Game Thread GAME# 23: MAGIC @ BLAZERS - FEBRUARY 9, 2021 - TUESDAY, 7:00, NBCSNW

[MickZagger]

He wasn't back in the mix.

I know I’m excited for him to come back. He was just hitting his stride when he got sidelined. I’d prefer him playing over Jones Jr.

It was just a random thought that popped into my head.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Stotts admitted in the postgame interview that he is fine with Melo isos and inefficient fadeaway 2 pt shots. He said, “Melo has earned the right to play HIS game.”

And so have Lillard, and CJ and Trent and even Anf! Am I missing anyone?

 

[julius]

I know I’m excited for him to come back. He was just hitting his stride when he got sidelined. I’d prefer him playing over Jones Jr.

It was just a random thought that popped into my head.

Gotcha.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Bro, do you have any idea how much Melo's teammates love him? Obviously not with posts like this. It's comical. THEY FUCKING LOVE HIM! They want to see him make history. How are is that to understand?

Well, how about REAL FUCKING BASKETBALL FANS!!?? Do they love watching him?

 

[Tince]

Bro, do you have any idea how much Melo's teammates love him? Obviously not with posts like this. It's comical. THEY FUCKING LOVE HIM! They want to see him make history. How are is that to understand?

Can you think of another example of a guy who was so loved by his teammates, coaches, and front office, yet hated by the fans, as much as Melo?

I'm not on the love or hate side personally, but the extremes are jarring.

 

[handiman]

Can you think of another example of a guy who was so loved by his teammates, coaches, and front office, yet hated by the fans, as much as Melo?

I'm not on the love or hate side personally, but the extremes are jarring.

My only thought would be Meyers, but the coaches ran hot and cold on him.

 

[Tince]

My only thought would be Meyers, but the coaches ran hot and cold on him.

Yeah, I never got the impression Stotts was too high on Meyers.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Can you think of another example of a guy who was so loved by his teammates, coaches, and front office, yet hated by the fans, as much as Melo?

I'm not on the love or hate side personally, but the extremes are jarring.

A Blazer? No. But Terrell Owens has had a similar rep.

 

[Strenuus]

Can you think of another example of a guy who was so loved by his teammates, coaches, and front office, yet hated by the fans, as much as Melo?

I'm not on the love or hate side personally, but the extremes are jarring.

Meyers.

That was easy.

 

[THE HCP]

I just cant understand why. What history does melo have here to get that treatment?

Most of these guys grew up watching him. He was a superstar for years. He has been an amazing teammate and tutor since Day 1. With my limited interactions with him, he i cool as hell. I know because he hasn't been playing well, people want to hate him or find a reason to, but it jut isn't like that with him. They all respect and love this dude and last night wanted to help him reach a new milestone.

 

[wizenheimer]

for me, I compare the addition of Melo to when Portland added Pippen. Pippen was all about making the team better, and played that way. Way too much of Melo's game seems geared toward his own numbers and his 'legacy'. I don't give a shit about Melo's legacy, but the apparent fact that the Blazers do, to the detriment of the team, is what is irritating.

 

[THE HCP]

for me, I compare the addition of Melo to when Portland added Pippen. Pippen was all about making the team better, and played that way. Way too much of Melo's game seems geared toward his own numbers and his 'legacy'. I don't give a shit about Melo's legacy, but the apparent fact that the Blazers do, to the detriment of the team, is what is irritating.

You’re comparing Pippen’s game to Melo’s? One is a scorer and one a facilitator. Totally different games.

 

[blazerkor]

This is not a "Structural" injury. Ankle, Knee, Hip Joint, Shoulder, Back. Those are injuries that cause other injuries. Bruises don't generally effect you in those ways. Lillard ain't sitting out for a bruise.

Muscular injuries (due to the fact that muscles hold the structure in place and to the fact that they can lead to difference in the mechanics of player movement) definitely can and have led to many serious sports injuries. That being said, I'm not worried about Lillar's injury at all.

 

[blazerkor]

Can you think of another example of a guy who was so loved by his teammates, coaches, and front office, yet hated by the fans, as much as Melo?

I'm not on the love or hate side personally, but the extremes are jarring.

I don't blame the players for hero worshiping the guy. He's been their hero for a long time. I do blame coaches and the front office for doing the same. That's the problem with this team. There is too much attention given to how players feel, at every level of the franchise and not enough given to winning.

 

[SIeepwalker]

I think Elleby can ball

 

[kjironman1]

Muscular injuries (due to the fact that muscles hold the structure in place and to the fact that they can lead to difference in the mechanics of player movement) definitely can and have led to many serious sports injuries. That being said, I'm not worried about Lillar's injury at all.

Ligaments and tendons hold the structure together not muscles. A bruise would not hold me out of a game. Never once in all the years I played organized sports would I have ever allowed my team to have to go without me because of a "Bruise". I'm even more certain that Damian Lillard would not either. That being said I'm not worried about his injury either.

 

[Tince]

Meyers.

That was easy.

You think Stotts loved Meyers? I always got the exact opposite feel.

