in the 4th OT. But in the post-game, he himself admitted that it really wasn't his decision. Mo had calf cramps that forced Stotts to put Hood in.

Also, your points are more results than coaching strengths/characteristics.

 

[Tince]

Disagreed. If we weren't going 1 on 5 all the time we'd be getting more assists. And it isn't just this season where we're not getting assists, it's last season and the one befoer that. This coach doesn't encourage ball movement.

Your definition of "all the time" must be different from mine.

What do you mean by all the time? 100%? 90%? 50%?
What do you mean by 1 on 5? A zero pass 1-4 flat possession? A play that ends with an isolation?

 

[BonesJones]

This is a horrible possession. We have scored of that exact set A LOT over the years. Certainly we can't take one good clip or bad clip and say that is proof of anything.

We've scored off it by having one of our stsr guards catch the ball and make a play from the perimeter. Bunch of wasted, perimeter movement to get to that point. Easy set to shut down if scouted correctly.

 

[Tince]

1. Michael Jordan loved Doug Collins but didn’t win the title until the Bulls replaced him with Phil Jackson. The Warriors core loved Mark Jackson but didn’t win the title until the Warriors replaced him with Steve Kerr. As a franchise you have to make the tough decisions that the player wouldn’t make.

2. Actually, if Stotts actual plan had worked, there’s no way they get to the WCF last year. He wanted to lose the last game of the season against the Kings on purpose but Ant went off and foiled his plans. Had Portland actually lost, they would have faced the Warriors in the 2nd round.

Also, your points are more results than coaching strengths.

1. The best player to ever play the game isn't on this roster, so I'm not sure how that's valid. I could point to many failed coaching changes in the history of the NBA. Neither would prove anything.

2. You're talking about his strategy to not try to win the last game of the regular season as proof he doesn't know how to come up with a good gameplan? Those two things are completely separate.

3. Since none of us have insight to what happens in practice and in timeouts, aren't we using results to make assumptions for if he's a decent coach or not?

 

[oldmangrouch]

How many minutes would you like Dame to play? If we reduce his minutes are you ok with us losing more games? Yes is an acceptable answer, I'm just curious if that's where you are at with this season.

Good point. Any course the Blazers take will have drawbacks.

 

[bobf]

Kanter, Curry, Aminu, Harkless, even Leoanard are above average NBA players. We replaced good players with garbage, except Whiteside who is above average. As a result, we suck. Get used to it. When Nurk and Zach and Hood return we will be better, but nothing like last year.

 

[illmatic99]

BTW, I think we can all agree that Olshey took a huge gamble on Whiteside. The obvious explanation is that he thought the combination of a contract year and Dame's leadership would make a difference. Can't blame Stotts for that, and I can't even blame Olshey too much.

I can't stand Whiteside, but even I don't care about the Hassan addition that much because we didn't give up anything. Meyers is useless and we benched Moe (and Aminu) in favor of Hood and Zach last year in the playoffs. It made sense to take a risk there to see if we could at least reproduce Kanter's impact til Nurk returned.

What eats at me is the lack of forward depth we built around them. Tolliver is GARBAGE. We can find G League players who are 1000x better than him. We let Layman (who is closing games in Minny, btw) walk in favor of signing this scrub???? Mario was supposed to be a fourth string reclamation project. Him starting is an affront to this fanbase. And then we get a washed up Pau who isn't even close to returning from his injury? Then we decide to play Hood at PF more and exacerbate his injury risk even further because of the lack of forward depth?

I blame Neil more than anyone for this shit start, but Terry also needs to realize he has different personnel and try to manage their strengths instead of running the same shit he has for 4 yrs now. And he has to hold players accountable for making mistakes and not being prepared or executing poorly. At least show SOME emotion for Godsakes.

 

[BonesJones]

1. The best player to ever play the game isn't on this roster, so I'm not sure how that's valid. I could point to many failed coaching changes in the history of the NBA. Neither would prove anything.