 

[Tince]

I don't blame the players for hero worshiping the guy. He's been their hero for a long time. I do blame coaches and the front office for doing the same. That's the problem with this team. There is too much attention given to how players feel, at every level of the franchise and not enough given to winning.

Just so I undertand:

You think the less attention the organization gives to how players feel would increase our chances of winning? I would guess Olshey would say the exact opposite, but I don't have any real way of knowing his feelings. Has he said something about wanting to give attention to feelings?

 

[wizenheimer]

You’re comparing Pippen’s game to Melo’s? One is a scorer and one a facilitator. Totally different games.

to be accurate one is an inefficient me-first scorer, and the other was a team-first facilitator who played great defense.



obviously, Pippen had the advantage of playing on a better team, but the differences between their respective impacts is stark. The only knock against Pippen was turnovers

ratings differential: Melo -11.0....Pippen +6.0
winshares/48: Melo 0.37....Pippen .137
box plus/minus: Melo -3.3....Pippen +3.9

points added by Field Goals Attempts made above league average: Melo -40.7....Pippen +39.6
points added by True Shot Attempts made above league average: Melo -34.3....Pippen +20.1

to me, the flaws Pippen had were significantly offset by his strengths. The opposite is true of Melo

 

[wizenheimer]

Just so I undertand:

You think the less attention the organization gives to how players feel would increase our chances of winning? I would guess Olshey would say the exact opposite, but I don't have any real way of knowing his feelings. Has he said something about wanting to give attention to feelings?

here's a radical idea: Dame isn't the GM and he isn't the coach. Dame should stick to his job. Conversely, Olshey and Stotts should do their jobs and should not be shielded from accountability by the "what Dame wants" narrative...although perhaps most of the shielding happens in this forum because invariably when somebody suggest some changes, some poster here will deflect by saying "Dame wouldn't like it". Discussion killing deflection

as a Blazer fan, I love Dame. But I sure as hell don't want him having any significant control over who his teammates are. I think the fact that Blevins is Portland's only TW contract is ridiculous

 

[Tince]

here's a radical idea: Dame isn't the GM and he isn't the coach. Dame should stick to his job. Conversely, Olshey and Stotts should do their jobs and should not be shielded from accountability by the "what Dame wants" narrative...although perhaps most of the shielding happens in this forum because invariably when somebody suggest some changes, some poster here will deflect by saying "Dame wouldn't like it". Discussion killing deflection

as a Blazer fan, I love Dame. But I sure as hell don't want him having any significant control over who his teammates are. I think the fact that Blevins is Portland's only TW contract is ridiculous

I agree with you on all fronts about people doing there jobs.

I want to see Dame be the PG & leader. I think he can do that and I think he's proven he can adjust to new teammates.

I know there is this narrative that Olshey or Stotts have totally abandoned their philosophy to make Melo happy, but I'm not sure how were positive this to be true. The Stotts only runs ISO and doesn't play his young guy narrative started way before Melo, so I'm not sure he's changed that any more for Melo. I'm not sure what Olshey or Stotts stand to gain by allowing Melo to do whatever they want, so I'm not sure why we're assuming that is what is happening.

I haven't seen facts that say Olshey or Stotts care more about feelings than winning. That's the narrative, it's a good story, it could be true, but it's just a theory at this point; at least in my eyes.

 

[blazerkor]

I agree with you on all fronts about people doing there jobs.

I want to see Dame be the PG & leader. I think he can do that and I think he's proven he can adjust to new teammates.

I know there is this narrative that Olshey or Stotts have totally abandoned their philosophy to make Melo happy, but I'm not sure how were positive this to be true. The Stotts only runs ISO and doesn't play his young guy narrative started way before Melo, so I'm not sure he's changed that any more for Melo. I'm not sure what Olshey or Stotts stand to gain by allowing Melo to do whatever they want, so I'm not sure why we're assuming that is what is happening.

I haven't seen facts that say Olshey or Stotts care more about feelings than winning. That's the narrative, it's a good story, it could be true, but it's just a theory at this point; at least in my eyes.

You're right there is only circumstantial evidence to support the narrative. I look to things like Olshey saying that CJ is untouchable and year after year saying if this team just gets a chance to play healthy... I look at Stotts saying that Melo's career has earned him the right to playing time and to always have a green light. I also look at the lack of public accountability in the face of glaring problems.

Then there is the fact that Stotts is still here, CJ is still here and we haven't done much of anything with the seemingly untouchable combo of Olshey/Stotts/Dame/CJ. Again the fact that there is never a hint of even constructive criticism from Stotts for almost any of his players and from Olshey to Stotts in public stinks of pandering to the feelings of others in the organization. I don't want assholes running the show here that are constantly throwing people under the bus. I happen to love what Dame does but if you have an on court leader who is all positivity you have to have people off the court somewhere in between Thibs and Stotts. GMs always have to be pragmatic above anything else.