2. You're talking about his strategy to not try to win the last game of the regular season as proof he doesn't know how to come up with a good gameplan? Those two things are completely separate.

3. Since none of us have insight to what happens in practice and in timeouts, aren't we using results to make assumptions for if he's a decent coach or not?

Not using results, we're watching the game. Watching our sets. Our sets suck but people think they're good because Dame and CJ create something out of nothing on a consistent basis. We literally don't get interior shots of our sets.

 

[Tince]

We've scored off it by having one of our stsr guards catch the ball and make a play from the perimeter. Bunch of wasted, perimeter movement to get to that point. Easy set to shut down if scouted correctly.

You're a basketball guy, I assume you rewatch games, and I'm sure you've seen all the variations we run off this set. We've used it to get lobs at the rim when guys chase over the top, we use it to get open 3's when defenders go under, we use it to slip the big when teams switch, and we've used it with Nurk/LMA to run plays with them at the elbow.

You know this stuff.

 

[wizenheimer]

How many minutes would you like Dame to play? If we reduce his minutes are you ok with us losing more games? Yes is an acceptable answer, I'm just curious if that's where you are at with this season.

absolutely I'm ok with it. I'd rather have the Blazers at 3-8 right now with Dame averaging 35 minutes than at 4-7 with Dame averaging 39. I mean for chrissakes, Dame played 40.2 minutes and scored 60 points, at home, against a team with a losing record, and the Blazers still lost.

I didn't believe the prevailing narrative about this year's team being better than last years, and after watching this team for 11 games, it's obviously not more talented. Yeah, injuries have an impact but just about every team has a significant injury or two. The Kings were missing two starters tonight and Dedmon only played 7 minutes because of a bad ankle. Stotts needs to think long term and going all out to win games early (and failing) is going to carry a cost later in the season

 

[Tince]

Not using results, we're watching the game. Watching our sets. Our sets suck but people think they're good because Dame and CJ create something out of nothing on a consistent basis. We literally don't get interior shots of our sets.

I respect you even when we disagree, but your previous comment makes me think you don't always watch the variations of our sets.

We currently get very few shots for our horrible screen setting and offensive inept front court players.I'm thankful for that. Dame's percentage at the rim this season is off the charts high.

 

[illmatic99]

The national media is noticing.

 

[Tince]

absolutely I'm ok with it. I'd rather have the Blazers at 3-8 right now with Dame averaging 35 minutes than at 4-7 with Dame averaging 39. I mean for chrissakes, Dame played 40.2 minutes and scored 60 points, at home, against a team with a losing record, and the Blazers still lost.

I didn't believe the prevailing narrative about this year's team being better than last years, and after watching this team for 11 games, it's obviously not more talented. Yeah, injuries have an impact but just about every team has a significant injury or two. The Kings were missing two starters tonight and Dedmon only played 7 minutes because of a bad ankle. Stotts needs to think long term and going all out to win games early (and failing) is going to carry a cost later in the season

Totally respect that opinion. We're in Dame's prime years and I think most feel we need to go all-in, but get why some may be ready to wave the white towel on this year and preserve some mileage. I don't think Olshey, Stotts, or Dame are anywhere close to doing this, but if we end up 15 games under .500, I would hope it happens.

 

[Blazers1977]

He's got COTY votes 2 out of the last 4 years. He got 2nd one of the years. I wouldn't bring up COTY as a measure of how good a coach is, but please name all the horrible coaches that have got votes 2 out of the last 4 years.

Stotts gets blamed by blazer fans who are frustrated that we are a small market team and no free agents want to play here. Stotts has done well with what he has. I question a lot of moves he does but I’m humble enough to know that he pooped something out this morning that knows more about basketball than me.

 

[illmatic99]

absolutely I'm ok with it. I'd rather have the Blazers at 3-8 right now with Dame averaging 35 minutes than at 4-7 with Dame averaging 39. I mean for chrissakes, Dame played 40.2 minutes and scored 60 points, at home, against a team with a losing record, and the Blazers still lost.

I didn't believe the prevailing narrative about this year's team being better than last years, and after watching this team for 11 games, it's obviously not more talented. Yeah, injuries have an impact but just about every team has a significant injury or two. The Kings were missing two starters tonight and Dedmon only played 7 minutes because of a bad ankle. Stotts needs to think long term and going all out to win games early (and failing) is going to carry a cost later in the season

Stotts is coaching like a guy who is on the hotseat right now. And he signed a freaking extension 5 months ago.

ugh

 

[brooklynballer]

Honest question, is Stotts’ job in jeopardy at all if the team continues to play at a 0.360 clip? Should it be in jeopardy?

I’m not sure what kind of dirt Stotts has on Olshey to have this type of job security, but hopefully Jody Allen sees through this BS and fires both of them. For just once in Dame’s NBA career I’d like to see him coached by a semi-competent coach who can help maximize his talents (and yes, I do think Dame can improve his game from where he’s at currently to be a Top 5 player with improved defence and better passing). It just saddens me that Dame’s prime is being wasted playing for a coach who will never get the team to play at or near a championship level. When was the last time you said to yourself, gee Coach Stotts really outcoached the opposing coach? Think back to his entire tenure with the Blazers... has it ever happened? I can think of numerous examples of him being outcoached though. Shit, he was outcoached tonight by a guy (Walton) with a career 0.398 winning percentage. Let that sink in. For all you Stotts fanboys, would Stotts have a better than 0.500 record if it weren’t for Dame?

 

[OneSport3]

1. The best player to ever play the game isn't on this roster, so I'm not sure how that's valid. I could point to many failed coaching changes in the history of the NBA. Neither would prove anything.

2. You're talking about his strategy to not try to win the last game of the regular season as proof he doesn't know how to come up with a good gameplan? Those two things are completely separate.

3. Since none of us have insight to what happens in practice and in timeouts, aren't we using results to make assumptions for if he's a decent coach or not?

1. However, the best player to ever play for the Blazers IS on this roster.

2. In the 4OT Game 3 vs the Nuggets, everyone was praising Stotts and giving him credit for putting Hood in the game in the 4th OT. But in the post-game, he himself admitted that it really wasn't his decision. Mo had calf cramps that forced Stotts to put Hood in.

3. We don't need insight to practices or timeouts, everything is playing out in actual gameplay. Nothing changes even with personnel turnover. When Batum was here, people said "he's not a starting caliber SF. If Stotts had a real SF then watch." Then it was Aminu, now Bazemore. It's the same results. There have been 2 constants over that time period, Stotts and Dame. Dame has been improving each year while Stotts hasn't been improving.

 

[Tince]

Stotts gets blamed by blazer fans who are frustrated that we are a small market team and no free agents want to play here. Stotts has done well with what he has. I question a lot of moves he does but I’m humble enough to know that he pooped something out this morning that knows more about basketball than me.

Spot on, 100%, including that this team (including Stotts) do some head scratching things!

 

[Tince]

We don't need insight to practices or timeouts, everything is playing out in actual gameplay. Nothing changes even with personnel turnover. When Batum was here, people said "he's not a starting caliber SF. If Stotts had a real SF then watch." Then it was Aminu, now Bazemore. It's the same results. There have been 2 constants over that time period, Stotts and Dame. Dame has been improving each year while Stotts hasn't been improving.

Nothing has changed from the game plan that got us to the WCF?

How are you coming to the conclusion Dame is improving but Stotts isn't? If you don't see changes, is it possible that they're happening, but you just don't see them?

 

[Blazers1977]

Nothing has changed from the game plan that got us to the WCF?

How are you coming to the conclusion Dame is improving but Stotts isn't? If you don't see changes, is it possible that they're happening, but you just don't see them?

Interesting how Stotts gets 0 credit for how good Lillard has turned out, even though Stotts has been Lillard’s only NBA coach and Lillard praises him highly.