 

[Tince]

You're right there is only circumstantial evidence to support the narrative. I look to things like Olshey saying that CJ is untouchable and year after year saying if this team just gets a chance to play healthy... I look at Stotts saying that Melo's career has earned him the right to playing time and to always have a green light. I also look at the lack of public accountability in the face of glaring problems.

Then there is the fact that Stotts is still here, CJ is still here and we haven't done much of anything with the seemingly untouchable combo of Olshey/Stotts/Dame/CJ. Again the fact that there is never a hint of even constructive criticism from Stotts for almost any of his players and from Olshey to Stotts in public stinks of pandering to the feelings of others in the organization. I don't want assholes running the show here that are constantly throwing people under the bus. I happen to love what Dame does but if you have an on court leader who is all positivity you have to have people off the court somewhere in between Thibs and Stotts. GMs always have to be pragmatic above anything else.

All well thought out point that could be right.

I don't see a lack of public critism from Stotts to his players, Olshey to Stotts, or vice versa as a negative sign. To me, organizations that air their dirty laundry in public are far more flawed.

I think Olshey not making big moves or sticking with his guys long term could be a sign of things outside of him caring about their feelings. He might truly think his first moves are far better than they are, he sells that to ownership, and wants to ride it out as along as possible until he gets called on his bluff. I don't get the warm and fuzzy vibe from Olshey or Stotts for that matter.

 

[bobf]

I looked at Simons #'s, and his PER 36's are actually just as impressive as Trents, and in some cases, more impressive.

Neither one is shooting a great FG% (41.5 vs 39), but their 3 FG% is comparable (43 vs 40), and their 2 pt FG% are both sub 40 (39 vs 37) and their effective FG% is similar (54 vs 53). Points, rebounds, assists and blocks favor Simons, and steals favor Trent.

The biggest difference is minutes (Trent averages over 12 more minutes a game).

Wow you’re right. Both have about the same BPM -2.5 and -2.3. I guess Trents gawdy 3pt % and the hype made me think he had much better numbers than that. For Ant that’s a good number given that he was something like -6.0 earlier this year.

Those aren’t good BPMs though for players with such nice 3pt percentages so without looking into the numbers I assume it’s due to poor rebounding and not getting the the FT line much. Good news for Ant, bad news for Trent. Seems like we’ve been overrating him. Starting to look like we should not have written Ant off.

 

[handiman]

You think Stotts loved Meyers? I always got the exact opposite feel.

I think he did early on, but Stotts lost confidence in Meyers mid-career. Meyers acknowledged in his last exit interview here that he went through a bad period emotionally and it affected his ability to perform, and that his final season in Portland was an attempt to get back the coaches' confidence in him.

 

[julius]

I think he did early on, but Stotts lost confidence in Meyers mid-career. Meyers acknowledged in his last exit interview here that he went through a bad period emotionally and it affected his ability to perform, and that his final season in Portland was an attempt to get back the coaches' confidence in him.

Meyers is always trying to gain approval for something. He's desperate for validation for whatever he does. Some people can deal with that, while others get tired of someone always seeking approval for everything they do.

 

[handiman]

Meyers is always trying to gain approval for something. He's desperate for validation for whatever he does. Some people can deal with that, while others get tired of someone always seeking approval for everything they do.

Everyone wants approval and validation to some degree. Some are better at hiding it or coping with it, while others are more willing to acknowledge it.

Vanity isn't a great quality by any means, but did you ever hear a bad word said about Meyers by anyone other than fans? IMO, that speaks more about the people who have a problem with him than it says about Meyers himself.

 

[julius]

Everyone wants approval and validation to some degree. Some are better at hiding it or coping with it, while others are more willing to acknowledge it.

Vanity isn't a great quality by any means, but did you ever hear a bad word said about Meyers by anyone other than fans? IMO, that speaks more about the people who have a problem with him than it says about Meyers himself.

Did you ever hear a bad word said about Ha Seung Jin or Ruben Boumtje Boumjte?

 

[THE HCP]

to be accurate one is an inefficient me-first scorer, and the other was a team-first facilitator who played great defense.

View attachment 36809

obviously, Pippen had the advantage of playing on a better team, but the differences between their respective impacts is stark. The only knock against Pippen was turnovers

ratings differential: Melo -11.0....Pippen +6.0
winshares/48: Melo 0.37....Pippen .137
box plus/minus: Melo -3.3....Pippen +3.9

points added by Field Goals Attempts made above league average: Melo -40.7....Pippen +39.6
points added by True Shot Attempts made above league average: Melo -34.3....Pippen +20.1

to me, the flaws Pippen had were significantly offset by his strengths. The opposite is true of Melo

No shit! Thats what I just said. there games aren't completely different. Scottie was one of my favorite players ever. As far as TOs......the guys creating for others always have a ton right? Look at Kidd and Nash.

 

[wizenheimer]

No shit! Thats what I just said. there games aren't completely different. Scottie was one of my favorite players ever. As far as TOs......the guys creating for others always have a ton right? Look at Kidd and Nash.

yes....facilitators usually have a higher turnover rate. They are busy trying to see the court and find open passing lanes. Passing will create more turnovers than dribbling....unless you're Aminu